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Old 02-15-2017, 04:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Puppy getting bullied

Hi, so my 6 month old boxer has been growing up with my housemates Australian Shepherd since he was 8 weeks old. The shepherd is a little over one month older and is not the most obedient dog. Ever since we first brought the dogs home (we got them at the same time), the shepherd has been extremely aggressive towards the boxer even at 14 and 8 weeks old respectively. I had no idea a puppy could be so aggressive at such a young age. The shepherd would attack for things involving food, protecting a valuable human "jealousy", protecting his room, and what seems to be just declaring dominance. The attacks have progressively been getting worse and more frequent as the dogs grow bigger, possibly because my boxer has reached the same size as the australian shepherd and is seen as more of a threat. He has received two scars from these attacks.

My boxer would never start a fight and doesnt fight back. He would yelp until we separated the two. Regardless, my dog never seemed to submit to the shepherd until recently. Before, my dog would ignore all the signals the shepherd was sending out but not try to display dominance himself. He now puts his head down whenever the shepherd tries to display dominance. Unfortunately the shepherd does not seem to care about this, takes advantage, and will still attack. I usually stop the shepherd as soon as I see the signs, but I am not able to be there everytime.

My dog has been the perfect puppy to me in terms of obedience. He hasnt caused me any trouble and people describe him as very calm and well behaved for a boxer. When playing at the dog park or on a walk, however, he still has that "in your face" boxer play and loves pushing the buttons of all the dogs there. It has been perfect so far... its like he knows when he can let loose. He is super playful and can hold his own when the bigger dogs play rough. I trained him knowing just how much of a handful a boxer can be; i was prepared for it and it has paid off so far.

I guess I just want to know what I can do or expect from this situation. I have been keeping my dog in my room from the shepherd while i am in class lately since I cannot keep an eye on them. The shepherd gets free roam because his owner is home most of the day (but he doesnt watch the dogs like a hawk like i would). My housemate says hes trying his hardest to correct the shepherds behavior so theres not much I can do for the shepherd directly since hes not my dog. I just want to come to a point where I do not have to worry about my dog getting hurt while im gone without me locking him away for most of the day.

I dont want Ares to be an aggressive dog and I dont think he ever will be, but I do want him to be able to put a bully in his place. After all, he is a boxer who will be bigger than the australian shepherd. Any advice on what I should do for now or has anybody else gone through a similar situation?

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Old 02-15-2017, 08:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hmm I'm sure Chip will chime in with some advise but its difficult to properly train two pups at the same time. Its not a task I would do and I've had dogs all my life. Unless the shepherds owner takes this serious and trains his dog I see no alternative than to keep the dogs separate. I'm also not a fan of dog parks mainly because there is always one owner who brings a dog with the shepherds personality and things get out of hand. My opinion is this will escalate and may possibly cause problems in your dog later, also be aware that dogs go through a 2nd fear period somewhere between 8-10 months.
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Old 02-16-2017, 03:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't have any useful advice to offer, but if my housemate's dog continuously attacked mine, you best believe I would step in to control his dog if he doesn't! I think it's a good idea to keep your dog in your room while you're out of the house. Honestly it doesn't sound like your room mate really cares because it's not his dog getting attacked.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lindar51 View Post
Hmm I'm sure Chip will chime in with some advise but its difficult to properly train two pups at the same time. Its not a task I would do and I've had dogs all my life.
Right there with you.

Of course two ... puppies at once can be done but it has to be done "properly." Twice the training, twice the time and effort and both dogs would need to be walked, separately and together. One on one walks with each dog is "important!"

I fell a found of that one myself becasue "I" assumed (Over Size Workingline GSD) that one "Formal Obedience Training" was enough to avoid issues??? And I had tons of "Dog Free" open space available. So you know ... why "walk him???'

And loose leash walking is not really an "issue" for me ... so you know .... no need to "waste time on that???" I was wrong??? It took "Five Pack Fights" a "Trip to the ER" for stitches (me) from trying to break up "Pack Fights" and "finally" the surfacing of "Human Aggression???"

Before it was "Aye, Aye Sir ... "Message Received!" "Rehab" started by me "now" starting to "Walk" my dog.

Best advice is to always have one well trained dog before adding a second. Admittedly a "unique situation" here. But that advise still holds true.

But ... enough from "me" on that ... anyone considering the two puppy thing should at least "read this.":

Leerburg | Raising Two Pups at a Time: Why It's a Bad Idea

Water under the bridge at this point but still valid info.

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Originally Posted by Lindar51 View Post
Unless the shepherds owner takes this serious and trains his dog I see no alternative than to keep the dogs separate.
And there you go ... at the heart of the issue is "this" ... It's not the "OP's" dog! It's not "strictly" speaking at this point a "Dog Issue" and an owners willingness to change???

The other owner should not have gotten that dog! "MOST" herder dogs are above the average "Pet Owners" skill set! Unless the other owner is ready to put in some serious effort ... that dog is going to worse not better!!

There is no shortage of "badly behaved" Herder dogs out there all one has to do is look around. Having said there ... if an owner actually takes the time to properly train one ... that's a much, much different situation!!

I was "forced" by circumstances to take one on. My neighbor's dog ... long back story but to cut to the chase he was done! Upon the third time or so of "Molly" escaping her yard and coming into mine. He was done ... "off to the pound you go" he said.

Sigh ... no don't do that ... I'll take here and find her a home. Not a fan of the "herder group as a whole" but I do rescue so I'll foster in place. Yet another "Long Story" short, since "I" now had control ... I did what I did and sigh it did not take "corersion" but it take "Rules/Structure and Limitations.

Molly got that ... the dog was freaking brilliant!! My wife fell in luv with her nearly instantly but I'm a hard sale. So I worked with her she got it and I too fell in luv but ... to late. A little boy saw her online and wanted to meet her. The big test was can my son walk this dog ... "LOL???" Saddly ... I'd done my job to well??? The big test was none issue for "Molly."

We cried as they loaded her up .... "rescue work" can be a tough business on the heart. So nothing wrong with the "herders" per se but they are not a "Breed" for the "lazy!" And yes ... "GSD's" are herder dogs also ... should have stuck to my guns ... but it worked out in the long run for "us."



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindar51 View Post
I'm also not a fan of dog parks mainly because there is always one owner who brings a dog with the shepherds personality and things get out of hand. My opinion is this will escalate and may possibly cause problems in your dog later, also be aware that dogs go through a 2nd fear period somewhere between 8-10 months.
Well ... yeah ... this dog being pounded at home and then being subjected to the "uncontrolled chaos" of a "Dog Park??" Is just not good ... most likely he is only one "Bad Dog" encounter away from having serious dog aggression issues???
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't have any useful advice to offer,
Well as it happens ... your wrong ... because you just did!! It's also a "people" thing and if the others dogs owner does not see there dogs having an "issue" and take steps to "address" there dogs behaviour .... nothing will change! It's pretty much that simple.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasasola View Post
but if my housemate's dog continuously attacked mine, you best believe I would step in to control his dog if he doesn't! I think it's a good idea to keep your dog in your room while you're out of the house. Honestly it doesn't sound like your room mate really cares because it's not his dog getting attacked.
And there you ... it's not my dogs "job" to defend themselves, it's my job to defend them and I take my job ... seriously!

This guy is getting pounded on in his home. At "some point" there is going to blowback from that happening.

For no "useful advise to offer" you did pretty good.
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ares654 View Post
Hi, so my 6 month old boxer has been growing up with my housemates Australian Shepherd since he was 8 weeks old. The shepherd is a little over one month older and is not the most obedient dog. Ever since we first brought the dogs home (we got them at the same time), the shepherd has been extremely aggressive towards the boxer even at 14 and 8 weeks old respectively. I had no idea a puppy could be so aggressive at such a young age. The shepherd would attack for things involving food, protecting a valuable human "jealousy", protecting his room, and what seems to be just declaring dominance. The attacks have progressively been getting worse and more frequent as the dogs grow bigger, possibly because my boxer has reached the same size as the australian shepherd and is seen as more of a threat. He has received two scars from these attacks.

My boxer would never start a fight and doesnt fight back. He would yelp until we separated the two. Regardless, my dog never seemed to submit to the shepherd until recently. Before, my dog would ignore all the signals the shepherd was sending out but not try to display dominance himself. He now puts his head down whenever the shepherd tries to display dominance. Unfortunately the shepherd does not seem to care about this, takes advantage, and will still attack. I usually stop the shepherd as soon as I see the signs, but I am not able to be there everytime.

My dog has been the perfect puppy to me in terms of obedience. He hasnt caused me any trouble and people describe him as very calm and well behaved for a boxer. When playing at the dog park or on a walk, however, he still has that "in your face" boxer play and loves pushing the buttons of all the dogs there. It has been perfect so far... its like he knows when he can let loose. He is super playful and can hold his own when the bigger dogs play rough. I trained him knowing just how much of a handful a boxer can be; i was prepared for it and it has paid off so far.

I guess I just want to know what I can do or expect from this situation. I have been keeping my dog in my room from the shepherd while i am in class lately since I cannot keep an eye on them. The shepherd gets free roam because his owner is home most of the day (but he doesnt watch the dogs like a hawk like i would). My housemate says hes trying his hardest to correct the shepherds behavior so theres not much I can do for the shepherd directly since hes not my dog. I just want to come to a point where I do not have to worry about my dog getting hurt while i'm gone without me locking him away for most of the day.
More than happy to dig in here ... if you'd like, but first you do need to understand that you have a "People Issue" as well as a "Dog Issue" here. If that dog is "allowed" to free roam while your dog spends the day confined?? Then the house does belong to the "Free Roaming" dog and the more that dog gets to "practice" making poor choices ... the better at he becomes. A muzzle would be a good first step ... most likely ... good luck with that one with the other dog's owner??? Right now ... your dog is in the trenches ... alone?? That needs to change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares654 View Post
I dont want Ares to be an aggressive dog and I dont think he ever will be, but I do want him to be able to put a bully in his place. After all, he is a boxer who will be bigger than the australian shepherd. Any advice on what I should do for now or has anybody else gone through a similar situation?
The only other "unsolicited advise" I'll offer is "don't do this!"

At my high point I walked my "American Band Dawg" my "OS WL GSD" and my "Boxer" and sure if a "dog with attitude" wanted to take his chances walking into that "meat grinder" he could "take his shot???"

But before he could ... that dog would have to go thru me first!! And in 15 attempts ... nine on "Rocky" alone (OS Wl GSD) that has not happened! Advocate for your dog, it's not my dog's job to "protect themselves" it's my job to protect them!

As long as a dog understands that we are "Knee Deep" in it ... together ... that's all that matters.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm going to chime in because you picked the best boxer name. I agree with chip. I would have an issue with my roomate. This Shepherd is being unruly and that's a huge red flag for the adult version. If they aren't going to do it, you might as well work on training this Shepherd too. Corrections work.
The dogs do not need to play together. You can walk them together, do some training together, but that's all I'd do.
Good luck.
Remember sometimes honest bluntness goes a long way. You will have a roomate for a short time. Your dog will be with you for hopefully 10+ years.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm going to chime in because you picked the best boxer name. I agree with chip. I would have an issue with my roomate. This Shepherd is being unruly and that's a huge red flag for the adult version. If they aren't going to do it, you might as well work on training this Shepherd too. Corrections work.
The dogs do not need to play together. You can walk them together, do some training together, but that's all I'd do.
Good luck.
Remember sometimes honest bluntness goes a long way. You will have a roomate for a short time. Your dog will be with you for hopefully 10+ years.
LOL ... apparently I got "members" mixed up??? I've not seen "this happen before" members with "similar" user names but now I know.

Moving on ... the "OP" did take the first step in "solving" there dogs "issues" stop doing and start thinking. The problem here is ... the "OP's" dog has no issues to be solved??? The person that is the "source" of the "issues" is not taking responsibility for "there dog's behaviour!" Most likely as far as they are concerned ... the "problem" is solved!

I'll simply lock the "victim" up all day and my dog is free to do as he pleases. That works out fine ... for them. For the "OP's" dog ... not so much???

The roles need to be reserversed ... the dog that "needs" to be on "lock down" is the dog that is free roaming in the house all day! That dog needs to be Crate Trained and Trained in Place. And if he is indoors ... he needs to be in "Place" or in his "Crate" ... "Period!" As long as he is free to "roam the house" while both dogs are loose ... he is also free to chose when and where he will strike!

Pretty much that simple. It's a "people thing" ... if the "OP" can't change the behaviour of the "Roommate" and dumping them or moving out is not an option??? Then it's time to consider ... what's best for the dog???

Contact a local "Boxer Rescue" and offer to foster in place. Keep the "Boxer" safe and find a more suitable home for him. Because "hoping" the dog will "Stand Up for Himself" is just not a good plan. Or I suppose ... plan B, the roommate needs to spen there dog away to a "Competent Qualified" board and train and let them put in the work. Heck offer to split the cost??

I doubt they'd be willing to go for "Plan B" on account of they "don't think they have a problem??? But I don't know???

Rules, Structure and Limitations "would" be the first step in "solving this" but I seriously doubt the "roommate is willing to put in the effort??? Those three I can help with but the "people think" and training /managing/disciplining "someone" else's dog ... not so much.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Well as it happens ... your wrong ... because you just did!! It's also a "people" thing and if the others dogs owner does not see there dogs having an "issue" and take steps to "address" there dogs behaviour .... nothing will change! It's pretty much that simple.

And there you ... it's not my dogs "job" to defend themselves, it's my job to defend them and I take my job ... seriously!

This guy is getting pounded on in his home. At "some point" there is going to blowback from that happening.

For no "useful advise to offer" you did pretty good.
Lol! Well thank you! I was just saying how I felt and how I would handle the situation. To me it seems like the problem is the human owner's lack of control and responsibility for his dog's behavior! He says he's trying, but it doesn't seem like he's trying at all because the behavior is just getting worse.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Lol! Well thank you! I was just saying how I felt and how I would handle the situation. To me it seems like the problem is the human owner's lack of control and responsibility for his dog's behavior! He says he's trying, but it doesn't seem like he's trying at all because the behavior is just getting worse.
Well you are absolutely correct, the OP, is in a tough spot. And yes the other dog is getting worse and worse and sooner or later the "Boxer" is gonna have a "melt down" ... it things don't change and more than likely it's gonna be Vet Trips and ER visits for "everybody!"

The other owner should have gotten a "Pug." That would be the equivalent of a "Goldfish" in "Dog World." No disrespect meant to "Pug" owners ... I like "Pugs" as they are kinda cute.

At anyrate ... I'll roll back on the "vitriol" as not understanding how to "solve an issue" ... is not a crime??? "Pack Issues" are one of the most difficult issues an owner can face. Yes the other owner is trying ... but I'd bet as far as the other owne is concerned ... the problem is solved??? The target goes on "Lockdown while the other owner is away and I don't have a "issue" ... problem solved???That would be the source of contention.

I would also wager ... that dog (Herder) has a lot more problems then this??? I know "those owners and those dogs." And yeah ... "I'm not a fan of a "Herder Dog and a Clueless owner combo" hmmm back to "vitriol???"

But "herder Dogs and clueless owners ... are just not a good combination! But to end on a "High Note." One of the things that I strived to achieve was to have an "Off Leash" dog. And my inspiration, was a "Skilled Owner" and a "Herder Dog!"

I Observed "such" one day walking down the sidewalk next to "Hwy 50." The dog walked calmly on the sidewalk next to his owner. I remember "thinking at the time" wow that is "amazing" I wish, I could achieve that???

Little did I know ... that "one day" ... "I would be that guy!" Most likely "Struddel" could have done it also but you know, she was kinda sorta caught up in the "Daddys Girl" thing. I was just not willing to take a "chance." I did not "trust her "training."

On the other hand ... although my, Rocky "OS Wl GSD" was the only dog that ever sent to me to the "ER!" Him I did allow to be "off leash" most likely becasue of his "attitude," ... I now had a "low acceptance of crap threshold." No crap with people and you stay by my freaking side or follow me! Worked out fine.

In anycase ... it's a "people issue" here. I doubt the other owner is "online" looking for solutions to "solve an issue" they don't thing they have???
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