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Old 03-17-2009, 06:35 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Right - the DM research, for instance (which was largely funded by the ABCF ) is now being used for ALS research in humans.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 174124.htm
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:52 PM   #52 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle
Right - the DM research, for instance (which was largely funded by the ABCF ) is now being used for ALS research in humans.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 174124.htm
Oh geez...you had to go and mention ALS. A dear friend of mine is stricken and we will be blessed with his presence for only another short while. Go ABCF and DM research!
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:54 PM   #53 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

as most of you know Daisy has cardiomyopathy, she is only 2 1/2 years old . I got her from Craigs list and she was living in a 2 bedroom apartment in Quincy MA. I really wish I knew her health record but lo and behold no one could find the vet papers for her. She did come to me unspayed and just looking at her with the underbite and two teeth sticking up and her tounge that goes on forever and sticks out when she is sleeping etc, I knew she would not be bred. anything we can do to have them healthy and happy and us not worrying about her collapsing and holding her head and chanting just breathe, just breathe, its ok its ok, is worth her dna. I swear its the longest 20-30 seconds ever... Thank goodness for testing.
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:01 PM   #54 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

The colour of a dog is not IMO an issue as far as health is concerned. Deafness is not a health issue - it is classed as "disability" and a dog can live a very full and good quality of life with the right owner. I know!
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:11 PM   #55 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy003
as most of you know Daisy has cardiomyopathy, she is only 2 1/2 years old . I got her from Craigs list and she was living in a 2 bedroom apartment in Quincy MA. I really wish I knew her health record but lo and behold no one could find the vet papers for her. She did come to me unspayed and just looking at her with the underbite and two teeth sticking up and her tounge that goes on forever and sticks out when she is sleeping etc, I knew she would not be bred. anything we can do to have them healthy and happy and us not worrying about her collapsing and holding her head and chanting just breathe, just breathe, its ok its ok, is worth her dna. I swear its the longest 20-30 seconds ever... Thank goodness for testing.
I am so sorry you are going through this. I can't imagine how difficult it might be. I truly do look forward to the day when people and dogs, suffering as you do, are few and far between. Best of luck, and.....thank goodness for testing, indeed!
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:12 PM   #56 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tootsie
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdiamonddawg
Then we can move to people because like myself being a diabetic, I have a "chance" of giving it to any offspring I may have.
I love these debates....but I often find myself wondering about all these health tests that are being performed on these dogs. Don't get me wrong, I am definitely a huge advocate for health testing, but I often wonder if we take things a bit far with the animals.
Like msdiamonddawg just got me pondering ....we don't do all these tests on humans. Why are we spending so much money on testing dogs? Now calm down... I really know the answer to that question, but it really gets me thinking. There has been heart issues within my family, cancer, and probably a few other health issues in my genes, but yet I chose to have kids and ultimately take the chance of passing on those health issues to my kids. Why??? For my own selfish need to have kids? It just doesn't all make sense to me. Like I said, I am a huge advocate for health testing before breeding and breeding only to better the breed, but this all just gets me thinking too deep.

I've always thought along these lines - heart problems and cancer runs in my family also. In fact eilepsy and depression has thrown itself into the mix occasionally -so now you have me thinking| The difference is - the majority of us give our families support and hep them. If a dog gets problems some people will give up. Some people give up at the first hurdle - something as simple as potty training!

I would happily re home another dog with Arbie's health issues - but that dog will have been given up by someone else because they can't handle them. That is the main reason I want issues of health being looked into. If anything happened to me and Keith - who is going to take on Arbie?
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:44 AM   #57 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

I know the topics in this post are sensitive to some, but I have to admit, I find it interesting.

After watching the aforementioned video, I felt pretty sad about owing (and falling in love with) such a highly bred/engineered animal. My first boxer died of Mast Cell Cancer at a young 9 years of age. Not a day goes by that I don't think about him, and will always feel a bit guilty about how he died after his second surgery for his MCT. I know he suffered in the final month leading up to that, so I will never forget any of it.

So while deafness is merely a disability, I have to admit, it is often hard enough to find good homes for dogs that are considered less of a special need case. I would never suggest that a white boxer is less desirable, and to many, they are more so. I guess I would have to argue it might be easier to home pets who do not have a disability by changing the beauty standard, that's worth consideration, no? Something to consider.

Also, I think the breed preferences have changed so much over the years (and between continents), that it's worth examining what makes our boxers unhealthy, and try to eliminate those traits, regardless of what our current beauty standard is! This is why research is important. For example, if the deep chest in American style boxers is considered to be tied to bloat (or whatever, I'm essentially making this up), then we should try to tweak our beauty preferences in the show ring, right? I realize that the show ring is supposed to reward the dogs who most closely resemble the breed standard, but we all know judging is subjective, and human beings have preferences. Historically, I think we can see that preferences have changed.

I get this discussion, it's compelling. I know very little of breeding and showing dogs. I only think about it on the basis of my love for the breed and my dogs (and yours) and hope that we can bring "great overall health with very few complications" to the breed description in the foreseeable future! If we can select for intelligence, a smooshed face and tight toes, we can also select for "healthy-as-an-ox", right?
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:42 AM   #58 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Got lucky, I could not agree more...why keep breeding dogs that have known health issues? It really seems like such a cruel thing to do when a standard can change. Why make dogs that have breathing problems or extra skin folds?

This is where the "beauty" of a dog show really should be about what will make a dog healthy. If there are traits that breeders are desiring that cause health issues, why keep that standard? Change it.
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:59 AM   #59 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotlucky
I know the topics in this post are sensitive to some, but I have to admit, I find it interesting.

After watching the aforementioned video, I felt pretty sad about owing (and falling in love with) such a highly bred/engineered animal. My first boxer died of Mast Cell Cancer at a young 9 years of age. Not a day goes by that I don't think about him, and will always feel a bit guilty about how he died after his second surgery for his MCT. I know he suffered in the final month leading up to that, so I will never forget any of it.

So while deafness is merely a disability, I have to admit, it is often hard enough to find good homes for dogs that are considered less of a special need case. I would never suggest that a white boxer is less desirable, and to many, they are more so. I guess I would have to argue it might be easier to home pets who do not have a disability by changing the beauty standard, that's worth consideration, no? Something to consider.

Also, I think the breed preferences have changed so much over the years (and between continents), that it's worth examining what makes our boxers unhealthy, and try to eliminate those traits, regardless of what our current beauty standard is! This is why research is important. For example, if the deep chest in American style boxers is considered to be tied to bloat (or whatever, I'm essentially making this up), then we should try to tweak our beauty preferences in the show ring, right? I realize that the show ring is supposed to reward the dogs who most closely resemble the breed standard, but we all know judging is subjective, and human beings have preferences. Historically, I think we can see that preferences have changed.

I get this discussion, it's compelling. I know very little of breeding and showing dogs. I only think about it on the basis of my love for the breed and my dogs (and yours) and hope that we can bring "great overall health with very few complications" to the breed description in the foreseeable future! If we can select for intelligence, a smooshed face and tight toes, we can also select for "healthy-as-an-ox", right?
Great post. I couldn't agree more.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:42 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Biggest Health hurdle for Boxer Breeders?

oooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!

hold up why didnt someone friggin call me? im reading on page 2 !! then ill lose my mind page 4 !! this is WOW...

im an east coast italian chic...i do not sugar coat anything !

my girl is all white.. 2 blue eyes and totally deaf ! but guess what?

she came from a BREEDER !! that used her for a puppy machine !

she knew NOTHING( kept in a concrete outdoor kennel 24/7) ..for 4 yrs..was emaciated and terribly sick...NOT b/c she's friggin WHITE...

she is now 8...a thereapy dog for my austitic son..awesome @ MANY commands and NO ONE EVER knows shes deaf b/c shes so incredibly well behaved and intelligent !

what other health problems does she have?

well lets see.... NONE !!!

she was poorly bred, abused, neglected on and on..shes white and deaf

at 8 yrs old...shes PERFECTLY HEALTHY.. !!!! and YES ive had EXTENSIVE tests done

with the amount of whiteys were have on the forum ask around !!!

NOT ONE OF THESE WHITEYS HAVE HEALTH ISSUES THAT YOU ARE "CLAIMING" THEY HAVE

only thing you are claiming as UNHEALTHY is deafness which is NOT a HEALTH issue...its a defect..thats it !

onto more reading
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