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Old 06-16-2019, 10:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Valley Bulldog

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are one these. I only discovered their existance a few days ago as theres one that always barks at us on our normal walking path. Seems to be from an English Bulldog and a Boxer. Though they are 15 generations or so along now. I'm not gonna be some purist snob and discount them as a designer breed as in reality many breeds were created in such a way including our beloved Boxers.

The thing is both breeds they are made from suffer from many health problems. And weirder (to me at least) is that the Boxer has a 10-12 year lifespan and the English Bulldog has a 8-10 year lifespan and yet the Valley Bulldog has a 9-14 year lifespan. Now this is just some light googling and I'm far from having any real understanding of genetics but that just seems weird. The 8-10 between a boxer and a bulldog making an average of 9 I can buy into but how are they obtaining an average top of 14 years with two breeds known for shorter lifespans.

Anyways is anyone interested in discusing them? I tried to do a search but was having issues on my phone and only found a couple threads with some slight references to them. So I appologize if this has been discussed in detail before.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Well that is a new one from but google and I just did a little checking. At first I thought oh know another designer dog, but its not. Most designer dogs come from non ethical breeders or lower quality dogs as many breeders do not want their line mixed with another breed.They worked to hard & long to meet standards so a lot of times dogs that do not conform to standard are used for breeding mixed breeds. Anyway it seems the Valley bulldog has been around for a long time and is a purebred, just not recognized by certain breed clubs. From what I have read so far and the pictures of most I like them. A really blocky heavy duty dog whose appearance could scare people but have the characteristic nature of a goofy boxer.. Is says health has been improved from the breathing issues of the english bulldog but I still think looking at the photos it would have a difficult time, evenly boxer does especially in 90 degree weather. They eem to be more broad chested then your typical boxer which also would make me worry about bloat, though it doesn't mention it. I saw they said they are prone to skin issues, allergies, and breathing issues...You must clean the folds everyday to avoid yeast irritation but we have that in the boxer too. It says in several articles that they must be trained using positive reenforcement methods and must be socialized early on (Z?) no clue...since I don't know anyone who has one I really am not sure of their personalities and quirks. I do like the look of them. I don't know where you would find a ethical breeder and could end up with someone taking a boxer/english bulldog breeding them and thinking 1st /2nd generation is the same as someone who actually has a history where the pups are truly considered purebred. That in itself would probably not lead me to purchasing one. I also love rottweilers, I have had several all were stable healthy dogs and lived till about 10. Because they are considered a dangerous breed by insurance companies, some home owner insurance companies will not insure you or will drop you. Its actually the reason I went to get a boxer instead of another rottie. Again you must buy from a reputable breeder to ensure a good temperament.
I also like the Dogues de Bordeaux and h honestly would have loved to own one. The down side is their life expectancy is like 6 years so again health issues. By the time I pay for the dog, invest my time & more money into it for training and healthcare I'd like it to be around a lot longer. Well those are just my initial thoughts.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Never heard of them till you posted. Have to say I'm not very impressed with the pics I googled.

Looks like a lot of variation in what is bred. Looks like either a stubby boxer or a too tall bulldog. imo
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Google does show a large varience in the breed. I believe an issue may be in people simply cross breading a boxer and an english bulldog and calling it a Valley Bulldog. They are supposed to be their own breed at this point and require no crossbreeding.

The one down the road from us is actually a pretty good looking dog. Does remind me of a stumpy boxer but he looks very built and strong. Also looks pretty cute. Could be that he has the same colouring as my late boxer.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Click image for larger version

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This is one pic I found
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Google does show a large varience in the breed. I believe an issue may be in people simply cross breading a boxer and an english bulldog and calling it a Valley Bulldog. They are supposed to be their own breed at this point and require no crossbreeding.

The one down the road from us is actually a pretty good looking dog. Does remind me of a stumpy boxer but he looks very built and strong. Also looks pretty cute. Could be that he has the same colouring as my late boxer.
Yeah, I just think it looks like someone couldn't make up their mind if they wanted a boxer or a bulldog lol, and I'm a fan of both breeds.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I thought I knew them but I got them confused with these guys.
https://www.dog-breeds-expert.com/Al...d-Bulldog.html


And if your looking, don't over look the American Bull Dogs. And there are multiples of them! But the top two, "types" are the Scott American Bull Dog (designed for work, hog catching dogs) as opposed to the Johnson Type Bull Dog Bull (which look like they have more Boxer in them??) Judging by the muzzle?? I have no idea if the Johnson type can actually "work" anymore but they tend to look look like Boxers on steroids!

https://pets.thenest.com/difference-...ogs-12991.html

And you'll see the "term" Band Dog, in that link also and Band Dogs are not a "Breed" as such but a form of "work," large dogs designed for "Work." IPO/PPD stuff and such. They don't seem to be that great at the "IPO and Mondo ring" and such. They don't to be appear to be too great at those endeavors however?? As I understand ... they are fairly hard to "motivate??"

But hey, if you hail from cattle and hog catch breeds ... a guy with a stick is not much of a threat?? But when you do get there attention ... they explode!! But if one is serious about the "IPO/Mondo Ring," stuff and even PPD, you'd just get a Mal or a GSD and call it day!

GSD's would be my first choice now cuz you know I had one. So "now" I get them but that said ...if you don't get them right (WL GSD)?? You can have uh "People Issues!" Everyone outside of there pack, is a "threat!??"

Unlike Boxers that if well adjusted, to tend to like everyone as a general rule?? Wl GSD's trust "No one" they don't know! A lot of freaking people find themselves in over there head with those dogs ... all the time! Still they are always number three in most popular dogs in American ... go figure??

I know "nothing of Mal's??" As such save for kinda mouth (Mal-agaitors) and even one of the Pros I follow, has to crate her Mal, to keep him out of trouble when she takes a shower. Her "Pit" she put's in "Place" end of story but her Mal ... not so much?? So in the Crate he goes!

But ... GSD's and Mal's are both used by a lot of top level "dog Trainers" in rehab work for "Aggressive Dog" rehab. Because they are good at "reading dogs!" I saw that with my GSD. If ever there was a dog that was gonna be "Dog Aggressive" I thought, it was him??? But clearly it was not?? His issue was "Rank Drive" and that was .. "at home" with my "Band Dog" ... out and about ..he did not crap a about other dogs ... but that's another story.

Back on point, one can't really cast "dispersion's" at the "Valley Bull Dog" because it's not AKC registered?? It takes a lot of time and effort to "establish a "Breed Standard??" But those guys have been around for a long time!

One of the more recent aka accepted "Breed" is the "Dogo Argentino :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogo_Argentino

Just officially recognized a few years ago by the AKC! That is a "Dawg!" And he does have "Boxer content" ... in him to ensure people friendly! Although they do have a propensity to "Dog Aggression" ... unless properly trained ... not a dog for fools.

But one can't really "whine" about ... this has Boxer and this does not in them, with Bully's?? The whole "bag of Bully's" all come from "Mastiffs and "English Bull Dogs" ie Dogs of Molosser World.

Molossers breeds (Molosser dogs, Molossers, Mastiff breeds)

As does the Boxer so ...yeah.

But the Valley Bull Dog in particular ... was bred to create a better ie more healthy "English Type" Bull Dog. For one he has real legs and a less mashed up face for better breather. It should have fewer "health issues" than a true "English Bull Dog??" And there is also the Rose Bull Dog along those same lines.

So I suppose if you want, you could call them designer dog?? But they have been around in that fashion for 50 years or more I imagine? The lot of them.

And if you wanna go hard core, old school ...ie American Band Dog you'd go wayy back to Swinford's Band Dawg, for a proto type! APBT and Masstiff.

My first dog Gunther was a Band Dog, 25% Bull Mastiff, 25% lab and 50 % APBT ... he did have a problem (for real) with other dogs ... but he got over it with time.

At any rate if one gets involved with any "Molosser" type dog, one will find any of them to be "quite familiar" in "personalty??" The more moderate in size "types" Boxerish do tend to be more athletic, the heavier they get the lazier they tend to be ... I imagine?? And the shorter and more Bull Dogish, the more "pigged and stubborn."

Well I got more but that is enough for now.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I had a working line GSD 40 years ago. Imported sire/dam both with Schutzhund titles. He was a very well balanced dog, good with people and other dogs. I've also had American bred GSD. Those at least the ones I had had people issues. The working ling was a much more balanced brain wise. He took longer to train in obedience as he would get bored with it. By the time he was 2 he was all together. At that time the vet I went to always had a crowded office. I could put him in a down, people and dogs could walk right over the top of him to get where they were going and he would not budge. I'd say nose down and when he was lying there he'd flatten his nose to the ground. He by far was the best trained, most well rounded dog I ever owned.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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If I wanted a dog that was about the same height as a boxer but with more bulk I would probably just get a Rottie.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Lindar51;1987722]I had a working line GSD 40 years ago. Imported sire/dam both with Schutzhund titles. He was a very well balanced dog, good with people and other dogs. I've also had American bred GSD. Those at least the ones I had had people issues. The working ling was a much more balanced brain wise. He took longer to train in obedience as he would get bored with it. By the time he was 2 he was all together. At that time the vet I went to always had a crowded office. I could put him in a down, people and dogs could walk right over the top of him to get where they were going and he would not budge. I'd say nose down and when he was lying there he'd flatten his nose to the ground. He by far was the best trained, most well rounded dog I ever owned.[/QUOTE

]Working line, Show line and the American Show Line GSD's, can all have "people issues??" And where they come from (the dog) doesn't really change that, to a degree. If the dog has "solid nerves," (good breeding) can determine the ultimate out come in order to get them uh better. And that does a degree of knowledge and skill?? And uh yeah no "Flooding" with those guys! By there "nature" they are bred to bite, it's part of there DNA. And most (well alot) of "Bully" first and GSD second, owners ... can find themselves in uh ..."Deep Crap" with a "GSD!"

If you get something wrong?? In the first year??? GSD's tend to become subject to the "old my dog changed" bit?? Usually in the 14 to 18 month range. Happens all the time ... still ... apparently. The second "lesson" they will learn is, "Formal Obedience Training, Won't Solve Behavioral Issues."

GSD's can do formal obedience, half asleep. The surprise wil be that just because he/she, Sit's Stays, Downs, Recalls ... etc, etc. Does not mean crap! The issues start at home and how the dog lives with the owner day in day out. And if GSD owners are "Bully ie Boxer" owner first ... that in home "Structure" tends to be uh pretty lose, if practiced at all???

Now I'm gonna guess, that most Boxer owners don't practice "Strict Structure in the home??" Our dogs tend to be free to move about indoors as they see fit ie "Free Roaming" Indoors. They hop on the furniture at will and short of "tearing up stuff" when left alone, few are crated and most sleep in our beds and not in a crate at home.

I don't "know" these things to be true ... but it's how I always rolled and it "was" no big deal ... until it was!!

And least one tend to think ... well BYB, dogs?? Uh "NO" one of my best "saves" ever was a High End Female GSD gifted to her by her very well off friend. She was a "Very Experienced Bully," owner but her issues with her Wl GSD were so bad that the dog was scheduled for "Death, on that day at 4:30!

I saw the thread but let it go, it seemed the call had been made so you know what could I do?? But one of my friends online reached out and asked me to pitch in. MAWL (Mine Are Working Line) and she has 4 WL GSD and one SL, and the kicker, she is a LE K9 trainer!

So there was lot's of help ... including the Dogs Breeder!! But nothing was helping ...thus far?? And the issue was "people!" Everyone aside from her ... was a "threat and it needed to be taken down!!"

I do believe she had even tried to hire a "Trainer" and clearly that did not work?? So I did what I do and sigh ... I explained ... "More and Better Structure" in the home. And of course "Place and Sit on the Dog!"

Well you know time goes by and we heard nothing?? And then one day a few months later ... she post again with her uh other "Dogs??"

Now she made no mention of other dogs before but she post everybody in "Place" with there bones. And my jaw hit the floor. There was the obligatory little dog and her GSD of course but also were not one but two Cane Corso's!!

But the WL GSD was the one giving her grief!?? But if you get them right out the gate (WL GSD) which includes, proper structure in the home, you can sail right thru the "Change Period" and won't even notice it! And when you get it right ... they are pretty amazing freaking dogs, no doubt! They are a "Breed" that will have your back! So you know "folks" here that want a GSD also, you have been duly warned.


But you know where do these "potential" issues come from?? Which takes us back on point. And had I stuck with Band Dogs and Boxers/Boxer APBT mixes, ire Bully's. I most likely would have never had so much to say and so much learning to do, and so much to catch up on??

Cuz what I did not know or understand what I was "avoiding" without actually knowing, I was avoiding it, was "High Rank Drive??" A "Breeds desire to climb the Social Ladder." And that info can be found here, under the FAQ ... are they safe with kids? "High Rank Drive discussion. :
https://midgardkennels.wordpress.com...ked-questions/
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