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Old 10-18-2018, 10:11 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Here is a Boxer in the US who is working as in the Police Department. Lots of slobber on those windows. The Boxer Club here has ZTP trials, flying in judges from Europe. They sell puppies with spay/neuter contracts if not going to working homes.


https://www.news8000.com/news/region...rial/169723581


I know the dogs we have were started on tugs very early on, and exposed to loud noises and even gun shots. We were within a couple hour's drive from the Schutzhund Working Club. We had taken our oldest to a Schutzhund Club (German Shepherds) that had never seen a Boxer before. They were not very friendly because I don't think Boxers were thought of as fit to do the working part. Things are slowly changing.


We no longer are involved in the trainings, but it was fun. We were close to getting a BH on ours. I think some Boxer breeders in the US are bringing in German lines to breed with their AKC lines. Some are charging higher for puppies because of this.
You could end up with a puppy who still had heart, hip and spine problems. I believe they do require strict health testing for dogs in Germany. Boxers have the highest incidence of lymphoma, and also struggle with Mast Cell cancer. I think those may still be an issue with all Boxers.


A buyer would have to be really careful about reading their contract, visiting their facility, and talking to others who have bought from those kennels.


We had an AKC Boxer previously, and he was a wonderful member of the family.
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:21 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by owenowlsnest View Post
Here is a Boxer in the US who is working as in the Police Department. Lots of slobber on those windows. The Boxer Club here has ZTP trials, flying in judges from Europe. They sell puppies with spay/neuter contracts if not going to working homes.


https://www.news8000.com/news/region...rial/169723581


I know the dogs we have were started on tugs very early on, and exposed to loud noises and even gun shots. We were within a couple hour's drive from the Schutzhund Working Club. We had taken our oldest to a Schutzhund Club (German Shepherds) that had never seen a Boxer before. They were not very friendly because I don't think Boxers were thought of as fit to do the working part. Things are slowly changing.


We no longer are involved in the trainings, but it was fun. We were close to getting a BH on ours. I think some Boxer breeders in the US are bringing in German lines to breed with their AKC lines. Some are charging higher for puppies because of this.
You could end up with a puppy who still had heart, hip and spine problems. I believe they do require strict health testing for dogs in Germany. Boxers have the highest incidence of lymphoma, and also struggle with Mast Cell cancer. I think those may still be an issue with all Boxers.


A buyer would have to be really careful about reading their contract, visiting their facility, and talking to others who have bought from those kennels.


We had an AKC Boxer previously, and he was a wonderful member of the family.
Euro/American's ... these day's are not uncommon?? Near as I can tell that is what KACO to name one produces, mostly ...also??

But the topic is kinda far ranging and in the begging we did not that the OP was from uh Germany?? And thus has "apparently a "Germany Boxer??? " LOL ... the "real deal as it were!" So no wonder he was "confused about what the heck we were talking about with the American Boxer thing???

LOL ... yeah both are "working Dogs" but not the same dog at all!! Different Boxers "bred for different, owners! The question was asked "what do American things "if" they see a Euro Boxer?? LOL what that is "easy" we tend that wow ... wth?? That Boxer ...is freaking hugh!! Most average American Boxer owners ... have no idea what a Euro Boxer is ...much less the differences, between a German Boxer and a British Boxer.

The American Line Boxers are well pretty much "prefect" for Americans! No doubt "perfect" family pet for the reasonably competent average America! They got it right for "here" after WWII, when the German Boxers were brought here after WWll.

Our Boxers are "not" the same as there's! Not ... the same temperament or drives?? They don'd do IPO/MWD/PPD/LE/BDD or Mondo Ring?? With rare exception, that stuff is just not the American Line Boxers thing???

In freaking a decade ... I have found only "one" American Line Boxer ... that did the LE thing?? That was a decade ago, and when I did that dog was retired! So you know a decade and I have never another "American Line Boxer" doing the LE thing?? It's just "apparently" not what they do???

But the "Euro's" that is another story ... they are regional ...hmm as you know. Ton's of them doing the K9 thing in the Mid West? Not really sure why that is the case but whatever it is what it is.

The Op confused a couple of us??? We had no idea he was in Germany and his dog ... is pretty much what "our Boxers" were.

He asked ... what do we think when we see a "Euro??" Well that is easy we think they are uh freaking hugh??? I don't know why exactly but "most" American ...have no idea what a "Euro Boxer" is?? On the "West Coast" one does not tend to see a lot of Euros???

It turns out ... I actually know and worked with one but it took three years ...he was now full grown before I realized ...uh something is up with this bigger, cause he was freaking hugh???

And he is a very nice dog ... I don't really see any issues with him?? But nonetheless and now realizing that I'm not going to do the IPO, Mondo Ring thing.

And now ... I can deal with "whatever" flavor of Boxer I chose to get! Lessons learned the hard way! AKA Over Sized Working GSD with uh (not unusual ... people issues."

But ... and while still looking for my next "Struddell" I have finally come to realize ... that I like the American Boxers for who and what they are! With the girls ... you get "pig headed" but with the lot of the Al Boxers you get a people friendly, good with kids and what's a stranger dog??If one is halfway competent an AL Boxer ... tends to be a piece of cake!

What you won't tend to find ... is a "typical" American Boxer with uh ... people issues?? It does happen but it's fairly rare with GSD dogs with uh ... people issues roll in daily!!! On here that happens, once or twice a year???

I've had lot's of time to ponder the lines thing?? And now I finally realize ... that I want another Boxer pretty much just like my all American Girl!! I don't really want a Wl GSD in a Boxer suit ... as it were. Now that maybe a bit harsh ...but the Euro's are "still" the real "Working Dogs" of the "Boxer World!' And the American Line Boxers ... not so much???

If it did not ... there would be more than uh one American Line Boxer doing the LE thing in uh more than 10 years?? It is "apparently" ... just not what they do??? And you know ... that 's not really a bad thing?? We'll settle in at number 8 or 9 most popular dog in American and let the GSD's, sigh continue to be number two or three, for uh years!!

The military has given up on the WL GSD's can you say Malinois.

And when most ... average, incompetent owners owners of GS's find out they have ... "more dog then they can handle??" Off to the shelter you go, hopefully without a bite history??

I've had a long time to ponder since the passing off my girl?/ And I have learned lot's of dog stuff! And these days ... I can deal with ever in a dog?? But what I don't want to deal with the constant "worry of a Breed with people issue?? Rocky never did anything untoward as regards "strangers" but the "concern was" always there!

Most likely .,.most here won't have any idea what that is like?? And I am most painting the Euro Boxers with a broad ... "I don't know you ... please go away brush, thank you." But that is my experience with LE "capable dogs??"

And yeah LOL .. I would like a Malinois/GSD cross as a second dog! All kinds of crazy there! But for a Boxer ... I don't want that kinda crap! So yeah flaws in drive and kinda small my next Boxer will be an American Girl! I luv'd my OS Wl GSD ... Rocky was a dog that had my back!! So I get the GSD thing but when the day I had to say goodbye to my Struddell ... was the day the sunshine died.

I just can't take a chance on a "Euro" myself, so I find one say they got it get right for America with our Boxer's. If one is serious about the Mondo Ring/IPO thing and want a Boxer ... get a Euro and call it a day ...nuff said??
Uh ..not that have an opinion one way or the other.
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:36 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Regardless, she will definitely be bred to Danabol and never Aramis again because despite Resistance appearing to be classic/plain, the Aramis litter had white puppies which the breeder wants to avoid. But even if Resistance is not bred next year, I spoke to her breeder on the phone last night and she told me about two exciting 3-year-old females she has undergoing the health testing process and if everything goes well with that they will be bred next year. They are:
Flashy to Flashy will produce "Whites!" The white gene is in Boxers and that is where the "Flashy's come from." Somewhere between 25 and 30 percent of all Boxers are born "White!" If your not seeing them where you are, then ask yourself well, what happens to that 25 percent to 39 percent of "white "Boxer puppies??? If breeders stop breeding flashy to flashy ... problem solved! Not that I have an "opinion" on the matter.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:09 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Actually there are quite a few Boxers who are getting IPO titles in the US. The Boxers involved in Schutzhund here are also members of the American Federation of Working Dogs.
I would disagree but I guess it would depend on a persons definition of "quite a few"
Recently a lady put together a list of IPO titled boxers in the US.. I think it was around 100, maybe another 100 with BH.
So roughly a total of 200 boxer total, that's not many for a total. I would guess there may be 200 GSD's a year titled.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:32 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Flashy to Flashy will produce "Whites!" The white gene is in Boxers and that is where the "Flashy's come from."
I know that, but the thing is, this female from all appearances is classic/plain. The breeder thinks so and she appears that way to me. Her pic is here:

HavenWoods Resistance

Breeder says she has not a speck of white on the back of her neck. She was bred to a flashy male, but flashy x plain should never produce whites. I almost started a thread asking about how this could be possible. There were I think three white/mostly white puppies in the litter. Even though the sire is quite flashy, it's a mystery to me as far as what I know about Boxer genetics.


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The stamina requirement title is called an AD (all German names). For the AD, a Boxer no younger than 14 months, will run along side a bicycle (on leash) for five miles to begin with. Then the dog rests for fifteen minutes, before running again. If the judge notices the dog is severely fatigued, the dog is disqualified. Even after a longer run the dog needs to be alert enough to pass a basic obedience task. Breeding comes in here so that a dog is not injured because it has poor confirmation, bad hips, or any type of genetic heart disease.
I love this title! My 10YO U.S. Boxer has an AD and I so wish more people, especially breeders, would do this with their dogs. It gives solid evidence that their heart and body are strong and they will be able to lead an active lifestyle. I know it's somewhat hard to get though, because it's not often offered since there is unfortunately such low demand and lots of times/places they want to do it are too hot. I canceled twice before finally finding suitable conditions (early morning, cool enough) for my boy to get that title, wasn't going to make him do it in high heat even though he could have still passed. I brought a cooler chest full of ice water and a towel to douse him with during the breaks. He's an amazing U.S. Boxer.


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When you get further into obedience, tracking, and IPO work, there are tasks that easily disqualify a dog if it shows "any" sign of aggression to humans or other animals. The dog is disqualified, despite all the work and breeding that has gone into it. Many of the shows are judged by German judges that come over to the US.


We seem to mix up what IPO work is, and Schutzhund Clubs. There are many types of working Boxers do outside of that. I feel badly that there is still some type of belief that Boxers involved in Schutzhund sport are aggressive. You need to find a show to go to, you'll be amazed.

I wish that were the case everywhere, but have attended training sessions at numerous schutzhund clubs and invariably dogs were kept separated, each one crated/kenneled while the others took their turns working, and when new dogs came onto the field they were always kept away from other dogs. I've been told by numerous working dog breeders that they purposefully do not socialize their dogs because they don't want them getting too "doggy" as in, friendly with other dogs, because that detracts from their working desire. I have also witnessed many incidents of dog on dog aggression at schutzhund clubs/training practices. Maybe everything like this I saw was completely out of line and not the norm, but everyone at these clubs acted like it was normal (though almost all the dogs I saw there were GSDs) but I absolutely cannot have extreme dog aggression in my household. I like to keep two Boxers at a time and need them to be great friends and no risk to each other. One of the many things I love about Boxers is that they tend to get along so well with each other. Even if there were a guarantee of some certain schutzhund club of which I could become a member and my dogs would never become aggressive towards each other, I really just have no interest in that particular sport, nothing against it, no problem with people into it, love seeing Boxers succeed there and anywhere else, just prefer not to be involved in that myself for a variety of reasons.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:45 PM   #46 (permalink)
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It’s a myth that there might be a risk issue with pups from an older female – it’s not true.

Please cite sources. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary, in humans and many other species, maybe all on which I've ever seen studies done.





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A breeder has no clue if a “young puppy” is going to be a good working dog

So why do working breeders start puppies out with rags, ropes, tugs, leather, etc. at such a young age, spend so much time evaluating them for working ability and decide which to keep, which to recommend as working prospects and which to sell as pets?



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I have never heard of “European Breeders” dumping pup on to Americans

If you read very much about European Boxers in the U.S., especially regarding importing them, you will. I haven't been looking for it at all yet have seen people writing about it on various websites probably at least 50 times in the last few years; it's hard to avoid. I've read over and over about how if you don't know the right people there and have good connections you will not likely be able to import a really good dog because they don't want to let them go, which is understandable.





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As to health testing – this should be done within 12-24 months, not after three years.
I don't know what the regulations are in Germany but to have hips OFA certified in the U.S. the dog must be at least 24 months old. I don't think the two females the breeder from whom I am planning to purchase are three years old yet, but will be at some point next year and are currently in the process of health testing, have had some done and still need some more. I don't see this as a problem at all, would much rather a breeder take their time and do everything right than rush dogs into breeding at the minimum possible age. It's likely she's been showing them.
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:48 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I’m not a big fan of long posts so I’ll do my best to keep short. I don’t know much, nothing really about US Boxers, what I think I have picked up on this forum is that it might be difficult to find good breeders and healthy boxers in the US?
We have the BK here in Germany, but also many “hobby” breeders. I guess most of you are up to speed on what BK breeders provide and need to do. Boxer pups from hobby breeders cost about 50% less than BK pups, so around 800 Euros and mostly without any paperwork.
Forum members use the term “euro boxers” quite often – I’m talking about German Boxers. My best guess is that about 80% of boxer pup buyers, also from BK breeders do not work their dogs, about 40% of these will however at least do obedience training. This does not mean the owners will have frustrated and uncontrollable German boxers because they are not worked. We all know that boxers are very energetic and eager to learn, if they are kept busy and exercised they will be fine, even the so called “euro boxers” Boxers are not a breed for lazy humans.
As to pups from “older” females – if you mean complications at birth, I might agree. I would not agree if you mean a “quality” issue with the pups. And how “old” is “old”?
Breeders sell their pups between 8-12 weeks. During this time they will not have their pups tugging rags or ropes purposely to select pups that might show potential . This must be a US specific issue. Pups will play with each other, their might be some tugging on rags etc. There is also no pre selection of “pets” vs. working prospects between 8-12 weeks, this is a selling gimmick. You will find BK breeders promoting litters from Champions of this and that, not too often, but it’s seen. BK breeders will take efforts to select who they will give their pups to (interviews etc.) This is understandable. Breeders here will sell the boxer pups as family pets, may however will also encourage to work the dog. I still do not believe that a breeder can determine if an 8 week old pup will be a good working dog.
Back to the US buyers – most of the time litters over here are already reserved before they are born. If not then the breeder is happy to have the last pup go latest say by the 12th week. The “selection process” might then not be as stringent as usual, this might lead you to believe that the US buyers get the worst of the litter, Germans also get these pups. The issue here is that breeders might have concerns with US buyers because they (might) will crop and dock, they don’t want that. Many breeders will also not sell to German buyers – its not a nationality thing. Yes, you are right, it is helpful to have connections. Over the last 12 years we have stayed in touch with the breeders of our boxer pups, they can always be used as a reference. A good breeder will also want to stay in touch with the pup owner.
As to testing – also my best guess is that many Germans who buy pups will not have their pups tested, many don’t know what that is and why it should be done. Many buyers want all the test results of the parents but won’t test their own pups, because it becomes very expensive. Those who work their dogs will do it because they need to understand to what extent the dog can be exercised. Its odd how many people go through the research for tested parents but don’t follow through with their own dogs. This is why I test my dogs within 24 months – it has nothing to do with regulations, it’s a necessity.
Many people don’t understand that pups have soft bones, yet they let them walk up and down stairs all day, let them jump and walk them too long – bad thing to do. This could lead to serious problems later
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:47 AM   #48 (permalink)
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benthebandit...You pretty much nailed it. It is at times difficult to find a "good" breeder in the US. Many of the boxer here have heart problems and cancer and die within 10 years. Anyone here can breed their dog, and they do just to make $$. The is where health issues develop as they have no clue to genetics. A good breeder in the US will have the breeding dogs tested... example genetically health test for hip dysplasia, cardiomyopathy (heart disease), sub-aortic stenosis (heart disease), thyroid disease and degenerative myelopathy.
Hip dysplasia is tested for in young pups as you mentioned but they are not certified until they reach 24 months. Because the US is big and people just breed their own dogs because they think they are the best doesn't always make it true and thats why we have to be more careful here where we buy.And we call those people backyard breeders you will see many boxers here with much longer muzzle than should be and they usually come from backyard breeders. And your right most people do not health test their pup other than normal yearly check ups, its mostly only done for breeding stock.
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:57 AM   #49 (permalink)
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It is at times difficult to find a "good" breeder in the US.
Stay strong, dont give up the searching
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:49 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Stay strong, don't give up the searching
Lindar is not searching but I am ... still!

And I have come to finally understand ... that I like American Line Boxers, for "who they are!" They are "clearly" not the same as there "Euro" counter parts??
They don't sigh ... "Mondo Ring/IPO/PPD/LE/PPD." Most likely there is more that they don't do?? But "finally" after five years of absence ... I finally realize that what the AL,Boxers do ... do they do very well! A safe kid/people family pet!

That is what they were bred to be and that job ... they do well! Straight up no doubt no doubt, if one is at least half way component?? A typical Al Boxer ... will have no idea what "Aloof to Stranger's meant??" My Struddell ... a clearly BYB Boxer ... I know was like that! A "stranger" was just a friend she never met?? Most likely that is not a good springboard for the IPO thing???

But does that mean she could not have done that?? I don't know?? The "right drive" bit?? So I don't know but what I do know ... is that if "Daddy" say's this is what we do. She'd have said aye, aye, sir ... if it makes you happy ... I got this! But that is not how "pro's" pick dogs, so yeah.

And yep granted ... in America Boxers, lots of health issues?? Granted if one looks one, can find Al, Breeders here that health test. And the "BYB" puppies that are "apparently" a thing now in "America" with there slightly longer narrower muzzles?? Yeah that is a "thing" and by and large they are not "health tested" and yes ..."DM" tends to be one of there (big) issues??

But that aside ... what get's overlooked is the "AL" Boxers ability to tolerate "heat??" That is pretty much an "over looked" unknown factor, if it's a short muzzled dog ...stay out of "high heat" conditions and ... you know problem solved!

But way back in the day ... I did not know this??? And back in the day, Struddell and I would go out on "Bunny Rabbit Chasing" hunts in the high heat of the NV desert ... all day long! That would be 30 mph "sprints" for hours at a time! I had to decide when, it was time to call it quits because she would not stop!

The only other Boxer that I am aware of was even more "hard core" a "hog catching Boxer" in Louisiana! Now that was uh ... hard core! He was a member here "briefly" and he posted clips ...yeah that did not go over well!

Nonetheless, his "Boxer" did that and his AL Boxer ... did not seem to care about "heat??" With you know his longer narrower muzzle!

So that is "two" Al Boxers, that defied conventional wisdom??? A member had one and I had the other! And a Law Enforcement, AL Boxer, there was uh "one" ... that I know of??? Many years ago, I have "never" found another such Al Boxer?? It just does not seem to happen???

But (people safe/people friendly) American Line, Boxers ... that is just what they do, apparently?? People safe and family friendly and making their owners laugh and smile ... is what American Line Boxers do best!

Goofy by nature is what they were bred to be ... and the do that quite well! Health issues ... tend to be an unfortunate by product of doing the latter?? I don't know how exactly that happened??

The Euro's are not very common in America ... apparently?? but fully grown they are easy to spot as they are freaking hugh!! I know of only one!

ANd he is a nice dog! I got to work with him ...he had a "pulling issue" and a "Deer Chasing issuing!" I had neither issue with him and there were uh Deer to be found on our walk???!! Lot's of them! But no problem, for me.

Aw well I am not bashing the "Euro's" I'm proud they are out there! And if one wants one "here" they can find them! But as for me ... I think "now" I realize that my "Struddell" pretty much set my expectations for a "Boxer??"

So "White/Female and All American" it will be! The "proper temperament" I 'feel" will be a given?? Lot's of them on here and as described ... they all seem to be about the same as my girl. Goofy and proud of it, that's not really in the AKC Breed characteristic but they are what they are. However it happened ... I like it!
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