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Old 10-29-2009, 11:02 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

Eurobox, I am sorry you feel that way, I am far more new to the forum than many others but through all of my perusals on here and discussions with many members, I have to say that Hannah and Jennifer completely sum up how I feel about this as well as the majority of the members on here. It is a bad situation for this person to be in, but it seems to me that everyone here has had a normal reaction judging from their posts.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:07 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

Quote:
Originally Posted by HannaBanana
Quote:
Did your dog come from FULLY health tested parents?"
85% of all boxer forum nope, not at all. BYB, Mills and Pet Stores as well as rescue and shelters. However of all the people who I have met on forums and via the internet for the love of the boxers, have learned their lessons, know what to look for, and what questions to ask potential breeders. Its called learning.

If Sami told us her ethics, what she does, how she does it, then the people who called BYB will learn that its not fair to judge someone without knowing them. Website are horrible as some are not complete and accurate. Thats all. .

I fell victim to it before. I posted about a kennel that bred a white dog and produce a flashy fawn that was being show. I questioned if you could show it because it had a white parent as well as the ethics of the person who bred the dog. Little did I know they joined the forum and I got . However it lead to an educational conversation, where i think they learned about the ethics of breeding whites, I learned NEVER mention a kennel name or website in a public forum if its questionable, and not to judge until you have heard the entire story.

Live and learn!!!
Good for you! I have noticed that you seem more level headed than some. The quote you answered on here was not directed at you, but I think you know that. And the part you said about people learning their lessons about BYB, I still see people buying pups from 'this person' or 'that person' (BYB). I am not saying that BYB are not bad, just don't be so mean!!! That poor woman is never going to come back on here, and never have a good feeling about this site.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:17 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

Welcome Sami.

I did not stalk you. It was a joke. I was just doing research on Holland boxers.

Did you do any research on Serena Young or Sadoren Boxers before you decided to trade pups?
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:31 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

I don't see why Sami should not return
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:26 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

What I consider to be a back yard breeder is somewhat different than a puppy mill. BYB's love their pets, they are members of the family, they take excellent care of them...but...they seem to only consentrate on the 'pure blood line part' or the 'registered/papered part' or the fact that generations back there was a conformation champion of some sort in the lineage. There's more to breeding than that. Sami..I didn't look at your website..so I'm just gonna ask you these questions..which I feel is fair..you being a breeder in all...
1. How old are your boxers when you begin to breed them?
2. How many times do you breed your bitches?
3. What is it that you want to accomplish from breeding the pair you bred? What traits were you looking for?
4. What health tests were done? Holter...how many hours of tape was read? Thyroid...did you get your results from a vet or from OFA (vets always say thyroid is good until the dog has full blown out thyroid problems)...Hips...once again, did the vet read your hip xrays...or were they sent in. My vet read one of my hip xrays wrong...said the dog had perfect hips..no problems...OFA stated differently...the dog has mild hip dysplasia..And do you provide documentation of these results? If there's no health testing done...how long have you been breeding this particular line...how have the other dogs done health wise? Any hip problems..early deaths from heart problems...????
5. Was your dog evaluated in conformation shows?? or by a judge?? If not, what about the parents?
6. Explain the parents temperament...
7. Where do you keep the puppies?? What have you done to desensatize them to there surroundings and people?
These are questions to 'me' that define whether or not you're dealing with a BYB. I don't want no health guarantee....for heaven's sake...if there was a problem..I'd never give the dog back once it was a member of my family..I'd deal with it.

I applaud you for what you did for all of these dogs, taking them in..getting them vet care, sterilizing them, finding them good homes...Really I do...But there's so much more to breeding...I'm not judging you in any way, shape or form...these are just the questions I'd ask any breeder to determine what I'm dealing with. *Please note...I'm not perfect...I got all my dogs close by...from family breeders..who do none of these things...I paid $500 for each of my dogs...but I consider them BYB'rs.

And Welcome to the site!
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:48 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

EURO WTF!!! Dude I've been scammed before with ads like this because I just about fell for the whole "adopt me because my parents can no longer take care of me" BS. So sue me for being a little more critical.

Plus, dude, you used my quote but never directed it to me.

"I would be happy if they deleted it..." - You should delete your OP.

If you have an issue with me then bring it to me in privte.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:08 PM   #47 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

Hello again !

First off .. this is not a joke !! You don't call someone from an add, ask question then use the information to slander them and dig up stuff for gossip & then say "Hey I was joking" come on have some class. If you want to research Holland Boxers then call me or come by, I will be happy to show you around. I have nothing to hide & I can provide quite a few references.
I do not have to explain myself to anyone but I will answer some question to help some of you.

I really appriciate that everyone is being a little nicer. I have never joined a forum before because all I ever heard from people was that there is nothing but judment & gossip about people on a forum. When I joined this one because I had heard thru the grapevine that I was being slammed, I seen all of these remarks from people that had no idea who I am or what I do.
I have 5 beautiful acres, a 5 y/o Scottish Highland cow, 2 horses ( a AQHA mare she's 18 & a 12 y/o Pinto mare), an 8 y/o Blue Heeler, 6 y/o Pug, a 3 y/o blind Pug (by the way this one was came with the house & was a breeding stud in with 5 females, blind from PRA !) he is now neutered & I had his Stenotic Nares and Soft palate fixed too so he could breath easier! He will live out his life here since it is the only place he knows. Our oldest Boxer is 9 & I have been breeding Boxers for just 5-6 years. Before that the Rottweiler was my breed .... for 12 years but I began to get tired of the "type" of people looking to get a Rott. I have always had a mix of critters in my house. I grew up on a farm & with all kinds of animals. My family bred rough coat Collies as far back as I can remember.
I came here from AZ in 1990 with my new husband (we had just married & he was getting out of the army), his family, formerly Gereans Boxers, had gorgeous Boxers & I learned a lot from them but I wasn't impressed with the small boned. long nosed Boxer that I was seeing (they were big show breeders too) and really didn't think much about getting into the breed until years later (& a divorce) I met Kim & her Euro Boxers from Belgium ... this is where I got really interested in the breed & started my research. This was a real Boxer in my opinon & I was hooked.

I have shown my Boxers in IABCA, as some already know the Euro's do not do well in AKC for the most part.
My dogs are health tested & I show proof to people that purchase my pups. I do not post on the website, it is a waste of space & those interested when they come to my home will be shown full proof. My Boxers are also tested for ARVC through blood DNA at WSU by Dr. Muers and/or her staff. Most breeders are not doing this. I want to be sure that I have no "homozygous" carriers & so far the test have revealed that I do not !
I use South Bay for most testing as far as Thyroid or lab testing I do not believe one must send everything to OFA !! I am able to keep my own records and I do not care about studding to the public ! I am a private persone for the most part & have only studded my males to bitches that I have bred or of similar bloodlines. The lines have proven healthy and long lived and just a small amount of research will prove that. I started off with a 1/4 Euro 3/4 American female from some of the old Boxella lines & paid $1800.00 (yes, $1800.00!) stud fee's to breed to top quality Euro lines & kept pups from my own breedings to start my own. I have bred to only top Euro lines of proven health & longevity. One of the studs you will see in just about everything I have is Angelo van de Boksdoorn (he was the $1800.00 stud fee) also bred to an 8 y/o import from the Wordanis kennel in the Netherlands, he had never been bred before. the owner had been aproached many times to use his Boxer for stud but had yet to see a bitch worthy, after temperament testing my Carmen, reasearching her lines, speaking to Erik Fick at the Wordanis kennel for his approval & checking her health testing she was bred to his male ... twice for 2 beautiful litters! Fausto, Fleur & Fallon are from the 1st breeding. These are old Wordanis bloodlines ... this male is a son of Urban Wordanis & he is still doing just fine today at 10. The male has never had one health issue, never had a surgery other then his ear crop & is working/Schutz. trained as well as a loyal family member.

My pups are raised in my home not in kennels, we have a huge fenced yard which they have the run of unless weather is bad in which case I have a 2 car garage that was converted into a huge room, the garage door is no longer there & it was framed in & windows installed, the room has pergo floors through out, it is plummed with heat ducts & is heated by our heat pump just as the rest of the house. There is a TV & a radio for THEM in there along with huge dog beds (water proof of course. They have doggie door access to a smaller yard with pea gravel to potty, this area is covered so they don't get wet.
I have never had a puppy returned for health or temperament issues & give a 3 year health guarantee & my contract states that the puppy/dog be returned if it cannot be kept for any reason at any age. They are also microchipped with ME as a 2nd contact. BYB do not do this ! I do it for the health & safety of pups/dogs produced by me.
Thank s again to all that are so open minded on this forum & shame on those that try to dig up dirt on people & use as gossip. Maybe your time would be more useful voluteering at a shelter or rescue ?
I will come back here to this forum ... I see that there are good people out there.

Sami
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:32 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

Wow lot's of info and stuff I don't know what you are talking about, but that's because I am no breeder
I just wanted to say

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Old 10-29-2009, 05:46 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

Quote:
Originally Posted by sami
Hello again !

First off .. this is not a joke !! You don't call someone from an add, ask question then use the information to slander them and dig up stuff for gossip & then say "Hey I was joking" come on have some class. If you want to research Holland Boxers then call me or come by, I will be happy to show you around. I have nothing to hide & I can provide quite a few references.
I hope you are not referring to me. Because I did not call. All I did was google/research holland boxers. And not once did I say anything bad.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:13 PM   #50 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: 100% Euro pups for $400????

I'm going to point out a few things on both sides, and inevitably piss some people off.

To the breeder being "slammed"
Please understand that this forum is full of people very passionate about this breed, and its well-being. We are people who have for the most part, done our research, and would ask a million questions about any breeder before we'd buy, or even consider. I am by no means justifying the immediate judgement passed by many readers, just trying to put it in perspective. Also understand your situation is NOT ideal, and it would have been entirely unrealistic that with no information provided anyone would assume that you purchased a house with 33 dogs to explain the situation. I would hope that you know any breeder that sells that many breeds is a red flag for an educated person. They went with the information that was provided. Unfortunately that information was not adequate enough to asses this information.

To everyone else:
Lets keep in mind that websites alone are absolutely AWFUL to go off of alone. I saw a million and a half things that raised my eyebrow and made me wonder about Annie's breeder, and CALLED her to get the scoop. (red flag: breeds her own males to her own females. The scoop: many of her dogs are PURCHASED as adults because they are the perfect match for an opposite sex already there. Also, her lines come from all over the country.) Had I not have called her, I would have assumed she wasn't doing things right, and missed out on the best little girl I can dream of. I have seen this very same breeder slammed on here, and disregarded based off of the website alone. (whatever, I'm glad. Annie was the avaliable female at the time and if they took her, I would not have gotten her.)
I love this forum, and have had absolutely zero problems with anyone whatsoever. Everyone has been very welcoming to me, and I hope I'm not ruining that. I see no reason for this breeder to have to come on here and post every single thing she does or doesn't do. She defended the statements made against her and left it at that. As a member of this forum, she should not "need" to go any more into it than that. She owes us nothing.

I hope to see more ethical breeders join this forum, I believe they are a wealth of knowledge we can all benefit from, especially myself considering being a part of that world sometime in the future.
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