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Old 12-16-2012, 05:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I did not see any hostility or ranting in any of the posts on this thread.
I saw passionate people posting legitimate concerns and questions.
The OP may be upset but that is likely because they did not get the response they were hoping for.
Breeding should be left to those people who are willing and able to do everything in their power to improve the breed.

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Old 12-16-2012, 06:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I know this is completely off topic but I just have to say it:

Jess you are absolutely stunning!! Every time I see your sig pic I literally say WOW. I hope you have that picture framed some where. Its breath taking.
I agree and I have shown her album to almost everyone at work.

I don't know where they were taken but what a beautiful place.

Seems like all the really neat places are cold, cold, cold.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I have never seen so much hostility before, I think yeah get your dog tested do your research breeding isn't something you take lightly and being a vet tech student I know all the risks but instead of attacking people and judging them and there dog for not meeting breed standard is beyond me. I would like to apologize for the attacks against your decision you feel is right I didn't sign up for this

this very well May be true I can't "hear" the intentions behind everyone's statement and everyone is entitled to there opinions and where you don't hear hostility I did but I understand where the passion comes from I have worked in shelters to qualify for the vet tech program I know what happens behind closed doors but if the person who created this thread obviously felt attacked I think we can go about giving them info in another way so nothing can be misconstrued.

I'm sorry (well, not really), but the OP has been a member of this forum for three years and has over 200 posts here. If he'd been paying the slightest bit of attention during that time, he would've known better than to post such a ridiculous question and not expect any kick back from the established forum members. To get responses and then say he'll make an "educated" decision is laughable. Even the untrained eye can see his dog doesn't meet basic boxer conformation. That right there is reason enough to NOT breed the dog. Period. If he'd gone to the breeding forum and read the "sticky" posts about breeding, those would've answered his question just as well and we all could have avoided this conversation.

I appreciate that you're a vet tech and you "know what happens behind closed doors" in shelters. More people should spend a few hours behind those doors and see for themselves the senseless loss of life that occurs over and over and over every single day. Maybe then they'd get a clue. Or better yet, they can come with me the next time I pull an abandoned dog out of a house where his canine companion is dead on the couch and every single surface is covered with urine, feces, and mold, and the dog's hair is so matted he has to be shaved down and his toenails are curled and embedded in the pads of his feet, and the dog is so weak that when he lifts his leg to pee he falls down, and he can't bear to open his eyes because he's been inside for so long that the sun hurts. I'd volunteer to let them meet Promise (that's what we named him), but oh yeah, he died shortly after because of a lung infection caused by breathing in the crap he'd been living in.

Not all of us are hostile, but some of us most certainly are, because we're the ones left to clean up the messes caused by irresponsible and unethical breeders. That hostility is what keeps us going most days because the losses FAR outweigh the wins.

I apologize if this post offends any of my BF friends, but I am hostile and at least I own it. I work my ass off every single day with rescue, transport, crossposting, networking, phone calls, emails, fostering, hospice, etc. I have seen amazing good in people, but I have also seen the absolute worst.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tracilee014 View Post
Is it posible that what you are reading as hostility could be merely someone feeling very passionate about the over abundance of dogs in shelters and rescues? The writen word is difficult if not impossible to add inflection to and interpretation is up to all of us. For example, I personally didn't read anything that sounded hostile, what I read were questions and concerns ppl put fourth that invited the OP to think about some of these issues. Having spoken with a few of these ppl, I am able to hear the inflection in the writen words because I can relate to the way they speak.

Just my two cents.
Sounds like my two cents as well. That's close to a nickel!



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Old 12-16-2012, 08:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Cait, I agree completely, amen. After 200+ posts, you should know better. And you should know better than to turn your beloved pet into a money making breeding machine, ESP without the proper education and testing. I stick by everything I've said in this post, and I've seen nothing even remotely hostel here, just the truth.


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Old 12-16-2012, 08:40 PM   #26 (permalink)
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No one thinks its going to be them, those poor families in Connecticut, no one thought anything like that would happen. God rest their souls- the OP on this post might not think breeding would be a bad thing, or that they are doing anything wrong, but hindsight
Is ALWAYS 20/20. Just because you don't have the female, and therefore, the luckiness and burden-- of the puppies as well, does not mean you are not responsible and doesn't mean bad things won't fall upon you. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and the responsible thing to do would NOT be to breed or put other puppies and dogs at risk of bad breeding/ diseases, or euthanasia at shelters. Everyone can say- oh they will all be taken care of- they will all have homes, they will all be healthy- but until it happens, you really have no idea, and the greater risk you create- by breeding a bad specimen of the breed, with no health testing, the worse the results are. I ask the creator of this post- put yourself in others shoes - would you want to buy a puppy from someone who didn't health and genetically test? Would you feel confident spending hundreds of dollars and then finding out your puppy was either not pure bred, or had a very bad genetic problem and would die at a young age? Would you want to see the male, who you are thinking of breeding, on a shelter table getting euthanized? That could be the puppies of the male you bred, just think about it. It may not affect you now, but in the long run it might, and it will affect countless others. Put yourself in their shoes. It's not about the money or how cute your dog is. You have to be the better person and think of how it will affect countless others, and ultimately this breed, because that is what is important -and if you really love your dog, and want to do what's right- that is what you will think about - not the money for the stud fee.


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Old 12-16-2012, 09:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WholeLottaBoxers View Post
I'm sorry (well, not really), but the OP has been a member of this forum for three years and has over 200 posts here. If he'd been paying the slightest bit of attention during that time, he would've known better than to post such a ridiculous question and not expect any kick back from the established forum members. To get responses and then say he'll make an "educated" decision is laughable. Even the untrained eye can see his dog doesn't meet basic boxer conformation. That right there is reason enough to NOT breed the dog. Period. If he'd gone to the breeding forum and read the "sticky" posts about breeding, those would've answered his question just as well and we all could have avoided this conversation.

I appreciate that you're a vet tech and you "know what happens behind closed doors" in shelters. More people should spend a few hours behind those doors and see for themselves the senseless loss of life that occurs over and over and over every single day. Maybe then they'd get a clue. Or better yet, they can come with me the next time I pull an abandoned dog out of a house where his canine companion is dead on the couch and every single surface is covered with urine, feces, and mold, and the dog's hair is so matted he has to be shaved down and his toenails are curled and embedded in the pads of his feet, and the dog is so weak that when he lifts his leg to pee he falls down, and he can't bear to open his eyes because he's been inside for so long that the sun hurts. I'd volunteer to let them meet Promise (that's what we named him), but oh yeah, he died shortly after because of a lung infection caused by breathing in the crap he'd been living in.

Not all of us are hostile, but some of us most certainly are, because we're the ones left to clean up the messes caused by irresponsible and unethical breeders. That hostility is what keeps us going most days because the losses FAR outweigh the wins.

I apologize if this post offends any of my BF friends, but I am hostile and at least I own it. I work my ass off every single day with rescue, transport, crossposting, networking, phone calls, emails, fostering, hospice, etc. I have seen amazing good in people, but I have also seen the absolute worst.
I have a very good friend that worked at a shelter until she retired. The only reason she stayed was to try get as many dogs and cats into rescue. I would say you are VERY polite!! When you see the cruelty that goes on everyday it's heartbreaking. I know from seeing what goes on in the shelters my friend can't stand most people and she's not shy about it. I hear these stories and look at my dogs and it breaks my heart. How any can neglect something so loving and innocent is beyond me.


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Old 12-16-2012, 10:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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One can not guarantee what the owner of the female might do with the pups or if in fact the female has been health tested at all.

Right now in the shelter where I volunteer is this female Sadie. She was dumped off by her owner because they couldnt "afford" to treat her demodex mange. Yet she was still lactating when they dumped her in the shelter. They sold the pups but they couldnt even treat the Mother. So she was a breeding machine and when she wasnt of any use just dump her?

She now sits in the shelter covered with demodex mange from head to toe, has a grade 3-4 heart murmur and a secondary bacterial infection from the mange. Guess who has to pick up the pieces? In the condition she is in the shelter doesnt have to funds to treat her so she can NOT be adopted out. However Tulsa Boxer Rescue has stepped forward and said they will take her. There is NO way these people that bred her didnt know there was something seriously wrong IE the demodex yet they still bred her. This was a condition that went untreated for a very long time.

Heaven knows what happened to those pups and Demodectic mange is not an inherited condition, but the suppressed immune system that allows the puppy to be susceptible to the mites can be. This sensitivity can be passed genetically through generations. Individuals that have a history of demodectic mange, and their parents and siblings, should not be bred. Through careful breeding, most cases of generalized demodicosis could be eliminated.

I sat with her today for 30 mins in her kennel. I was afraid to touch her NOT because she was aggressive. Because I was afraid by touching her I might make her skin hurt worse then it already does. The smell from her was overpowering. THIS is why people like me and Cait and others that rescue are passionate and I guess it could come off as hostile. But I dont and will not apologize for that.

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Old 12-17-2012, 05:17 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I certainly did not mean to offend. My boxers have always been pet quality, not enough to standards for breeding. In my eyes they are beautiful and perfect. Any thoughts I ever had about breeding or cloning (however fleeting and not really serious they were) was from fear of loss. Not of their appearance but of the dogs they are and were. What I have to realize is that no dog will be the same as the one I lost. They are all wonderfully different. No one can escape the grief of losing a special dog by breeding him or her. I have to accept that a new dog, although wonderful in his her own way can replace what I found so special in my boys that have crossed. Sorry feeling weepy about missing my Winnie. This weekend has been bad.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:19 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Oh yea, I agree that Jess is stunning. I luv that photo every time I see it. It rocks.
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