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I would like to stud Apollo before getting him fixed.

5K views 47 replies 21 participants last post by  vashau4 
#1 · (Edited)
#2 · (Edited)
This is a hard one for me because Im on the rescue side of things and see too many unwanted Boxers in shelters abused and neglected or dumped I really dont even see the need to breed.

Have you had him health tested? There are many tests one should do before even considering breeding a dog male or female

American Boxer Club: Heath Screening of Boxers in Breeding Programs
 
#3 ·
Prepared for a lot of backlash on this post. NO ONE on this site condones breeding and breeding without having all of the necessary genetic tests done on your dog. Why do you want to breed? Is it just a male thing? Lol I say that because hubby and I are having our 8 mo old neutered soon and early early on he brought this same thing up to me. I squashed that REAL fast! Why do you want to add to the over population of pets? There are so many irresponsible pple out there that will buy a puppy and it will end up in a shelter because they can't handle this breeds exercise and health requirements. Why would you want to add to that? Also probably the biggest issue? Do you have an idea his parents and grandparents genetics and health background? Have you spent the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to get his eyes, hips, and heart certified for no defects? What's his parents/ line's history of cancer. This breed gets cancer at a VERY young age at a very high statistical rate. Why would you want to worsen the breed? AKC lines mean nothing, as does a regular vet check up- you need ALL the tests done before you even CONSIDER to stud him, otherwise you are just a backyard breeder


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#4 ·
How can you have 210 posts on this forum and NOT know that this kind of question is gonna rile the masses here? Irresponsible breeding is highly frowned upon. AKC papers and a basic vet check do NOT mean you should breed your dog. There is so much more that goes into it....all kinds of health testing, mentoring first with an established REPUTABLE breeder.

I'm sorry, but I'm in rescue and I've been busting my ass the last several months networking boxers dumped in shelters. The numbers this year are staggering and they're growing every day. And every night I cry over the countless boxers that didn't find rescue or adopters and were put to sleep.

So do us all a favor. DON'T breed your dog just 'cuz it seems like it'd be a "neat" thing to do. I don't want me or my friends to have to clean up another mess made by an irresponsible breeding.

If you think I'm kidding, go to your local shelter and volunteer to help in the euthanasia room for an afternoon.
 
#6 ·
How can you have 210 posts on this forum and NOT know that this kind of question is gonna rile the masses here? Irresponsible breeding is highly frowned upon. AKC papers and a basic vet check do NOT mean you should breed your dog. There is so much more that goes into it....all kinds of health testing, mentoring first with an established REPUTABLE breeder.

I'm sorry, but I'm in rescue and I've been busting my ass the last several months networking boxers dumped in shelters. The numbers this year are staggering and they're growing every day. And every night I cry over the countless boxers that didn't find rescue or adopters and were put to sleep.

So do us all a favor. DON'T breed your dog just 'cuz it seems like it'd be a "neat" thing to do. I don't want me or my friends to have to clean up another mess made by an irresponsible breeding.

If you think I'm kidding, go to your local shelter and volunteer to help in the euthanasia room for an afternoon.

Thanks Cait!

I also say volunteer in the euthanasia room. I tell many people that.
 
#5 ·
Also, are you looking to better the breed? Is he in conformation classes? He may be beautiful, but how do you know he meets this breed's standards. We all think our dogs are beautiful, but should they be bred, absolutely NOT! I strongly strongly strongly urge you to do your homework and really think about this - and get all the necessary tests done before you do this. It really isn't a good idea, and my heart hurts thinking of all the poor dogs in shelters, where their parent's owners were just like you. Dogs get put in shelters and get put to sleep, just because someone thought it was a good idea to breed.


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#7 ·
Thanks for the heartfelt intelligent replies. The rant I can do without. I posted the question to see if anyone felt the same, not for confirmation. I know it would get a few excited, but that's the beauty of these forums. I'm definitely aware of the risk and would make an educated decision if I ever did.


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#8 ·
When I first got Pheona, I'd have people at the vets office (other patients not staff) asking if I was going to breed her. Told them flat out...we got her for a companion pet not a money maker pet. Breeding has never been anything I have wanted to do as I don't see my fur babies in that way. Since we've gotten Murphy, it's been the round of same questions (aside from the people guessing what breed she is..naming everything but boxer). I guess some people see owning a purebreed pup as meaning you should breed him/her.
 
#10 ·
Some of the rescuers have pretty much covered most all the reasons why breeding could be a very bad thing but I would like to take you to another view if I may. Breeding responsibly also entails securing solid loving homes for a lifetime of your litter whether you are providing sire or dam. Given that, my question to you is, are you prepared to keep, raise and provide for any pups that you aren't able to place? I can tell you from personal experience because I made this very mistake that raising a pack of pups is beyond challenging and I'm a full time, stay at home mom and caretaker. I can't imagine what I would have done if I worked full time.

I can't turn my back for 5 minutes without one of my pack of pups getting into or destroying something. Everything I own has to be secured the minute I want to get up to even go to the bathroom. The vet bills have been astronomical from whelp to neuter / spay. The feed bills have quadrupled since my girl whelped the litter and will continue to get larger as my pups grow.

If I want to go out of the house for a few hours I have to hire my son to babysit the litter and if we wanted to go out as a family I'd have to hire the neighbor kid to come in and sit with them. Right now while they are going through their teenage angst, I can't even eat dinner at the table unless the weather is nice enough to allow my pack to be outside for a bit.

My point is, beyond the damage that could be caused by sending pups out into the world, if you are prepared to take care of the ones you can't place, you'd better be ready for a major life changing commitment. Just because you don't have the dam doesn't mean your responsibility ends with providing sperm.
 
#11 ·
Any experienced boxer person can see that Apollo doesn't fit the breed "standard." His muzzle is too long. That right there is reason enough that he should not be bred, let alone that he's probably not had the proper screenings for heart/hips, etc.
 
#12 ·
Apollo is purebred? As Cait mentioned his muzzle is very long. The purpose of breeding is to produce a healthy dog, with sound temperament that fits the breed standard. Breeders should go above and beyond making sure they are only improving the next generation. It is our obligation to make sure that all dogs within a program pass certain health criteria and offer something of value to the next generation.

The he's a great dog with a great temperament or I would like one of his offspring for myself just doesnt cut it.

Now, I didnt see the original post because the OP must have edited it. What I can say is, if you are going to breed then at least do yourself, the future litter and any potential buyers a favour and health test your dog. This is the only way to know what you may be passing from one generation to another.
 
#14 ·
I have never seen so much hostility before, I think yeah get your dog tested do your research breeding isn't something you take lightly and being a vet tech student I know all the risks but instead of attacking people and judging them and there dog for not meeting breed standard is beyond me. I would like to apologize for the attacks against your decision you feel is right I didn't sign up for this
 
#15 ·
Is it posible that what you are reading as hostility could be merely someone feeling very passionate about the over abundance of dogs in shelters and rescues? The writen word is difficult if not impossible to add inflection to and interpretation is up to all of us. For example, I personally didn't read anything that sounded hostile, what I read were questions and concerns ppl put fourth that invited the OP to think about some of these issues. Having spoken with a few of these ppl, I am able to hear the inflection in the writen words because I can relate to the way they speak.

Just my two cents.
 
#17 ·
this very well May be true I can't "hear" the intentions behind everyone's statement and everyone is entitled to there opinions and where you don't hear hostility I did but I understand where the passion comes from I have worked in shelters to qualify for the vet tech program I know what happens behind closed doors but if the person who created this thread obviously felt attacked I think we can go about giving them info in another way so nothing can be misconstrued.
 
#32 ·
I understand where the passion comes from I have worked in shelters to qualify for the vet tech program I know what happens behind closed doors
If this is the case, then besides owners, and rescuers you should know better then anyone that it's wrong, and not blow it off so easily, because it's something someone wants to do..That's the problem, issues like this are taken far to lightly because it might hurt someones feeling?!?!?
 
#18 ·
I agree. I didn't read any hostility either.

I also did rescue work and have seen way too many dogs put down because room needs to be made for more unwanted dogs. There are more dogs needing homes than people looking for dogs. I personally would not breed. There are way too many people out there adding to the problem.

On the health testing side. I also beg you to do this if you decide to breed. I just lost a 10 yr old cocker spaniel who had so many health problems do to poe breeding. She didn't lead a healthy dogs life. Her hips were so bad she couldn't go for long walks. She could run but not for long and she was on meds all her life. She was a happy and loved dog. My vet told me she was lucky to have me as shes seen dogs put down or given up many times for less than what Maggie went through. Please don't put your pups through what Maggie went through because of irresponsible breeding.


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#19 ·
On the health testing side. I also beg you to do this if you decide to breed. I just lost a 10 yr old cocker spaniel who had so many health problems do to poe breeding. She didn't lead a healthy dogs life. Her hips were so bad she couldn't go for long walks. She could run but not for long and she was on meds all her life. She was a happy and loved dog. My vet told me she was lucky to have me as shes seen dogs put down or given up many times for less than what Maggie went through. Please don't put your pups through what Maggie went through because of irresponsible breeding.


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I've been there too. I adopted my golden retriever when he was 3 years old, his first owners got him from Petland. In the four years I had him he costed me $20 000 (hips, knees, skin conditions and cancer). He died of cancer at 7 years old. His littermate also died of cancer at 7 years old.
 
#21 ·
I did not see any hostility or ranting in any of the posts on this thread.
I saw passionate people posting legitimate concerns and questions.
The OP may be upset but that is likely because they did not get the response they were hoping for.
Breeding should be left to those people who are willing and able to do everything in their power to improve the breed.

:)
 
#25 ·
Cait, I agree completely, amen. After 200+ posts, you should know better. And you should know better than to turn your beloved pet into a money making breeding machine, ESP without the proper education and testing. I stick by everything I've said in this post, and I've seen nothing even remotely hostel here, just the truth.


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#26 ·
No one thinks its going to be them, those poor families in Connecticut, no one thought anything like that would happen. God rest their souls- the OP on this post might not think breeding would be a bad thing, or that they are doing anything wrong, but hindsight
Is ALWAYS 20/20. Just because you don't have the female, and therefore, the luckiness and burden-- of the puppies as well, does not mean you are not responsible and doesn't mean bad things won't fall upon you. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and the responsible thing to do would NOT be to breed or put other puppies and dogs at risk of bad breeding/ diseases, or euthanasia at shelters. Everyone can say- oh they will all be taken care of- they will all have homes, they will all be healthy- but until it happens, you really have no idea, and the greater risk you create- by breeding a bad specimen of the breed, with no health testing, the worse the results are. I ask the creator of this post- put yourself in others shoes - would you want to buy a puppy from someone who didn't health and genetically test? Would you feel confident spending hundreds of dollars and then finding out your puppy was either not pure bred, or had a very bad genetic problem and would die at a young age? Would you want to see the male, who you are thinking of breeding, on a shelter table getting euthanized? That could be the puppies of the male you bred, just think about it. It may not affect you now, but in the long run it might, and it will affect countless others. Put yourself in their shoes. It's not about the money or how cute your dog is. You have to be the better person and think of how it will affect countless others, and ultimately this breed, because that is what is important -and if you really love your dog, and want to do what's right- that is what you will think about - not the money for the stud fee.


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#28 ·
One can not guarantee what the owner of the female might do with the pups or if in fact the female has been health tested at all.

Right now in the shelter where I volunteer is this female Sadie. She was dumped off by her owner because they couldnt "afford" to treat her demodex mange. Yet she was still lactating when they dumped her in the shelter. They sold the pups but they couldnt even treat the Mother. So she was a breeding machine and when she wasnt of any use just dump her?

She now sits in the shelter covered with demodex mange from head to toe, has a grade 3-4 heart murmur and a secondary bacterial infection from the mange. Guess who has to pick up the pieces? In the condition she is in the shelter doesnt have to funds to treat her so she can NOT be adopted out. However Tulsa Boxer Rescue has stepped forward and said they will take her. There is NO way these people that bred her didnt know there was something seriously wrong IE the demodex yet they still bred her. This was a condition that went untreated for a very long time.

Heaven knows what happened to those pups and Demodectic mange is not an inherited condition, but the suppressed immune system that allows the puppy to be susceptible to the mites can be. This sensitivity can be passed genetically through generations. Individuals that have a history of demodectic mange, and their parents and siblings, should not be bred. Through careful breeding, most cases of generalized demodicosis could be eliminated.

I sat with her today for 30 mins in her kennel. I was afraid to touch her NOT because she was aggressive. Because I was afraid by touching her I might make her skin hurt worse then it already does. The smell from her was overpowering. THIS is why people like me and Cait and others that rescue are passionate and I guess it could come off as hostile. But I dont and will not apologize for that.

 
#41 ·
My Cassie were a Pet Shop puppy. The first disease that she got were Demodex Mange.The vet explained to me about her Immune System were affected, and everything that you explained above. The Pet Shop refused to paid for her care and ask to return her, of course to put her down. It is so sad with everything that is going on with irresponsible breeders and pet owners.
I will never breed one of my dogs. :)
 
#29 ·
I certainly did not mean to offend. My boxers have always been pet quality, not enough to standards for breeding. In my eyes they are beautiful and perfect. Any thoughts I ever had about breeding or cloning (however fleeting and not really serious they were) was from fear of loss. Not of their appearance but of the dogs they are and were. What I have to realize is that no dog will be the same as the one I lost. They are all wonderfully different. No one can escape the grief of losing a special dog by breeding him or her. I have to accept that a new dog, although wonderful in his her own way can replace what I found so special in my boys that have crossed. Sorry feeling weepy about missing my Winnie. This weekend has been bad.
 
#31 ·
Vashau; I'm sorry but I have to agree with most of what is being said here.

You should not breed Apollo. He does not even look like a boxer in some of those pictures. He would do nothing to promote the breed. He should not be bred.

I don't understand why you would even attempt a question like this; it's almost to the point you trolling. Just posting to stir the pot type of thing.

I sincerely hope that you come to your senses about the whole idea of breeding. Besides the obvious fact that he is such a poor representative of the breed, you did not have him health tested either. Even if you did, and it turned out well, I still would not breed him as he does not look like a boxer. His snout is waaaayyyy to long, the shape of his head is all wrong. He doesn't have the characteristics of hte boxer chest in addition to the fact that his topline and neck are all wrong as well.

You have a poorly bred dog. Although he is very handsome in his own way he does not represent the boxer breed in the least. I don't mean to sound harsh but please take an honest and hard look at the differences.......

American Standard: (Winner last year)

16 Dogs to Watch at the Westminster Dog Show in 2012

UK Standard: (winner in Crufts in 2011)

Photo Gallery

These are just a few examples of well bred; health tested dogs. I don't mean to be cruel or harsh but face facts. Does your dog look like them?
 
#34 ·
Bosley does not look like any of those dogs either, so I guess he's not a breed standard. You may need to have him health tested. Btw Apollo is health tested, very well behaved and a great companion. Do what u wish with your dog and ill do the same. View attachment 29978


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I don't think Bosley's mom is planning on studding him out. Many of us own dogs not up to breed standard. All eight of mine look completely different from one another. I can't say a single one is even close to breed standard, but then I'm not looking for breed standard. I'm looking to adopt boxers dumped in shelters about to be euthanized due to age/health.

What health testing have you had done? Just interested to know.


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#35 ·
I understand the passion, but it was a honest question. Thank you for the feedback but I've found a blue pit to breed Apollo with and we are calling the pups Pixers. Taking deposits..lol
Apollo is scheduled to go under the knife in two weeks. Seriously, to the folks that really broke down the pros and cons respectfully, thank you!


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