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Old 05-02-2014, 12:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Nope not saying Boxers aren't dog park dogs...although "some dogs might have problems with being slapped in the face and having there backs jumped on!
Lol, I tell people that all the time! That is one of the main reasons I can't see myself ever sending my Z to your standard doggy day care. I know that she is extremely dog friendly & would loooove to spend all day playing with other dogs, but I also know that not every dog wants to be "boxed" or wrestled with. Given that I know Ziva will smack other dogs around and will want to play rough I just don't think its appropriate for her to be playing with other dogs when neither I or those dogs owners are present.

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And yes you are correct some dogs regardless of breed "don't belong in a dog park." Some dogs "do" have resource guarding issues and they will see a toy in a dog park as "there toy!" If another dog goes for "there toy" theres going to be a problem!
Totally agree with you here! Every breed definitely has its own characteristics that do show up when they play. GSDs tend to grab dogs by the back of the neck & push them to the ground, herding dogs tend to run circles around other dogs, barking at them if they step out of their designated space, goldens are usually seen greeting every human in the park before finding a place to play fetch with their owner & boxers, of course, like to box. The dogs who don't belong in a dog park, in my opinion, are those who have a bite history, guarding issues, are over six months and have not yet been spayed/neutered & those who need to wear a muzzle. And yet, sadly, owners of those types of dogs bring their dogs anyway. Just last weekend I had words with a woman who came in with her three dogs, all of whom were under 35 pounds but on the "big dog" side, were barking nonstop & none of whom wanted anything to do with the other dogs. But the reason we had words was because one of the three dogs was leashed & muzzled the entire time & was getting more and more upset the longer they were there. I'm sorry, but if your dog needs a muzzle it does not belong in the dog park!

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If a happy well balanced dog starts getting picked on, rolled or attacked at a dog park because someone else has used said happy dog as a "chew toy'" the happy dogs owners is the one that has to deal with the consequences.

Fear biting, dog reactive etc, said dogs "learn" that they have to protect themselves because there owners can't!

Additionally if a young dog gets to run around with a pack of dogs out of control, it can quickly learn that listening to it's owner is optional!

In 15 years and 5 dogs my guys have "never" been attacked, they knew I had there backs, I never had problems created by some "strangers" dogs using my guys as a "chew toy."
The truth is that every dog should know or learn how to protect themselves. I know that a lot of people still believe in the "leader of the pack" mentality & that is their choice, but that way of thinking has become a bit outdated, regardless of what Cesar Milan says, lol. Dogs who are dog reactive or have a tendency to fear bite are two totally different issues. Dog reactivity is usually due to improper socialization or a negative association of some sort, possibly due to some sort of trauma or frustration. A dog who fear bites...well lets just save that for another discussion, lol.

As far as young dogs running around with a pack of dogs out of control learning that listening to their owner is an option...eh. I just don't see it. First, the dog park is for play, not for training. Does that mean your dog should be allowed to ignore you while at the dog park? No, of course not. However, you should be setting your dog up for success & should understand that given the high level of distractions your young dog isn't likely to be as attentive to you. For that reason, I'd avoid asking your young dog to perform any behaviors at the dog park until that behavior is fully proofed, and even then I wouldn't ask them to do anything you can't get them to follow through with. They can only ignore you if you let the,. ;-)

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On occasion, you'll see folks like me at a dog park, you can tell because "we" watch our dogs like a hawk! No cell phones, picnics or tablets. Usually off in the distance first sign of "problems" we are otu of there!
Lol, at the dog park near me those are the kind of people you predominantly see. There is a large group of "regulars" and you won't ever see us looking at our phones, sitting at the tables or taking our eyes off of our dogs for more than a second or two. Everyone should always have eyes on their dog! We all joke that you can tell who the regulars are because we are the ones who instantly bend at the knees when we see/hear a group of dogs coming near. Gotta bend those knees if you don't want to get knocked over! ;-)

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Military dogs service dogs and K9's don't go to dog parks if they do it's for dog "proofing" they will usually be sitting by there owners side observing if they are there at all??
Military/police dogs I'm not sure about, but I do know that service dogs can (and do) go to the dog parks at their owners discretion. There is a small group of "regulars" at the dog park near me who are all there with their service dogs. The owners are able bodied (no clue what service the dogs are providing & not about to ask, lol) & the dogs come in without their harnesses on. Usually the dogs stick close to their owners & mostly play fetch (they're all labs or labradoodles), but they will play with the other dogs, as well.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Totally agree with you here! Every breed definitely has its own characteristics that do show up when they play. GSDs tend to grab dogs by the back of the neck & push them to the ground, herding dogs tend to run circles around other dogs, barking at them if they step out of their designated space, goldens are usually seen greeting every human in the park before finding a place to play fetch with their owner & boxers, of course, like to box. The dogs who don't belong in a dog park, in my opinion, are those who have a bite history, guarding issues, are over six months and have not yet been spayed/neutered & those who need to wear a muzzle. And yet, sadly, owners of those types of dogs bring their dogs anyway. Just last weekend I had words with a woman who came in with her three dogs, all of whom were under 35 pounds but on the "big dog" side, were barking nonstop & none of whom wanted anything to do with the other dogs. But the reason we had words was because one of the three dogs was leashed & muzzled the entire time & was getting more and more upset the longer they were there. I'm sorry, but if your dog needs a muzzle it does not belong in the dog park!
WOW Impressive post! Not really a lot of disagreement but..carrying on. Some dogs don't belong in Dog Parks true, doggie with the muzzle, never saw him but I'am pretty sure it's safe to say that is a Dominant dog! Had he "not" been muzzled I would bet money he would have found either the "other"
Dominant dog in the dog park or a submissive dog.

And (since names were dropped I'll bet that most of the dogs Cesar Millan works with on his shows are Dog Park dogs and they had "problems" at the dog park and now they show up on Cesar 911...just saying.

Three dogs who should not be in a dog park:

Three Dogs Who Shouldn’t Be at the Dog Park or Daycare | Robin Bennett

I had my BullMastiff/Lab Mix evaluated by a pro back in the day, he was deeded as Dominant but not aggressive! My Boxer was a confident balanced dog, she could have been a dog park dog had I been willing to put her at risk! My GSD...Dominant "Aggressive"
Male..."Rank" drive issues...did not need a pro for that one!

The only "challenge" my Boxer gave me (besides guest not behaving! was "convincing" her that a command was not a suggestion!

Struddell "seemed" to genuinely "like" other dogs the guys were "controlled" as was Struddell but the attitude was different pretty clear to see.

Muzzle dog, at least they are trying, they should be teaching him to ignore other dogs, that's what I did/do, hopefully they'll get help, something like this perhaps:

I never had any of the lunging snapping, pulling, craziness from my guys/girl, so I never had to deal with it. My guys were raised as puppies... problem boy GSD was a 7 month old rescue, so maybe that's why I had "issues" with him for awhile??

I've only been training my limited number of dogs for 15 years but for a more intensive argument against. I'd suggest that anyone that is curious check out the Leerburgh site for
"Why Dog Parks are a Bad Idea" got other points to cover later.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Lol, I tell people that all the time! That is one of the main reasons I can't see myself ever sending my Z to your standard doggy day care. I know that she is extremely dog friendly & would loooove to spend all day playing with other dogs, but I also know that not every dog wants to be "boxed" or wrestled with. Given that I know Ziva will smack other dogs around and will want to play rough I just don't think its appropriate for her to be playing with other dogs when neither I or those dogs owners are present.
Sounds like my girl! Nothing to add here!


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Totally agree with you here! Every breed definitely has its own characteristics that do show up when they play. GSDs tend to grab dogs by the back of the neck & push them to the ground,
Yeah kinda learned that the hard way to!



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herding dogs tend to run circles around other dogs, barking at them if they step out of their designated space, goldens are usually seen greeting every human in the park before finding a place to play fetch with their owner & boxers, of course, like to box.
Yeah I find most herders to be PIA most folks seem to be to lazy to train them! I did have a chance to train a pair, and they are indeed very bright dogs but a lot of work! So yeah know your breed!
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Well a lot of great information lol wow. I got to say I'm going to look into to compressed air that is a great ideal. All the talk about dog park and fights I will keep an eye her but I usually do. I do understand what you say chip18 about people on the phones and visiting while the dog roams fee i see this often. If you think about it kinda the same as the park for the kids some parents watch the kids and some let the roam wild. I like her to have the play time and the running she enjoys as long as there are no issues, if so it will be the end of her dog park days. She graduated last night in class and did very well around the other, but also the dog she does not care for was not there. So all around she had a good week.


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Old 05-02-2014, 11:57 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The truth is that every dog should know or learn how to protect themselves.
Ok apparently here we have a "fundamental disagreement!" "My" job is to protect my dog!

Zero encounters with "strange, loose, rouge dogs! Period, rest assured I'm not alone! Had my Struddell (my Boxer) "ever" been attacked by a dog! I'd have gone berserk! First the dog would have had to have gotten past me! Second I'd have gotten that dog off her and third had the owner been around I'd have gone after them!

LE,Lawyers and medical services would have been involved! "I" protect my dogs, they "know" I have there back. My first puppy Stewie was charged by an "ambush predator" AKA 90lbs pitt, he busted out of the front door of his house! I immediately swung my guy behind me and faced down the pitt! Owner scooped him up "problem solved!"

Other dogs aren't the only "danger" to your dog in a dog park, if your Dog Parking your dog
you need to beware of their owners:

Husky Killed by Off-Duty Cop

Some owners are wrapped to tight! Old story but the dog is still gone.
There are threads on the GSD forum "On what to do if your dog is attacked by another dog while on leash?" One posters policy is mace at 30 feet and 3 rounds at 5 feet! Not my policy but lots of states have concealed carry permits. Not a gun owner myself (though NV is one of those states) so a well trained dog is a very good option here!
It's kind of one of life's ironies, that some of the most aggressive "protect your dog people"
are GSD owners??

Anyway I always "protected my dog" I just had to refine my program with my GSD! "People issues" I dealt with a lot of crap with him unlike my Bully guys!

I found the Leerburgh site" " Who pets my Puppy or Dog" I kept people out of his face we ignored other dogs. Things I had pretty much always done. It's how my next Boxer will be trained.

My point?? I'm just a pet person not a pro but a working dog is a working dog! My GSD repaid me in an unexpected way for all the pain "literally" he put me through!

He did something that you would pay literally thousands of dollars to achieve! On a walk we came under attack by two loose dogs, I told him stay, I stepped in front, I shouted at the dogs one stopped the other one did not!

I braced for a hit! I slipped on the ice and went down! I fully expected to be hit! I heard a loud roar and saw flashing teeth! My guy stepped up to "protect me" no commands issued!

"Protect your dog" he knew what normal people/dog interaction looked like..he "knew" this was not it! The offending dog rethought his life choices and disappeared???

Struddell held station in the rear under control by my wife. I have no doubt a Boxer trained in the same manner would achieve the same performance!

If your dog is out there getting "punked" in a dog park...good luck with that! Full details for those that want to look. My user name GSD forum "What would my dog do??"

Not directed at anyone! just explaining my philosophy! Cost me nothing save for the time it took to read and execute the training!

I'll go to the mat for my guys...just saying!
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Well a lot of great information lol wow. I got to say I'm going to look into to compressed air that is a great ideal. All the talk about dog park and fights I will keep an eye her but I usually do. I do understand what you say chip18 about people on the phones and visiting while the dog roams fee i see this often. If you think about it kinda the same as the park for the kids some parents watch the kids and some let the roam wild. I like her to have the play time and the running she enjoys as long as there are no issues, if so it will be the end of her dog park days. She graduated last night in class and did very well around the other, but also the dog she does not care for was not there. So all around she had a good week.


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Bear spray or pepper spray a better option! Best still to only have her around know safe dogs!
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:10 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Just to note as I say my guys were trained to ignore other dogs but I did take my GSD to an on leash dog park. Some dogs are running loose but they were off in the distance and under control.

I saw a "truly" dog friendly Golden, it was amazing! The dog was holding a frisby and literally smiled! So much different than my dogs! My guys are "controlled" rock solid discipline!

The Golden looked happy, it brought tears to my eyes! So yeah my guys do miss out on playing with other dogs but they had me and each other. They were trained and knew how to behave but you could see the difference in a disciplined dog (none dog park) and a dog friendly dog! But I just can't take the chance of a bad encounter...so yeah.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Well a lot of great information lol wow. I got to say I'm going to look into to compressed air that is a great ideal. All the talk about dog park and fights I will keep an eye her but I usually do. I do understand what you say chip18 about people on the phones and visiting while the dog roams fee i see this often. If you think about it kinda the same as the park for the kids some parents watch the kids and some let the roam wild. I like her to have the play time and the running she enjoys as long as there are no issues, if so it will be the end of her dog park days. She graduated last night in class and did very well around the other, but also the dog she does not care for was not there. So all around she had a good week.
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Hooray!!! Congrats to both of you! So glad it went well!

Yes, the compressed air is awesome! I literally won't go to the dog park without it. Like I said, it won't stop an all out dog fight, but if you're paying attention and know when to step in it will definitely prevent one.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Bear spray or pepper spray a better option! Best still to only have her around know safe dogs!
Pepper spray is definitely a good thing to have in case a true fight ever does break out, and I keep meaning to get some, but I wouldn't give up my compressed air. Why? It truly can help prevent a fight from ever breaking out & has the ability to correct multiple dogs at once without anyone getting hurt. If two dogs are ganging up on one dog & that dog is overwhelmed, scared, etc but not actually hurt I wouldn't be spraying anyone with pepper spray, but I absolutely can spray that compressed air. It startles everyone just enough to make them stop for a second and most of the time that second is all you/they need.

Regarding dogs being able to defend themselves (your post was too long to quote lol):

Don't get me wrong, I am the first one to come to my dogs defense and I will get between her and any kind of danger any day of the week. Prior to carrying the compressed air I definitely pulled a dog or two off of her if I thought they were getting too rough & never once considered whether or not I could be hurt in the process. There's a dog at the farm where I keep my horses who attacked her twice the first day we moved in. She was leashed & standing right beside me but neither of us saw him coming. I pulled her back & got between them both times. Fortunately his owner then stopped him before he could hurt me, but better me than my pup! Ziva knows that I will protect her, but at the end of the day she also needs to know how to protect herself. Dogs are fast. If she's running through the dog park playing with her friends and gets in trouble before I can get to her (the dog park is three acres lol) she needs to be able to fight back. So far she hasn't had a problem (thank goodness!), but I'd hate for her to just lay there and take it, ya know?
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