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Old 10-07-2018, 05:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by benthe bandit View Post
Working the dog doesn’t drive the genetics, the boxer is genetically already a working dog. A non “working line” puppy can be trained to work

Wouldn't it be nice if that was really true!
Not just for boxers for other breeds as well... GSD, Labs, pointer...

Working the dog doesn't drive the genetics. But, genetics (ability to work) do play a part in the breeding from working breeders.

Can a non working line boxer "work".. sure but they are more the exception to the rule.
If someone want to do sport/comp with a boxer why take a chance on a non working breeder?

If what you say was true... Every GSD would be a police dog.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:41 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Some interesting thoughts – if what you say is true, then every GSD pup from a working line will pass as a police dog, not sure where the facts come from that a non-working line boxer can make it but this would be an exception, a boxer is by nature a working dog. Then again, pups from a so called working line do not always meet expectations.
Working dogs does not necessarily mean IPO or Shutzhund, I’m not sure if our discussion is on this.
Police are favoring the Malinois over the GSD because they are more eager to work and learn faster – a Malinois would not be a good choice for a novice dog owner – not quite the right “personality” because they are the way they are, not because they are from a working dog line.
Boxers should be worked, they need it and they need to be kept mentally and physically occupied and it’s always good to have a dog that listens and behaves when needed.
Working dogs is sport, the dogs enjoy it and it’s good to have a controlled dog. It’s also used as a selling point, a dog with tiles sells pups at a higher price.
My view is that a trainer / helper is the key to get the most out of a working dog breed – these can also be pups from a non or limited “working dog” line
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:49 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Some interesting thoughts – if what you say is true, then every GSD pup from a working line will pass as a police dog, not sure where the facts come from that a non-working line boxer can make it but this would be an exception, a boxer is by nature a working dog. Then again, pups from a so called working line do not always meet expectations.
Working dogs does not necessarily mean IPO or Shutzhund, I’m not sure if our discussion is on this.
Police are favoring the Malinois over the GSD because they are more eager to work and learn faster – a Malinois would not be a good choice for a novice dog owner – not quite the right “personality” because they are the way they are, not because they are from a working dog line.
Boxers should be worked, they need it and they need to be kept mentally and physically occupied and it’s always good to have a dog that listens and behaves when needed.
Working dogs is sport, the dogs enjoy it and it’s good to have a controlled dog. It’s also used as a selling point, a dog with tiles sells pups at a higher price.
My view is that a trainer / helper is the key to get the most out of a working dog breed – these can also be pups from a non or limited “working dog” line
Actually, that's not what I said. If you look back I said
"Pretty simple, a better chance you're going to get a pup with the genetics to work."
To imply that all working lines will "work" is wrong, just the same as implying show/non working lines will "work".

If someone is wanting to do sport/comp with their boxer why would not choose a breeder that breeds for those characteristics? Why not give yourself the best chance to reach that goal?

Now, if you're talking IPO/IPG sport... it's even more important to pick the right breeder.
A really good trainer and great helper/decoy will be a great asset but if the dog doesn't have the genetics to engage in the work.. its a bit of a waste of time.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I agree that looking for a breeder who considers the working side of breeding would be a good option for a pup to work with later. However, a dog has the necessary drive or it doesn’t, or on different levels, the trainer will need to understand the limits and boundaries.
If you are saying that a good breeder who will take all efforts to breed a line a with a strong drive (so good selection) , then I would agree that the line will probably be good at working.
A good trainer, who understands what he is doing, sensitive to the dogs personality and who knows when to encourage the dog will be able to get most boxers to work, simply because of the nature of the boxer, irrespective if the dog is from a working line or not.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:57 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benthe bandit View Post
I agree that looking for a breeder who considers the working side of breeding would be a good option for a pup to work with later. However, a dog has the necessary drive or it doesn’t, or on different levels, the trainer will need to understand the limits and boundaries.
If you are saying that a good breeder who will take all efforts to breed a line a with a strong drive (so good selection) , then I would agree that the line will probably be good at working.
A good trainer, who understands what he is doing, sensitive to the dogs personality and who knows when to encourage the dog will be able to get most boxers to work, simply because of the nature of the boxer, irrespective if the dog is from a working line or not.
Well I get what you are saying ... "all Boxers" are "working Line Dogs" agreed. But as it stands not all "Boxers can work??"

You have to pick your battles or more accurately, chose your lines??As It happened a very long time ago ... when the Boxers were "apparently" re-introduced to America after WWll. Those original dogs "were thought to be to fierce, to be let lose on an unsuspecting American Public???" So they "changed them!" And thus we have here ... the American Line Boxer, still a "Working Dog" true enough but not the same?? Smaller, lighter slimmer and uh ...kinda goofy.

And frankly how the "Goofy thing happened??" Is still something I don't understand but it is there?? "The clown prince of the dog world" as it were and the the AL Boxers fans are legion!

In America ... the gal was to produce a true "Boxer" that nearly anyone can deal with. And yeah they are still kinda crazy ... but they are "civil!" Typically that means ... no Human Aggression, being kinda nutty was just a by product ... I assume??

Now the GSD ... which BTE2 threw under the bus ... by contrast ... even the pet quality BYB puppies ... don't tend to much care for people??? It can be limited to strangers outside the home .. .if one is halfway competent or they will threaten "you" if your not that good! That crap happens ... all the time!

There prime objective ... is "still" to bite strangers ... regardless of heritage and they still seem to be uh ..."good at there job??" Research GSD and you won't find ... "Goofy" being one of there breed characteristic, believe that.

So that said ... back to Boxers. So I take your point all "Boxer" are still "Working Line Dogs" but ... not all Boxers can work??? It depends on the job, the American Line Boxers and it sounds like that is the line you are "biased towards??" Is no longer suited towards the K9, MWD,LE,PPD thing???

Now maybe they (AL Boxer) can still do that stuff but people whose lives depend on there on their job or who people who pursue the IPO Mondo Ring as a serious sport ... just won't bother with an Al Boxer??

Now it doesn't really matter, it is a different job for different lines of Boxers. And the fans of the American Line Boxers are legion! They are luv'd world wide for who and what they are!

But if you try to use in the world of IPO or Mondo Ring?? Yeah that is gonna be an uphill battle??? How and whatever they did ...way back when??Is your first obstacle to overcome??? A typical well trained, well adjusted Al Boxer ... is not that interested in biting/attacking people???

And as it happens, I did not believe, such was not the case?? It takes the right drives and the right temperament for a dog to be successful at the IPO/Mondo Ring/LE/PPD thing.

And it's not that hard to find to an answer?? As ...what you're asking ... I have already pursued ... years ago as it happened.

Now I will grant we don't know what line you have or what your goals are??
But you are talking to someone that has been there done that and they could chose whatever line they want ..."bte2." And they chose a Euro Boxer, pretty much ...nuff said, there.

Now if your goal is to prove a point and you have the time money and energy to pursue the IPO/Mondo Ring thing with an American Line Boxer ?? Well ... you'd have my support but I would have to add ... good luck with that!

I tried online to find such a Boxer ... many,many years ago! And I found ... exactly "ONE!" And after a 10 year career when I found him, that dog was retried?? I do remember seeing a post of the police station where he worked.
But I did not pursue it, cuz you know I found one AL Boxer doing the LE K9 thing thing so surely there must be more??

But ...no apparently ... I was wrong??? That American LE K9, Boxer, was apparently a case of that "guy and that dog?" Since the dog was retired I stopped my pursuit, I'd found one Al LE Boxer ... surely there must be more?? But apparently I was wrong???

And in years of searching thus far .. I have not found another American Boxer doing the LE K9 thing??? It's just no longer in there nature for the most part?? They are good at what they do however being good with kids and a safe friendly family pet .. that is good enough for 100's of thousands of us and good enough for me. If I want my next AL Boxer to have a job and I do ... I'll find something suited to what she does.

If you want to do the IPO/Mondo Ring thing with a Boxer?? It is most likely best to just get a Euro and call it a day?? You'll stil have to fing the "right " puppy but your odds of success will be better.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:28 AM   #26 (permalink)
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We - have a German boxer, also very goofy, I guess all boxers are the same and I would venture to say that boxers don’t typically bite people, that’s not their nature. We have never had any incidents, and Ben is not our first. Yes, the American Boxer is slimmer than what you call the “euro” boxer, the UK Boxer is not quite the same as the German boxer. The goal is not to attack or bite people, schutzhund is only for training ground – at home, the boxer is a different dog.
We work our dogs, but it’s not an obsession.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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There are some things to consider. Why does someone want a "working" dog? Do they plan to actually work the dog? Do they know what a "working" dog really is? Some people use it as a buzz word or to try and make a puppy sale. The truth is a true "working" dog has a high prey drive. They are go go go constantly and definitely think outside the box. So if you really really want that, then realize what you are asking for. And it takes a certain type of an owner/trainer to properly direct such a working/prey drive. Just like not every breed is for everyone. Not every ability is for everyone.

Boxers typically have a high prey drive. Obviously some dogs are more driven than others. But their pedigree does NOT make them the dog they are. And a "working" dog does not have a healthier genetic make up simply because of that designation. Every Boxer is different.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I've made my decision, am now on the waiting list for a brindle female puppy out of "Resistance."


https://europeanandsealedbrindleboxe...resistance.htm
)
LOL!!!!! Sealed Brindle? Please ask them to take their Boxer out of the bag and let them breathe

(seriously, there is no such thing as a sealed brindle.....just sayin')
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:01 AM   #29 (permalink)
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There are some things to consider. Why does someone want a "working" dog? Do they plan to actually work the dog? Do they know what a "working" dog really is? Some people use it as a buzz word or to try and make a puppy sale. The truth is a true "working" dog has a high prey drive. They are go go go constantly and definitely think outside the box. So if you really really want that, then realize what you are asking for. And it takes a certain type of an owner/trainer to properly direct such a working/prey drive. Just like not every breed is for everyone. Not every ability is for everyone.

Boxers typically have a high prey drive. Obviously some dogs are more driven than others. But their pedigree does NOT make them the dog they are. And a "working" dog does not have a healthier genetic make up simply because of that designation. Every Boxer is different.
Good question(s) – as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, more titles more money for the pups, and I also mentioned that a boxer generally has the genetics to perform well as a working dog – but a good trainer is required – and a patient owner. I cant quite follow the comments on “pedigree does not make them the dog the are”, could you please elaborate.
We have always worked our dogs – for the purpose of this discussion I suggest we define that as IPO / Schutzhund etc. Working can also mean agility – with working I do not mean an Australian shepherd - something completely different.
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:02 AM   #30 (permalink)
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LOL!!!!! Sealed Brindle? Please ask them to take their Boxer out of the bag and let them breathe

(seriously, there is no such thing as a sealed brindle.....just sayin')
Good point, the Boxer Club of Munich does not recognize a sealed brindle as standard – not quite sure what “sealed” means, I guess black? I believe the US does not recognize the Boxer Club Munich / FCI standards – so in essence breeders in the US can sell “sealed” – correct me if I am wrong
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