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Old 03-15-2017, 10:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Question about DM status

I am researching breeders and have been getting mixed signals about the importance of DM status. I have been told by one that they would never breed an "at risk" with anything but a clear. However another who is a well respected member of several boxer clubs and who has had a couple of nationally ranked boxers claims that they are not worried about breeding an at risk to an at risk. They believe the results of Holter, Echo and Hips are the real concerns and the DM is less of a concern due to late life onset. I am confused and could use a little advice. Thanks
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Oh just saw this! You are "correct" in being concerned! And at risk to at risk is not really the way to go. If the dog will develop full blown "DM" it will most likely be in the 8 to ten year range??? Well clear of any "Health Guarantee."

70 % of Boxers carry the "DM" gene and the best practice by responsible "Breeders" is one clear and one DM carrier?? I think that's right.

Only "Breeder" that I know that has breeding clear parents ... is here! That would be "Kaco Boxers." : Home

One clear and one carrier is acceptable "apparently" and anyone that tells you otherwise ... is full of crap ... (In my opinion.)

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Old 03-17-2017, 08:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks! I appreciate the input. I have been told that one clear parent insures the next generation will not develop DM and since I will spay/neuter the line will stop with our pet. So I think I will look for a minimum of one clear parent. Do you have any knowledge of artificial insemination, specifically with sperm that has been frozen from a male that is no longer alive. I am being told the male lived to be 10+ years and was very healthy. Does this adversely affect the offspring's health or longevity?
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Old 03-18-2017, 01:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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At least one clear would be the next best way to go. As to rather or not the stats will go down for "DM" if more "Breeders" and "BYB's" would have to be in the mix. Only time wil tell.

As for your other question ... that is just "Wayyyy over my head! I will say that yes I belive that is done but that's about the extent of my knowledge. I only know about Dm becasue it claimed my Struddell ay hit hard at 8.5 years and she made it just barely to ten with a lot of effort on our part,

But I'll send a PM to Kaco and see it she'll chime in.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks again! I have heard nothing but great things about KACO and I appreciate your interest. I am from Western Kentucky and KACO is out of Canada so I'm not sure how that would work. Do you have any experience in bringing a pup into the US from Canada? I am trying to do as much research as possible to insure a healthy addition to our family. I used a BYB for my first Boxer and she only lived to be 6 and was never very healthy, Still she stole my heart and I will never have another breed. I have been researching for the last several months, attended an AKC show and will probably go to nationals in Indy. Do you know of any US Breeders, I am willing to wait months for the right situation
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would never touch a litter from a breeder who breeds 2 at risk parents. Of course it's not high on their list of concerns as DM is usually late onset and its not something they have to personally watch or deal with.

I would however still consider those who breed a clear to an at risk as the entire litter would only be carriers and at minimal risk for actually getting the disease. If dealing with two carriers I would want the puppies all tested prior to making your selection.

I am fortunate that all the dogs in our breeding program are DM clear.

As for your question on a breeder using frozen semen, this is actually more common than you think. I myself have a couple boys on ice the same applies, ask for copies of health testing results.
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thank You, and yes at risk to at risk ... before "issues" show up ... the "breeders" are well clear of it being there problem. I'm gonna say seven to eight years down the road or so.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Aliboo, I would invest in a 25.00 genetic test for DM , they send you a mouth swab.
You will have results in a few days. I use GenSol diagnostics'
You will need registration numbers.
good luck.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliboo View Post
Thanks again! I have heard nothing but great things about KACO and I appreciate your interest. I am from Western Kentucky and KACO is out of Canada so I'm not sure how that would work. Do you have any experience in bringing a pup into the US from Canada? I am trying to do as much research as possible to insure a healthy addition to our family. I used a BYB for my first Boxer and she only lived to be 6 and was never very healthy, Still she stole my heart and I will never have another breed. I have been researching for the last several months, attended an AKC show and will probably go to nationals in Indy. Do you know of any US Breeders, I am willing to wait months for the right situation
Aww ... newly arrived BYB Boxer owner?? First I want to say so sorry for your loss, a lot of us fully understand what that's like.

But your not alone ... falling in luv with BYB Boxers ... is pretty much like ... Welcome to the HeartBreak express! I'm a member ... first time ... one week, Hidi Brindle Boxer. We picked her up locally, went for a vet check the next morning and she had "Parvo!" The right choice ... I suppose was to say ... deal is off ... here's your freakin puppy back! But we just could not do that ...
we fought and lost ... "Heidi" lasted a week. Vet trips during the dog and IV's at home during the night. She was a trooper, she would barf on newspaper, and would potty in the same area outside ... most likely that saved "Struddel" one year later. But Heidi ... only lasted a week she was game but just to small. She passed away in my arms on a Thursday night many many years ago. Broke my heart .... Heidi is on my shelf with Struddell. ):

Then round two ... second BYB puppy (I still had no idea what that was???)
And then came ... "Struddell!" BYB Boxer number two! We did much better with her ... this time at least ... I had 8.5 years of good memories!! So much so that on the Germanshepardforum ... I'm that PIA ... Boxer guy!

But with "Struddell" at 8.5 ... DM struck her down?? I got "sandbagged" still with pretty much 24 hour care ... we managed to barely drag her across the 10 year mark.

Boxers ... can be a pretty heart breaking breed to fall in Luv with .... but they leave a mark on your heart .... Other than DM ... "Struddell" was otherwise healthy. But when it happened I was ... just lost and coping ... I had no clue???

But I don't play favorites ... not every "BYB" Boxers out there have health issues but ... the fact of the matter is that "DM" runs rampant in the "Breed!"
So if I see someone that is aware of that fact and want to avoid ... at least that issue ... I take notice. If someone is aware of "Boxers" frankly, numerous health issues (Cancer in a Box) and are trying to avoid ... them I try and help them.

If "DM" is a primary concern for you??? Clear to Clear and you have "Zero" chance of that issue happening! I did see at least one US Breeder that does that but I lost track of them ... my bad. Option two ... one Clear and One Carrier ... if "kari (Kaco) says that is acceptable ... that is good enough for me. But ... "Kari" is here all the time and the questions you are asking ... she is going to be your best source for answers!

And for me ... sigh ... "Boxers" are complicated ... by all rights I ought to favor based on my work with my "Over Sized Working Line GSD" ... trial by fire experiance there ... I don't recommend them! But based on that experiance I should be a full Euro Boxer guy??


But ... I tend to think of a full Euro Boxer as a "WL GSD" in a Boxer suit??? That ... is "not" an experiance I am looking for with a "Boxer." But I have never met nor worked with a full "Euro Boxer" so ... I have no idea??? Struddell was "100" percent American ... and "Goofy" reigned supreme ... I luv'd it!!

I have not had the opportunity to work with any female Boxer, Euro or Combos there of (the girls are different) but I have worked with a few Euro/American Males and I have found them pretty easy to deal with in rescue ... regardless of "claimed issues" by others.

I think ... Kaco does 50/50 also ... American/Euro Boxers. And her girls ...are just so freaking cute!! I fully understand how and what dogs need ie ... "Rules/Discipline and Structure" ... I'm pretty good at that stuff now ... vie a "beat down by my first" Over Size Working Line GSD ... another story!

But ... if I had a "KacoBoxer" and a girl?? Sigh .... most likely all that "stuff" would go out the window??? Marilyn used to say ... my eyes would twinkle whenever she would say "Struddells" name.

So yessss ... I ... would luv'd to see me "Crating" ... despite the advise I give to others, a "Kaco" Euro/American girl??? Boxers ... as I tend to view them ... are not a "breed" about logic??

Hmm ... well a slightly wild tangent here but ...back on pointe .... ask "Kari" about the shipping thing. If you are aware of and looking for a quality health tested "Boxer" then that is what should get.

And as regards the "DM" test for whatever puppy you have found locally ... yes in my "opinion" testing for DM" is a viable option for at least eliminating ... that issue with a "BYB."
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