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Old 01-09-2013, 03:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Angry Crazy Boxer House- Help!


We have 2 Boxer girls. Kita is 3 years old and I've had her all 3 years. Derby is our new puppy. She is 6 month's old and has a lot of the "puppy" manorisms which we are struggling with.

(1.) My boyfriend and I both work and are gone from 7:30am-5:30pm. Every single time we get home there are ALWAYS accidents. Pees, Poops, things torn apart. I've tried the sprays, the grassy poop pad, normal pee pads,the urine killer spray, etc. I've spent hundreds in products and nothing is working. They have all been torn into shreds. My 3 year old is terrified of crates and has broken out of 4 already(which is getting expensive). Crate training is not an option. I'm pretty sure it's an anxiety issue or they just can't hold it long enough. How do I train them to use a single spot in the house if they really do have to go without them shredding it apart? Are there any products or ideas? Also how can I help their anxiety? Again I'm tried the Anxiety collar as well as the drops in the water.

(2.) Next, We are working on Kita's issue with other dogs. She is very protective and goes after any dog that is too close except for Derby. This has gotten really bad since Derby has joined the family. Any advice to helping this problem or why she could be doing it?

(3.) Last, Having some trouble with Derby recognizing we are the Alfa in the house. She chooses not to listen 90% of the time even though we know she understands the commands. Kita never had trouble with this when she was a puppy so I'm struggling to put a fix to it fast.

Any help at all would be fantastic... I'm only using this to help the chances of training her without another expense of a personal trainer. Because sometimes I just feel like doing this...

Please only be informative and not judgemental. Thank you in advance :-)
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Don't take this as judgmental, just bare bones fact.

(1) A puppy can't go 7:30am-5:30pm with no potty break. Period. No amount of training/cleaning products is going to change that. You need to make arrangements to come home at lunch time or find someone to let them out midway through the day.

(2.) If Kita's dog aggression is escalating, I would be worried that at some point Kita may go after Derby if they are both loose while you are gone, especially as Derby matures. Female/female boxer pairings are not ideal and have the most potential for aggression. Things can start out fine and then turn bad months later. Did you do any research before deciding on a second boxer puppy? Same sex pairings for boxers are always discouraged, but especially female/female.

(3.) There is no "fast fix" for Derby not recognizing you as being in charge. That's typical boxer puppy behavior and she's entering adolescence. It's only going to get worse before it gets better. Sounds like you were lucky with Kita, but pretty much every owner of a boxer puppy hits the "terrible teens" and hates it. You should google NILF (nothing in life is free) training and study up. If that doesn't help, a trainer would be your best bet.

I'm wondering if you really thought out the consequences of getting a puppy. All puppies are hard work, but boxers especially so. They require much more time, exercise, training and attention than most other breeds of puppies. It's not ideal to be gone eight hours straight each day when you get a boxer puppy, and their puppy behaviors take lots of time and repetitive consistency to get a handle on things. You want a quick fix and there is not usually a quick anything when it comes to molding boxer puppy behavior. They can be really stubborn and frustrating. I'm still dealing with a monster four years in and he shows no signs of slowing down. We've tried training classes and personal trainers. It doesn't help that he has OCD and ADHD behaviors. He's exhausting. Last night at midnight, he was tearing around the house barking and pouncing on everyone. He's the sole reason we won't ever do another young boxer and why we put all our time into senior rescue and hospice now.
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Saba ~???-7/28/11~ ♥
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Lillie ~3/10/05-1/17/12~ ♥
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Barkley ~2000-2/28/13~ ♥
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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1)As far as puppy goes... she should be in a crate when you are not there to supervise. This will reference to #3 also... your pup is doing what she wants all day long!! Every time she gets something she wants, her reward is "she gets to chew it" .. she rewards her own "bad" behaviours!! By crating her she will only have free access when you are there to direct her!! That way you can reward the behaviours you want to keep! Redirect and ignore the behaviour you no longer want!

2)As far as Kita goes.. is she be protective of your new pup maybe?? My female boxer is good but if I have my little girl with us on a walk, she does get protective and "aggressive" .. We have worked on it and she is much better. I just find boxers to be very protective of their families, if and when they feel they need too.

I hope that this helps a little good luck! But it all works in full circle if that makes sense. I highly suggest crate training.. I think you will see a huge difference right away.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hi Kgast.,
Lots of energy in your home. I have a few questions that might help me a bit to understand more the dynamics in your home.

What was your first boxer like prior to your new puppy?
Was she a calm dog? Was she wired? What is Kita's personality like?
Why did you get a new puppy? I prefer having two boxers so I am not questioning or judging just curious...
What have been your expectations?
Is this puppy new at 6 months or did you get this puppy at 8 weeks?
How long have you had Derby?
Have they had any training?
What was Kita like before Derby? Did she have accidents?


If possible could you hire someone to come to the house two times a day? Maybe a dog walker. A responsible teenager to walk the dog. I would try to use the crate for the younger puppy. Another option might be doggie day care. That way your home stays intact and the dogs are cared for.

Derby not listening to you....
I think the Derby has an Alpha and that is Kita not you. This can be changed but I think the dynamics going on when you are not home is more accurate of who she sees as the boss.

And Kita is behaving as though she is in charge when you are on walks by going after other dogs. If possible and this takes time... take Kita out on walks alone without Derby. And take her in situations with other dogs. But, bring her favorite treat. She gets a treat every time she ignores the other dog. This might be hard at first. You might try going to the vet, (let them know before hand) you might try asking a friend with a dog to walk on the other side of the street so Kita sees the other dog. Firmly but lovingly put Kita in a down or sit position and offer treats to distract her. Keep calm and firm. If she goes crazy put in her in a down or sit position and remain calm. If she ignores the other dogs give her a treat. Start at first giving her the treat while she sees the other dog but gradually use this to get her attention away. And slowly (this could takes weeks) get her to want the snack rather than the excitement of the other dog.

I have a few more ideas.. but hubbie has just called me. I must disappear but I will be back.

Don't give up. I know this is rough. You love your dogs and want this to work. It will. It just takes some time, energy and hardwork.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hi!!

Those are all great questions. Kita was high energy and had a lot of anxiety issues. She hated when we left and would pee automatically as soon as we left the house because she got nervous. That was one of the reasons we decided she needed a companion to help ease her anxiety. Kita did very well with the puppy Joining the family. Her accidents stopped almost immediately, her temperament calmed and they play and get along great. I knew what I was getting into getting a puppy. She obviously has the normal puppy things but its not so normal the amount of accidents she has in this time frame. We can come home to 3 poops(we have a dog camera and watch them on our phones all day long) We got her when she was 5 months old and basically rescued her from an awful breeder. She had round worms, tape worms, ear mites, skin mites, a parasite of some sort I can't remember exactly what it was called. it took lots of medicine to cure her but she is perfectly healthy now. We had her for about 2 months now and we are still having some problems we would like to try and control or contain to an area of the house. We are looking at the costs for a dog walker but Baltimore isn't the safest place to trust people to enter your home and we just moved here in the summer so we don't know many people. I totally agree with you. Kita is the alpha, and i need to fix that quickly!! I do appreciate all your suggestions about kita and other dogs. I will try it immediately. You've been very helpful. Thank you for understanding and offering input to help me solve this issue


Quote:
Originally Posted by BayernBoxer View Post
Hi Kgast.,
Lots of energy in your home. I have a few questions that might help me a bit to understand more the dynamics in your home.

What was your first boxer like prior to your new puppy?
Was she a calm dog? Was she wired? What is Kita's personality like?
Why did you get a new puppy? I prefer having two boxers so I am not questioning or judging just curious...
What have been your expectations?
Is this puppy new at 6 months or did you get this puppy at 8 weeks?
How long have you had Derby?
Have they had any training?
What was Kita like before Derby? Did she have accidents?


If possible could you hire someone to come to the house two times a day? Maybe a dog walker. A responsible teenager to walk the dog. I would try to use the crate for the younger puppy. Another option might be doggie day care. That way your home stays intact and the dogs are cared for.

Derby not listening to you....
I think the Derby has an Alpha and that is Kita not you. This can be changed but I think the dynamics going on when you are not home is more accurate of who she sees as the boss.

And Kita is behaving as though she is in charge when you are on walks by going after other dogs. If possible and this takes time... take Kita out on walks alone without Derby. And take her in situations with other dogs. But, bring her favorite treat. She gets a treat every time she ignores the other dog. This might be hard at first. You might try going to the vet, (let them know before hand) you might try asking a friend with a dog to walk on the other side of the street so Kita sees the other dog. Firmly but lovingly put Kita in a down or sit position and offer treats to distract her. Keep calm and firm. If she goes crazy put in her in a down or sit position and remain calm. If she ignores the other dogs give her a treat. Start at first giving her the treat while she sees the other dog but gradually use this to get her attention away. And slowly (this could takes weeks) get her to want the snack rather than the excitement of the other dog.

I have a few more ideas.. but hubbie has just called me. I must disappear but I will be back.

Don't give up. I know this is rough. You love your dogs and want this to work. It will. It just takes some time, energy and hardwork.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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MY GOODNess. You just got little Derby a few months ago. This is transition time!!! Of course you are exhausted. The first year is full of changes and adjustments. Do not be hard on yourself. You are on the right track. I love that you have a video camera and can observe what is going on. Good for you.

Now that I know a bit more about Kita, I truly think you can solve much of this. She needs a leader and right now is under pressure to be a mom of sorts to Derby. They are going to be great friends. And your will have your peace of mind back and of course your home. I think the accident load (poos) is not that unusual for a young dog under a year. You might consider using Kita as a source for Derby to observe. Have Derby sit with a leash or in a crate while you load up attention and training with Kita. Invite Derby to join you at the end but only if she is on a lead and willing to cooperate with you and Kita. Sit, Stay, settle... all those little tricks and treasures. Derby is going to want to be a part of the fun and slowly show her that you are the boss with the treats and praise.

Try getting up super early before work and walking them both until they are exhausted. This is in liu of a dog walker. It won't solve the accidents but it might help with any anxiety and help with some of the stress that may occur when no one is home. And of course when you return from work walk then a shorter walk and maybe some training and then play time. Kita may always be protective and dog aggressive to others but I would work with her on this. The ideas I suggested above are key. Baby steps. Reward her for being friendly which might not be in her nature with new or different dogs around her. Just know that it can get out of hand if ignored or worse if encouraged. I would avoid dog parks but rather find a training class or even a good dog trainer that can work with her.

I honestly think you are just overwhelmed. We all get that way in various stages of our boxer's lives. And you are in the puppy hood of one and the teen years of the other. Hang in there you are doing a great job! Enjoy your boxer babies!
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm bumping this because it was the best bit of information given out in this thread and it seems to have gone overlooked. If arrangements can't be made for someone to let her out during the day you should be crating.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WholeLottaBoxers View Post
Don't take this as judgmental, just bare bones fact.

(1) A puppy can't go 7:30am-5:30pm with no potty break. Period. No amount of training/cleaning products is going to change that. You need to make arrangements to come home at lunch time or find someone to let them out midway through the day.

(2.) If Kita's dog aggression is escalating, I would be worried that at some point Kita may go after Derby if they are both loose while you are gone, especially as Derby matures. Female/female boxer pairings are not ideal and have the most potential for aggression. Things can start out fine and then turn bad months later. Did you do any research before deciding on a second boxer puppy? Same sex pairings for boxers are always discouraged, but especially female/female.

(3.) There is no "fast fix" for Derby not recognizing you as being in charge. That's typical boxer puppy behavior and she's entering adolescence. It's only going to get worse before it gets better. Sounds like you were lucky with Kita, but pretty much every owner of a boxer puppy hits the "terrible teens" and hates it. You should google NILF (nothing in life is free) training and study up. If that doesn't help, a trainer would be your best bet.

I'm wondering if you really thought out the consequences of getting a puppy. All puppies are hard work, but boxers especially so. They require much more time, exercise, training and attention than most other breeds of puppies. It's not ideal to be gone eight hours straight each day when you get a boxer puppy, and their puppy behaviors take lots of time and repetitive consistency to get a handle on things. You want a quick fix and there is not usually a quick anything when it comes to molding boxer puppy behavior. They can be really stubborn and frustrating. I'm still dealing with a monster four years in and he shows no signs of slowing down. We've tried training classes and personal trainers. It doesn't help that he has OCD and ADHD behaviors. He's exhausting. Last night at midnight, he was tearing around the house barking and pouncing on everyone. He's the sole reason we won't ever do another young boxer and why we put all our time into senior rescue and hospice now.
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Last edited by RandE; 01-10-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This wasn't ignored. I have no interest in acknowledging the rude comments in it. I asked for information only not judgements and to be told I didn't do any research and haven't thought about the consquences of having a puppy when I own 2... just plain rude. Not one of those 2 lines is informative or facts. It's just an opinion and it's not a good one.

We are looking into dog walkers which is pretty much another car payment ($300 is the minimum for 2 dogs that i have seen in Baltimore). MY question which also seems to go overlooked as well is how to train them to use one spot in the house and any product that would work. (ie potty pad)

I appreciate all the positive feedback and choose to comment on those. Thank you for your advice on crating or dog walker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RandE View Post
I'm bumping this because it was the best bit of information given out in this thread and it seems to have gone overlooked. If arrangements can't be made for someone to let her out during the day you should be crating.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgast976 View Post
This wasn't ignored. I have no interest in acknowledging the rude comments in it. I asked for information only not judgements and to be told I didn't do any research and haven't thought about the consquences of having a puppy when I own 2... just plain rude. Not one of those 2 lines is informative or facts. It's just an opinion and it's not a good one.

We are looking into dog walkers which is pretty much another car payment ($300 is the minimum for 2 dogs that i have seen in Baltimore). MY question which also seems to go overlooked as well is how to train them to use one spot in the house and any product that would work. (ie potty pad)

I appreciate all the positive feedback and choose to comment on those. Thank you for your advice on crating or dog walker.
You were the one who said you wanted to "put a fix to it fast." Even BASIC research on boxer puppies would have told you that is typically NOT going to happen unless you have a wonder pup who just gets everything right the first time around.

My comments were not meant to be rude, but I don't waste time sugar-coating everything for people either. It's ridiculous to want to train your dogs to use the bathroom in one particular spot in the house because that only reinforces that it's okay to go in the house. Puppy pads are worthless for that reason alone.

If you can't be home to let your dog out as often as is necessary or can't make arrangements, you have no business owning a dog.

How's that for rude?
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Jake ~1/1/98-10/31/08~ ♥
Saba ~???-7/28/11~ ♥
Baby ~1998-11/25/11~ ♥
Lillie ~3/10/05-1/17/12~ ♥
Sadie ~2001-2/14/12~ ♥
Chief ~1998-2/20/12~ ♥
Barkley ~2000-2/28/13~ ♥
Maggie ~1999-4/22/13~ ♥
Honey ~2004-12/4/13~ ♥
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Listen Lady,

Like I said. I have no time for your RUDE comments. I've owned a dog for 3 years, i'm not new to this. AND I SAVED THIS DOG FROM BEING ABUSED AND NEGLECTED. I guess you would rather see the poor dog suffer than be with someone who is looking to train the dog to pee in one spot. You are full of worthless information. Please get off of my thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WholeLottaBoxers View Post
You were the one who said you wanted to "put a fix to it fast." Even BASIC research on boxer puppies would have told you that is typically NOT going to happen unless you have a wonder pup who just gets everything right the first time around.

My comments were not meant to be rude, but I don't waste time sugar-coating everything for people either. It's ridiculous to want to train your dogs to use the bathroom in one particular spot in the house because that only reinforces that it's okay to go in the house. Puppy pads are worthless for that reason alone.

If you can't be home to let your dog out as often as is necessary or can't make arrangements, you have no business owning a dog.

How's that for rude?
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