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Old 01-21-2009, 10:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

I am feeding my puppy by Nature Organics (all stages i.e. ages) with slightly lower protein than other puppy formulas, then adding whey powder with a small amount of warm water to paste it to food. Anyone have an opinion of this? I have gotten slack for the "milk product" but find it to be the best source of pure and complete protein.
-Shane

at 5 1/2 weeks

at 9 weeks (Thats where she was hiding that leaf!)
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

If you are looking for more protein, you could add an egg a couple of times a week.
Why don't you just get a kibble with more protein in it?
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

If you feeding http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/product ... nicdog.php

The 28% protein forumula, you are fine and can just feed the kibble without adding any extra protein. The pup should not have any higher than 28% due to growth. I would suggest adding in a fish oil (salmon oil, some sardines) to the kibble to build the immue system. Pups at early ages have weak immune systems and adding the omega 3 & 6s help build it up.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

I wouldn't really be that concerned about adding extra protein to the diet..Young pups just don't need it..A good balanced diet, with the fish oil added is all you need...Oh well of course there are the "extras", an egg occasionally, cooked chicken, ground beef, sardines, carrots, green beans, banana, apple & yogurt...i rotate all those into my dogs food
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

Thanks for all the information guys/gals. I had found this site (http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/puppy-protein/) on protein for dogs. This is the information that gave me the feeling it was ok to offer. I also have had good experience and understanding of "whey" being the best balanced protein for human consumption, and not for bodybuilding, for any human needing a stronger immune system to the already healthy. We use it in our family with one having an autoimmune disease, and I have blood sugar issues due to a bad growing up diet...so I take the diet issue very serious.
Zhanna, adding more kibble will usually increase fat and I want to keep this to a min. so that's why I staid away from the puppy formulas, plus I wanted an all organic food so my selection was limited.
Hanna, there is flaxseed oil in the food, but I did notice no fish oils, being organic I assume it felt better with amega 3 from flax? Also as an organic, the 3,6,9 ratio should be a little better in the meats due to more free grazing and better feeding habits than a non-organic industrialized product., again that is an assumption based on what I believe to be true...anyone can curb my belief with some good information though.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

I don't see anything in that article about giving whey protein. I do agree with the fact they say quality of protein is more important than quantity. And while whey protein is from cow's milk, it is usually heated and processed and pumped full of loads of other supplements and vitamins that you really have no idea if are beneficial or harmful to your dog. To me it is an unnatural product, quality protein to me is lean animal meat. Also how would you even know how much to supplement? One scoop of protein is a lot, I know because I take that stuff myself. The most important ratio to dogs is the calcium:phosphorus levels, and if you mess with that too much you can do some serious damage to your dog. For instance, if you were to just feed raw animal meat and no bone, dogs will leech calcium from their bones and this can absolutely be fatal and irreversible. So it's not just about quality protein, it's about the entire package. I would not mess with your puppy's diet, while the protein controversy rages on, theres no doubting these are the fragile stages of development and no unecessary risks should be taken. You may gravely regret any experimentation.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

Sully, I felt we where at stage 1 when it came to the information, but the process you reference for whey protein is not my product (we pay for good quality). Also, yes, the article says nothing about "whey", but extensive studies for human consumption gave me the facts on this being the "quality". Also, in breeding other small animals, I understand downsizing the ingredients, so no i don't give her a human scoop and it is regulated and very minimal. With the balance and quality of food so good in the kibble, no I will not alter any calcium:phosphorus or D levels.
Sorry, don't want to get into a heated debate if anyone takes it at that...but I do love a productive debate and honest opinions are welcome...don't sit back and think that guys an idiot, tell me if you think so but just know I have placed a lot of study into this and still feel I need to learn more.

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Originally Posted by sully
I don't see anything in that article about giving whey protein. I do agree with the fact they say quality of protein is more important than quantity. And while whey protein is from cow's milk, it is usually heated and processed and pumped full of loads of other supplements and vitamins that you really have no idea if are beneficial or harmful to your dog. To me it is an unnatural product, quality protein to me is lean animal meat. Also how would you even know how much to supplement? One scoop of protein is a lot, I know because I take that stuff myself. The most important ratio to dogs is the calcium:phosphorus levels, and if you mess with that too much you can do some serious damage to your dog. For instance, if you were to just feed raw animal meat and no bone, dogs will leech calcium from their bones and this can absolutely be fatal and irreversible. So it's not just about quality protein, it's about the entire package. I would not mess with your puppy's diet, while the protein controversy rages on, theres no doubting these are the fragile stages of development and no unecessary risks should be taken. You may gravely regret any experimentation.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

Unless you have a live culture coming out of a jar, whey is all pretty much processed and treated the same way. Additional supplements vary of course. Maybe you found some special whey or something I'm unaware of, I don't know. But if you are adding in whey, you definitely are messing with calcium:phosophorus levels. Whey is high in calcium and phosphorus levels vary greatly between whey products. You are experimenting with your dog's diet and really with this much thought into it, I really wonder why you just wouldn't go to a completely raw diet. The food you are giving has nice catch phrases like "organic" and "nature" but theres really nothing special about it, its quite grain heavy and low in meat content so I think instead of worrying about adding in whey, why not just feed an all natural diet? Wolves don't need whey protein and neither do dogs, but if you feel like experimenting with your dog it certainly is your right to do so.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

Flax seeds is not as beneficial as fish oils. Fish oils are natural and come from an animal. Dogs systems were deisgned to break down animal proteins. While Flax is ok, its takes them twice as longer to break it down and convert because its plant protein.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: by Nature Organics / Whey Protein

Sully, I will give you some facts on Whey Protein(this is copy paste info), then go into detail of product I use...

Whey has the highest biological value (BV) of any known protein. The protein fraction in whey (approximately 10% of the total dry solids within whey) comprises four major protein fractions and six minor protein fractions. The major protein fractions in whey are beta-lactoglobulin, alpha-lactalbumin, bovine serum albumin and immunoglobulins. Each of these components has important disease-fighting effects.[citation needed] In addition, whey protein is easily digestible.
Whey protein typically comes in three major forms: concentrate, isolate, and hydrolysate.
Concentrates contain a low level of fat and cholesterol but, in general, have higher levels of bioactive compounds, and carbohydrates in the form of lactose they are 29%-89% protein by weight.
Isolates are processed to remove the fat, and lactose, but are usually lower in bioactive compounds as well they are 90%+ protein by weight. Both of these types are mild to slightly milky in taste.
Hydrolysates are predigested, partially hydrolyzed whey proteins that, as a consequence, are more easily absorbed, but their cost is generally higher. Whey protein hydrolysate also tends to taste quite different than other forms of whey protein, usually in a way that many find undesirable but can be masked when used in beverages.
More than other protein supplements, whey protein powder is commonly used by bodybuilders and other athletes to accelerate muscle development and aid in recovery. Some individuals with suppressed or otherwise abnormal immune systems or degenerative diseases use undenatured bioactive whey proteins to increase their antioxidant levels. These native whey proteins are a good source of cysteine, a conditionally essential amino acid, which is the rate-limiting factor for the body's production of glutathione, an important antioxidant.
In a study, it was found that whey supplements may prevent blood sugar spikes after high-carbohydrate meals, which is useful for diabetics.

The protein I use is by MRM and was recommended not as a bodybuilding product but as a nutritional supplement. It also carries enzymes for converting protein into amino acids. This product was also recommended by a doctor for at least human consumption due to its processing that makes it easy on the system. Furthermore, the process never involves cooking or heat that damages the properties of many nutrients including proteins.

Besides all my reasons to believe I am giving her a good product, I will be looking more into Calcium and ratio as this is a very debated topic as well and one I have overlooked in doing any serious study on other than ratios involving UV, D-3 for a completely different animal and topic all together. I would be interested if you have any more details on that subject.

Hanna, Thanks on the flax seed oil information. I will figure something out, have to figure out, I love any fish in my diet but my girlfriend hates the smell, and now that I think of it, it was her we strayed from fish oils and got into flax as our personal omega 3 choice. I have seen information on this having little clout for its properties being that great especially in oil form versus actual fresh seeds.
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