Socialization VS Parvo/Distemper

[Jimstigator]

I love this place. Easily the best boxer resource site I have found, but I have come to disagree with a common believe here, and wanted to throw it out there.

I don't think dogs should be kept in quarantine until their shots are done. The risk of disease is far lower than the risk of poor socialization. I was given the advice to keep my dog inside until 16 weeks, as are many other visitors here. That is some extremely stressful advice for a new dog owner... and probably not appropriate.

http://avsabonline.org/uploads/posit...ialization.pdf

"The primary and most important time for puppy socialization is the first three months of life.1, 2 During this time puppies should be exposed to as many new people, animals, stimuli and environments as can be achieved safely and without causing overstimulation manifested as excessive fear, withdrawal or avoidance behavior. For this reason, the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior believes that it should be the standard of care for puppies to receive such socialization before they are fully vaccinated.

"In general, puppies can start puppy socialization classes as early as 7-8 weeks of age. Puppies should receive a minimum of one set of vaccines at least 7 days prior to the first class and a first deworming. They should be kept up-to-date on vaccines throughout the class."

I believe parvo is serious, and can happen to any puppy. Keeping them locked up in a house isn't the answer. Would I take mine to a dog park before 16 weeks... probably not. But can he go for walks, meet other dogs, get outside, and experience life as a puppy... yes.

-Jim

[kielbasavw]

Parvo can live up past a year just sitting out in the open. Even if poop is picked up parvo can still live, bleach is the answer to killing the virus. All it takes is a sniff or a lick for the puppy to get it. Dogs poop on sidewalks believe it or not... so taking for a walk and avoiding grass isn't as safe as you might think. Also some dogs arent super clean when it comes to pooping and can have parvo sitting near their backside... dogs like to sniff eachothers rears. Not a good thing for an unprotected pup. All the dogs that I've met stayed home cooped up till a week after their last shot. And they are just fine.

[kielbasavw]

But if you have friends with dogs you know are vaccinated and safe area to play like at their own home with no unfamilular dogs near. Then that's okay... no risk. There are a lot of irrisponsible owners who don't even get their shots.

[Jimstigator]

I respect your opinion - but it almost makes me feel stronger about mine.

It does live on everything... that's the problem. It's not just out on the sidewalk, a wooded trail, the neighbors yard many folks try and avoid for the first 16 weeks... its everywhere.

It could be on your office mates sock, which transferred to his finger, which touched your desk, which you then touched, drove home, and got a kiss on the hand from your puppy.

I am just saying that it is thrown around here as a fact that puppies should be kept in seclusion 16 weeks. This is just plain not true and irresponsible advice to give. Dogs need to socialize with much more than a single other certified parvo free dog. On top of it, the belief is generally expressed with such conviction that new comers such as myself a few months ago get freaked out.

-Jim

[af_wx_wife]

My girls do not go out of our yard (other than vet appointments..which I carry them) till all of their Parvo/Distemper shots are given. I am not taking any chances with my girls at all. Murphy has been to Petsmart (to get a collar) & I held her the entire time there. Where we live there has just been a report case of Parvo. No thanks, Murphy goes back for her next shot later in the month & after that we will work on socialization as well as start some classes with her. I'd rather play the safe than sorry card.

[kielbasavw]

I agree that puppies should be socialized, but You recommended that puppys go out for walks to meet new dogs and such... thats the wrong way to go about it and increases risk by what i would think is a huge percentage. Like i mentioned before... take the pup to a known risk free enviroment. Yours or a friends home with vaccinated dogs. They get their socialization and keeping risk down by avoiding random dogs and enviroments.

[Jimstigator]

And that is just fine. But - to broadcast that advice as fact over the forums to everyone is where I get confused. It's like some people getting a flu shot, while others don't.

Below is my thread, and a perfect example of it being presented as a fact. I felt like people were begging me. Granted... I asked, but now looking back, I wish there was atleast one person who would have informed me of the other side. The reality of it is, dogs need that time to socialize.

How to avoid Parvo?

[Mgibs]

Excuse me? Are you posting that thread to contradict what I wrote about Parvo? Yes, socialization is important. BUT I've personally held dogs dieing from Parvo in my hands. It is NOT to be taken lightly. And the risks assoc w Parvo are far greater than socialization! Personally, the amt of time and love and $$ that I had spent on my puppy- I could not afford to take the risk of exposing him. They have to build up titers to the vacc and the disease. Just because they may have one shot or two does not mean they are fully protected and should be out meeting other dogs. I agree that socialization is important. And I agree that if u are going to take them out, do it at a friends backyard where they have vaccinated well dogs- make it a controlled environment. Puppies can and do die of this disease and before 10-12 wks of age they rarely can survive.


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[greg]

Having bred and owned boxers for over 30 years, here are my thoughts, i feel that you are better off taking the chance at socializing your pup at a young age, i start at 8 weeks old or after their first round of shots, as other members have mentioned , you are better off taking your pup over family and friends houses that you trust have their dogs vaccinated and you know they are knowledgeable about the diseases that a puppy can come in contact with, only bring your pup in known areas that are clean, it's been my experience... if a pup is not properly socialized at a young age they will never be quite as socialized as an adult when compared to the pup who was socialized at a young age, the last time i bred one of my females i knew that i probably wasn't going to continue breeding anymore so i kept 3 females and i gave my sister a female, long story short i started socialized my 3 at 8 weeks old and to this day they love meeting people and are extremely well behaved around them, i actually live by a high school and when the hundreds of kids come rushing out after school my girls just love it, they love when the kids pet them and ask me many questions about boxers, the pup i gave my sister (litter mate to my girls) was not properly socialized at a young age so when i take her by the school when the kids come out she gets over whelmed by them and tries to avoid contact with them as much as possible, it's a shame because she's a really friendly boxer, the more i take her to get her better socialize the more fearful she becomes as she is set in her ways, i believe in socializing at a young age but you have to be careful where you bring them, i feel that it is worth the risk because you will end up with a better socialized and well behaved boxer as an adult.

[2manydogs]

There are many people, including myself that believe in Natural Rearing. Google it, I think you might appreciate it Natural Rearers either do very limited vaccinations or no vaccinations at all.

If you are interested in this please feel free to PM me. It isnt for everyone but it is something I would be more than happy to discuss with you. I agree with you 100%. Puppies need to be socialized, this should have nothing to do with vaccinations