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Old 04-21-2017, 09:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default I did a bad thing

As some of you read... our first night home went great. Our second night was pretty bad. No, not bad, AWFUL. We had worked on letting Talos walk into his crate on his own giving him treats and rewards for going in etc. Then it came time for bed. We did our mandatory 30 minutes of him yelling, barking, howling and thrashing around the crate. Finally clamed down and went to sleep. (as mentioned before I'm on the sofa just feet away from him and ignoring his cries) At 1am he was pitching a fit so I took him out. He went potty and came back in. I took him straight to the crate with a treat. 15 minutes of tantrum and sleep. Then at 4 we started again. Back outside we went and he did his business but was full of pep. I still put him back in the crate. He whined, yelled, barked, howled and thrashed for 2 hours! My neighbor across the street said he could hear him when he left for work at 5 am. I'm truly afraid he'll hurt himself.

So last night... my husband got him in the crate and sleeping before I got out of the shower. So I took advantage and went to sleep. Then we started the routine. 1am barking, howling, etc... so out we go. potty. back in and crate. Calmed down pretty quick. 4am barking, howling etc... out again. Potty but he was full of pep and bouncing around.

I was just so tired... I couldn't do another 4am day on little sleep. Nor could I listen to 2 hours of the thrashing etc, the two of us ended up on the couch and slept for almost 3 hours. He was still asleep when I got up. Laying with his head up by shoulder, flat on his back, ears flapped out. full blown dreaming. (Did I also mention that this means I overslept getting up for work by almost an hour. I was still on time) I feel great! BUT... know that this is a bad thing.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Yep, you just shot yourself in the foot. Lol

Look.... your puppy will need to go to the bathroom at least twice in a night. It sounds like he is getting you up every 3 hrs which is about right. I crate train my own differently. I'm on dog number ............ I've lost count, lol. You tend to relax and compromise through the dogs. So we have changed how we do things. I need sleep, I can not function with small amounts and it's best for those around me that I get at least seven hours. So my puppies all start in bed with me.

I know, I know... bad momma but hear me out. You have just pulled that puppy away from all things familiar. Your house smells different and they have no warm bodies with lullaby heart beats to snuggle in with and fall asleep to. By putting them in bed, they are more at ease to curl up and go to sleep snuggled into me. I can feel them move around or fuss and I quickly take them outside to do their business. The first week, they go out twice in the night, the second week, once a night and by the third week they are holding it for six to seven hours no problem. I then do my crate training during the day. Once we are at a point of sleeping all night long, I then decide do they stay or do they go else where.

Usually, I then move them to a crate beside my bed but with the last girl Monroe. She went and slept with Mya on a dog bed right beside my bed. She stayed in bed with us until she was four months and then went to the floor with a snuggle buddy.

Since you broke the pattern, be ready for longer fights in the night cause now he knows if he fusses enough you will cave, lol. Crate training a puppy is still much easier than figuring out sleep patterns of a newborn. The screaming fits only last a few weeks... a newborn child will keep you exhausted for years...lmao!
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah ... you kinda sorta messed up ... still ... when I got my first t puppy many, many years ago he was not Crate Trained. And he did sleep in bed with me. I'd set a timer and get up every three to four hours and carry him out to go potty.

I'd get puppies at X-mas time when I had two weeks off and Marilyn "suggested" I don't spend 14 days with my puppy glued to my side becasue ... I will have to leave them at some point. So I'd leave Gunther alone for an hour or two after three days.

And when we did go back to work, we puppy proofed the living room restricted his access to the rest of the house and leave the slider up for him to go in and out. On the West Coast we all pretty much have six foot fences as standard.

I played with him, trained him and we'd go for short walks, I never had a problem, I did that, with puppy number two Stewie and puppy number three Struddell (Avatar) never had a problem.

Puppy number foster fail at 7 months old my first Over Size Working Line GSD, yeah ... him I de-crate trained ... that would 7 months later prove to have been a mistake ... too much freedom lead to "issues" but that's another story.

At anyrate ... your going to need to at least get an Ex-Pen to keep puppy from under foot. https://www.chewy.com/frisco-dog-exe...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

And you are still doing much,much better than the truly clueless, lots of puppy madness going on at germanshepardforum right now but good information also.:

PLEASE HELP - puppy will not stop peeing/pooing inside - German Shepherd Dog Forums

That's an owner that does not have a clue. You've merely made a choice, the best advise for most people would be to Crate Train your puppy. But if the long term goal is to actually have a dog that you don't "need" to have Crated ... that can be done, Crate free, if you manage to get rules structure and limitations right.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I know I shot myself in the foot. He's just this sweet baby who needed some extra love. I too do not do well without enough sleep. I only got 3 hours or so that second night. No where near enough for me. I will work harder on the crate. We just both had a laps last night.

Thank you both for the encouraging posts and advise. It's appreciated and great to hear from other owners who've done this a few times.

I still think we're doing great for night 3! We've only had one accident in the house (which I am part to blame) I took him out to potty hoping to get a sample for the vet (which he did). Then he was laying in the grass and just seemed done. So I took him in and grabbed a bag to collect the sample and he peed on the mat just by the door. I cleaned it and gave him loves. Just no treat.

I'm still also trying to figure out what is the correct times to feed and when to stop feeding to help him sleep etc..

We also need to start working on day crate training. He has had no time in the crate during the day because my husband works from home. We're planning on a. getting the office upstairs set up so that Talos can get used to not seeing his people 24/7 and my husband can still do his job. He's on the phone a large portion of the day and it's hard to do when the dog is barking and howling (he's got good lungs that's for sure)

As for what is going over in the Shepard forum.. my heart is breaking for that puppy.
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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My husband also said it might not be tooo bad considering I didn't just take him from the crate and lay down. I let him out of the crate and we went outside. Then I sat with him on the floor a minute when we came back in and then we laid down on the couch. So he may not associate that the crying means he gets to lay with mom. Maybe all hope is not lost! LOL
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaciam630 View Post
I know I shot myself in the foot. He's just this sweet baby who needed some extra love. I too do not do well without enough sleep. I only got 3 hours or so that second night. No where near enough for me. I will work harder on the crate. We just both had a laps last night.

Thank you both for the encouraging posts and advise. It's appreciated and great to hear from other owners who've done this a few times.

I still think we're doing great for night 3! We've only had one accident in the house (which I am part to blame) I took him out to potty hoping to get a sample for the vet (which he did). Then he was laying in the grass and just seemed done. So I took him in and grabbed a bag to collect the sample and he peed on the mat just by the door. I cleaned it and gave him loves. Just no treat.

I'm still also trying to figure out what is the correct times to feed and when to stop feeding to help him sleep etc..

We also need to start working on day crate training. He has had no time in the crate during the day because my husband works from home. We're planning on a. getting the office upstairs set up so that Talos can get used to not seeing his people 24/7 and my husband can still do his job. He's on the phone a large portion of the day and it's hard to do when the dog is barking and howling (he's got good lungs that's for sure)

As for what is going over in the Shepard forum.. my heart is breaking for that puppy.
I posted that link because it has a lot of information from members that do know what they are doing.

The OP does not have a freaking clue! The best thing for that puppy would be to rehome him to someone that is more ... "suitable." But she's not the first without a freaking clue??? We got another thread started yesterday, by someone with yet again another new puppy. Puppy has zero potty training and has accidents in the house. ANd they asked ... it's been three days ... how long is this going to last???

I'm forced to give as advise to everyone ... "Crate Train" your puppy ... that is pretty much what every serious competent Pro, would say. Fortunately for me ... know one ever ask me well ... "Well what you do with a new female Boxer puppy???" Cause the girls you know ... I'd most likely skip the crate and make up for that down the road with structure, rules, training discipline and a butt load of patience.

But now ... you've messed up! So it's in that thread but if you did listen to it here is advise from Larry Khron on how to raise a puppy.:

His standards are pretty high and you don't have to carry them out to the T. But in general ... that would be how you get (potty training) done right.

But now you know that your "Puppy" can get kept in the Crate crazy, and keep it up for hours??? Long enough for neighbors to complain???If that is the case?? Then you need to keep it real for the puppy. I kinda think not having any bedding in the crate is a bit extreme but it's also true that the puppy could shred and eat bedding ... so there is that. But assuming he does not ... putting something with your scent on it in the crate could be useful as could a hot water bottle or a ticking clock ... if you can find one these days???

If that fails then you are going to simply have to "correct the puppy" in the Crate ... give him 15 minutes or so to settle in the Crate and if he does not ... use a Bonker on the Crate. Throw it against the Crate and say "NO!" Repeat as necessary ... it shouldn't take more than two or three times??? And for that approach, a heavy pair of socks should suffice as a "Bonker."

That approach "might" be necessary becasue, most likely he will now have learned, that if I throw a total hissy fit ... I can get out of here??? On the other hand if it works ... then you will have to keep a closer eye/ear on him becasue if he does need to go potty he will most likely be subject to making a lot less noise??? So he may simply "whine" instead of having a melt down if he needs to go potty???
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Old Yesterday, 06:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I will also say he has bedding, one of my tshirts. A teddy bear I had with the breeder so his momma's and siblings scent is on it. A puppy warming pad. A nearby ticking clock.
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Old Yesterday, 06:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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LOL, Ok that's today?? How did last night go ... where did he sleep???
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Old Today, 01:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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That's what we've done with his crate every night since we've brought him home.

Last night was more of the same. At least 20 minutes of barking, yipping, howling. Then slept a few hours. Outside. Back to the crate and more barking, howling, then sleep for a few hours. Then we were up at 10 till 5.

Today my husband was home with him and got him in his crate without much fuss while he went to take a shower. I came home 10 minutes later and he started pitching a fit. He barked, yipped, was biting the crate. I ignored him and sat in the room where he could see me. Once he settled down for about 15 minutes of quiet time I let him out and took him outside.

Tonight my husband is sleeping downstairs with him so I can get some rest and see if he has any easier of a time with him.

We also got him a Kong to give him in the crate to see if he's occupied when first going in if it will make a difference.
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Old Today, 03:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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LOL ... well that sounds pretty typical and seems like your doing fine. But to be clear he's not been sleeping it the bed with you???
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