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Old 03-17-2009, 03:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HannaBanana
18% of white puppies are deaf in one ear(unilaterally deaf). 12% of white puppies are deaf in both ears (bilaterially deaf). That means OVER 80% OF WHITE BOXERS ARE NOT DEAF!
This is correct. My number was actually lower -- more in the 10%ile....
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _tara_
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully
You're brave trashing white boxers on this board. I'll be over here in the corner but good luck with all that....
I'm sorry you see my post as 'bashing'. But, to the contrary, my post addresses the facts; white boxers are more prone to deafness. This isn't something I made up...it's a clearly documented fact. Judging by your sig, I assume you have a white boxer. I can only assume that you were well aware of the possible health issues your dog is susceptible to before you got the dog. I also assume that you are aware of the fact that white boxers are not allowed in the show ring, nor are they used for breeding. There is a reason for this....and the reason is health. I am sure you aren't saying that boxer breeders shouldn't work toward a healthier boxer less prone to illness, only that you love your dog....and rightly so!
Mine's an american bulldog. Everyone knows white boxers can't be shown, this isn't news to us. Most dogs wouldn't make the show circuit period so what's the difference. Most white boxers are perfectly healthy. You are entitled to your opinion and even if all your facts are in line, I just think it's poor form to sign up on a boxer board and advocate the elimination of a certain type of boxers.
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _tara_
I am not in support of culling or destroying them. I am in favor of taking the colour white out of the gene pool to begin with.
Okay, well at least you don't want them all destroyed.....just to never be born

If the AKC is starting to acknowledge whites and allow them limited registration (which Lola is) then why not support that? Like I said, I know nothing about breeding and boxer standards....but I think it would be sad if whites were fazed out because a handful of them are deaf.

I'm wondering.....do you now own boxer(s)? Are you a breeder? Maybe you could start another posts and tell us about your dogs, lighten the mood a little.
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Awww. .. i actually LOVE the white Boxers. I have a fawn boy but i will specifically be getting a white Boxer next because i think they are just too adorable. . .fact that some ppl think they should be illiminated is very sad, they have as much right to be born and loved as the coloured Boxers.

And if my next Boxer happens to be deaf, well that is something that i will embrace and train them, just because they are deaf doesnt mean that they are stupid.

And why will i be getting a white Boxer, because i want to.
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle
deafness is a hiActually I don't think that's true at all. White Boxers are no more or less healthy than their colored counterparts; gher risk but deaf dogs of any color cannot compete in the conformation ring. Historically whites were culled because it was thought they carried the undesirable Bulldog traits; myths about their "ill health" cropped up over the decades, but these were never shown to be true. Today, of course, we know better, and whites are prohibited from showing and breeding simply because of tradition and long-ingrained bias. (And lest there be any confusion, I should clearly state here that until and unless the Code of Ethics changes, I do not support breeding white Boxers. )
Do you see the Code of Ethics every changing along with the new perspectives? If so, how? If not, why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle
Breeders who see it as a problem are already doing so, by including one plain parent in a breeding (this will fail a small percentage of the time, due to modifiers, but for the majority of cases it will avoid producing white puppies).
Indeed. The modifiers will show up now and again, but at a much less frequency then they do in practice now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle
I do not see it as a problem. Granted, if I knew the lines I was using produced a high incidence of deafness, I would take a different approach,
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle
but since they seem to produce a lower than average incidence, I see no reason to further narrow my options when I'm already eliminating so many because of health issues that actually have an affect on the dog.
Do you think that with a change in the preference in the ring for flash, a decrease in the production of white dogs will follow?
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
I am in favor of taking the colour white out of the gene pool to begin with.
Why?
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

I am confused as the title of the post was "Biggest Health Hurdle for boxer breeders" and dont know why whites seem to be it because I dont see it as a hurdle. I would like to hear your theories on

Heart / Temperment
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:36 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Before I continue, I would like to say that I can appreciate the emotions in this thread. We are all very attached to our pooches and it's easy to take offense in a thread like this where a particular type of dog is singled out. I know you all love your dogs -- I love mine, too. But, this discussion is not personal -- it is intended to discuss issues affecting boxers as whole, hence the reason I posted it in the Breeding Info section of the forum.
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HannaBanana
I am confused as the title of the post was "Biggest Health Hurdle for boxer breeders" and dont know why whites seem to be it because I dont see it as a hurdle. I would like to hear your theories on

Heart / Temperment
Thank you! I think my opinion on the white modifiers is clear. Let's move on!
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Do you see the Code of Ethics every changing along with the new perspectives? If so, how? If not, why?
Absolutely. My guess is that it will be a three- or four-step process; first, breeders will be allowed to treat white Boxers the same as colored pets (right now they're not quite there; restrictions are in place for whites that are not there for colored pets). Second, breeders will be permitted to use a white Boxer in a breeding pairing, provided the other dog is plain. Third, white Boxers will be permitted in the show ring, perhaps as a separate variety. Finally, white Boxers will be treated equally as colored Boxers - some pets, some not; some bred to plains, some bred to flashies, some bred to whites. (The second and third steps might occur in reverse order, or simultaneously.)

I look at the Bull Terrier as a model; they have the same genetics and incidence of deafness as Boxers, they allow their white dogs to be shown and bred, yet they are not overrun with deaf whites and as far as I can tell the incidence of deafness has not increased over time.

Quote:
Do you think that with a change in the preference in the ring for flash, a decrease in the production of white dogs will follow?
Not in the breed as a whole. Among those who breed to what wins, yes, and we've seen this a bit since a plain brindle went Winners at the National Specialty a few years ago. Most breeders, however, are actually breeding for correctness, and so have always used the best dog for their bitch regardless of paint job; the incidence of white puppies has stayed at about 20-25% overall for several decades, regardless of the trends in markings.
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