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Old 10-11-2018, 02:26 AM   #31 (permalink)
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This is bens dad – the videos are long, you don’t need to watch to the end.



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Old 10-11-2018, 12:40 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Looks like a good dog.
Do you live in Europe? or did you import you pup?
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:23 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I live in Germany, ben is now six months and is a real pain in the . at the moment
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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his best friend
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:23 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benthe bandit View Post
I live in Germany, ben is now six months and is a real pain in the . at the moment
And that's the reason you feel all boxers can work.
You have the benefit of having a larger number of boxer klubs and owners working in the sport.(IPO/IPG)
That is not the case here in the US.
Boxers are rarely seen in the IPO sport. And the boxers that are bred here tend to be for show only and don't have the temperament for IPO work.
There are a hand full of breeders that work their dogs in the sport and all of them use imported boxer to get the right temperament.
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:41 AM   #36 (permalink)
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OK, got ya – so it’s different in the US. So what do American Boxer owners think of German Boxers?
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:30 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I love the look of the stockier build, short muzzle. So I ever the look of the true german boxer. I however prefer the look of a properly docked tail.
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Thanks so much for all the great comments, everyone! I'll try to respond to everything for which I have anything to say.

I don't think joining the U.S. Boxer Club is a good idea for me because my impression is that is mostly or entirely for Schutzhund and other aggression/protection type work, in which I am not interested.

Obviously all working dogs have to want to work to be successful, but there are many different types of work. If I were interested in Schutzhund then buying from a breeder who works and competes successfully would be an absolute requirement to me. Since I'm not interested in Schutzhund or any other type of aggression/attack type work, but only things like rally, obedience and agility, it's not nearly as important a factor, and I think a dog just being from these types of bloodlines, full of ancestors who loved to work, has a much greater chance of being successful in rally, obedience and agility. One benefit that someone in this thread mentioned is that working breeders know what to look for in very young puppies and would be more likely to help me pick a dog who will be more successful in the types of work I want to do with her. However, I think it would be foolish to sacrifice so many other important factors, like even being able to see pedigrees or health test results, just to be able to buy from a working breeder.

I do not want to import a dog, because I wouldn't want a tiny scared puppy on a dangerous plane for all that time, wouldn't be able to meet the breeder, relatives and so much else, plus I have read from many sources that European breeders often "dump" their "lesser" dogs on U.S. buyers.

I know that there is not really a such thing as a sealed brindle, but my understanding is it's kind of a slang term for very dark brindle, maybe almost appearing black, which is a color I'd love to have, but will settle for any healthy brindle girl with a great temperament.

I sure hope my European line Boxer is still goofy like all my others have been!

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Originally Posted by PawPrintBoxers View Post
The truth is a true "working" dog has a high prey drive. They are go go go constantly and definitely think outside the box. So if you really really want that, then realize what you are asking for. And it takes a certain type of an owner/trainer to properly direct such a working/prey drive. Just like not every breed is for everyone. Not every ability is for everyone.
Excellent point! I worry with the growing popularity of European working line Boxers and other working breeds that too many of them are ending up with the wrong owners, not given nearly enough mental or physical exercise or worse, being abused by people who had no idea their working dog would never settle down.

Besides having owned four previous Boxers, I've spent time with many working dogs, a variety of breeds and sports, and am absolutely sure that I want and would be an excellent home for a super high drive working Boxer! Most dogs wouldn't even be physically capable of keeping up with me on my normal daily exercise; I need one that can do that and a lot more.

I have some updated news about the puppy I'm getting next year. Resistance may or may not be bred since she was bred this spring, she may get next year off. Regardless, she will definitely be bred to Danabol and never Aramis again because despite Resistance appearing to be classic/plain, the Aramis litter had white puppies which the breeder wants to avoid. But even if Resistance is not bred next year, I spoke to her breeder on the phone last night and she told me about two exciting 3-year-old females she has undergoing the health testing process and if everything goes well with that they will be bred next year. They are:

Allegiance (sire Aramis https://europeanandsealedbrindleboxe...achenstich.htm dam Fiona https://europeanandsealedbrindleboxe...-signum-laudis)

and

Divergence (sire Argento https://europeanandsealedbrindleboxe...imusdizara.htm dam Hevea) no link for Hevea yet but I'll get one and have seen pics of her

Allegiance's pic is attached, so gorgeous!

I think this, as long as their health tests are excellent, is a better idea. I'd rather get a puppy from younger parents (though Resistance is only 6) because I think that gives the puppies a better chance at living longer, healthier lives. Also, hopefully none of the parents will have C hips.
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:51 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bte2 View Post
And that's the reason you feel all boxers can work.
You have the benefit of having a larger number of boxer klubs and owners working in the sport.(IPO/IPG)
That is not the case here in the US.
Boxers are rarely seen in the IPO sport. And the boxers that are bred here tend to be for show only and don't have the temperament for IPO work.
There are a hand full of breeders that work their dogs in the sport and all of them use imported boxer to get the right temperament.


Actually there are quite a few Boxers who are getting IPO titles in the US. The Boxers involved in Schutzhund here are also members of the American Federation of Working Dogs. There are very strict guidelines for breeding, and showing. It's not showing you would see in an AKC event, but Schutzhund Obedience which would be called a BH. The stamina requirement title is called an AD (all German names). For the AD, a Boxer no younger than 14 months, will run along side a bicycle (on leash) for five miles to begin with. Then the dog rests for fifteen minutes, before running again. If the judge notices the dog is severely fatigued, the dog is disqualified. Even after a longer run the dog needs to be alert enough to pass a basic obedience task. Breeding comes in here so that a dog is not injured because it has poor confirmation, bad hips, or any type of genetic heart disease.


The American Federation of Working Dogs came about when the AKC outlawed any type of protection work, saying that it was aggressive by nature, and I guess scary to witness.


1990 AKC Schutzhund Ban


When you get further into obedience, tracking, and IPO work, there are tasks that easily disqualify a dog if it shows "any" sign of aggression to humans or other animals. The dog is disqualified, despite all the work and breeding that has gone into it. Many of the shows are judged by German judges that come over to the US.


We seem to mix up what IPO work is, and Schutzhund Clubs. There are many types of working Boxers do outside of that. I feel badly that there is still some type of belief that Boxers involved in Schutzhund sport are aggressive. You need to find a show to go to, you'll be amazed.


I don't know about buying a dog from Germany. I think those breeders involved in Schutzhund here spend lots of time looking at different breeding lines. I would be very concerned about buying a dog just because it has German lines. There are rules about breeding in Germany, but that doesn't mean people are following them. At least you can find some very reputable breeders in the US who have bred into some Europeon lines. You might get the names by looking at members of sporting clubs like agility clubs, etc.


The most important thing we can do as buyers is make the commitment to see our Boxer through good, and bad, for the entire dog's lifespan. You need to be in for life with this dog unless there are conditions that would make it very dangerous.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I think we need some clarification on “Schutzhund” and “aggression” training. Schutzhund is not aggression training – if you would approach anyone in the BK in Germany and ask for aggression training, then the response would be – “not here, please leave”
Schutzhund is not part of the BH examination, it is however a small part of the ZTP
I have been told that US Boxers don’t have the same drive as German Boxers, this does not mean that all German Boxers, need and want to work (IPO etc.) They are energetic dogs that need exercising, agility is fine and nice long walks, if you want some mental exercise then try trailing. They are great family dogs like yours in the US.
They are goofy, they are called “clowns” over here, probably not much different to your US Boxers. It’s a myth that there might be a risk issue with pups from an older female – it’s not true.
Hundreds of boxers are sold each year in Germany, hundreds never see a training ground or are worked.
A breeder has no clue if a “young puppy” is going to be a good working dog – the pups are handed over between 8-12 weeks. The breeder will be able to tell if the pup will be a nice looking dog when its and adult.
I have never heard of “European Breeders” dumping pup on to Americans, this would imply that German breeders think Americans to be ignorant – there are many ignorant dog owners, many of which can also be found in Germany.
All male German Boxers used for breeding will have some form of working title, this will not make all pups future working dogs – working a boxer is a choice, not a must, and those boxers not “worked” are all perfect – but they need the exercise. The wrong owner for a boxer is a person who does not understand this, does not have the time or is too lazy – a boxer dog will suffer.
As to health testing – this should be done within 12-24 months, not after three years.
Anyone in Germany can breed Boxers, but if the breeder is a member of the BK then there are very strict guidelines.
Its hard for me to understand why the question “trying to find a reputable breeder” pops up as a thread – what’s the problem in the US? Is it the size of the country and the travel that makes it difficult to find one nearby, or is there a real problem?
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