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Old 12-30-2019, 07:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What's the one thing you'd love to train your dog next year?

For me I guess it would be more confidence when we meet new people.

Sometimes she acts very cautious, but I'd love her to know - I'm here, I'm cool, we're cool. Nothing to worry about.

What's yours?

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Old 12-31-2019, 12:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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For me that's easy! Off leash walking! For you ... it's gonna be a bit more ... "complicated??" If actually "liking people" is your goal??" If you wanted a "Boxer," that actually liked uh ... "everyone??" An American Line Boxer, would have been a better choice?? Cuz that is more or less the "why" of the AL Boxer. And barring abuse or trauma all the AL Boxer's on here, and that I have seen, save for one or two (in the real world) seem to be pretty much the same (as her) in regards to "liking people. "

But I don't wanna, derail a pretty good thread. So here, I'll just say there is a difference between "timid and aloof." My GSD was never gonna be like my people, luv'ing Boxer, (Struddell) but when I got him from being, actively hostile (with strangers) to aloof, I was thrilled!

So I don't know what the deal is?? But as long as she knows you have her back and she seem's to?? You don't wanna try and make her something she is not.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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For me that's easy! Off leash walking! For you ... it's gonna be a bit more ... "complicated??" If actually "liking people" is your goal??" If you wanted a "Boxer," that actually liked uh ... "everyone??" An American Line Boxer, would have been a better choice?? Cuz that is more or less the "why" of the AL Boxer. And barring abuse or trauma all the AL Boxer's on here, and that I have seen, save for one or two (in the real world) seem to be pretty much the same (as her) in regards to "liking people. "

But I don't wanna, derail a pretty good thread. So here, I'll just say there is a difference between "timid and aloof." My GSD was never gonna be like my people, luv'ing Boxer, (Struddell) but when I got him from being, actively hostile (with strangers) to aloof, I was thrilled!

So I don't know what the deal is?? But as long as she knows you have her back and she seem's to?? You don't wanna try and make her something she is not.
Hi Chip. You answered it much better than I explained it......!

You're right. I don't want her to 'Like' everyone. I love that she is naturally weiry and alert to strangers.

What I would like is for her to appear more confident and less afraid... While she keeps an eye on them (if that makes sense?). Rather than looking like she wants to run for the hills (haha).

This only happens sometimes with certain people, and I can usually give a 'look' or 'speak' command which switches her on, her tail shoots up instantly, and she becomes much more switched on.

I also love that she never let's strangers touch her on the top of her head. She bobs and weaves if anyone tries, however she does allow small children to do it.

Not sure why that is?

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Old 12-31-2019, 02:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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For me that's easy! Off leash walking! For you ... it's gonna be a bit more ... "complicated??" If actually "liking people" is your goal??" If you wanted a "Boxer," that actually liked uh ... "everyone??" An American Line Boxer, would have been a better choice?? Cuz that is more or less the "why" of the AL Boxer. And barring abuse or trauma all the AL Boxer's on here, and that I have seen, save for one or two (in the real world) seem to be pretty much the same (as her) in regards to "liking people. "

But I don't wanna, derail a pretty good thread. So here, I'll just say there is a difference between "timid and aloof." My GSD was never gonna be like my people, luv'ing Boxer, (Struddell) but when I got him from being, actively hostile (with strangers) to aloof, I was thrilled!

So I don't know what the deal is?? But as long as she knows you have her back and she seem's to?? You don't wanna try and make her something she is not.
Ok 'aloof' I like. Strangely I'd never even considered that this may be the case: 'Not*interested*or*involved, usually because you do not*approve*of what is*happening.' I can defo live with this and wouldn't want to change that one bit. Thanks again Chip.

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Old 12-31-2019, 07:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I actually didn't mind the dogs I had there were aloof to strangers it was a lot easier dealing with that than trying to bite them! I had one dog who didn't like any strangers or any other dogs except for a few choice ones I learned to live with that too she was a fantastic dog in all other ways. I don't know if I agree with the American boxer being more friendly I have had 4 American boxers and all of them were either aloof or downright aggressive towards other people and animals. The two I have now male 87% Euro and female 1/2 Euro are the friendliest dogs I have ever had they like everyone I have used similar socialization and all other training to all my dogs I had to work much much harder to make the other dogs temperaments fit in with my lifestyle of taking them everywhere with me. My Vet complimented me on all I had done with two of my females that were on the more aggressive side she said in the wrong hands those dogs would have been really bad. So I guess in short the way I feel about it is your Boxer Princess is beautiful and really in the long run the only people she has to love and respect is you and your family and that's it. I don't like everyone I meet along the way and I don't expect my dogs to either!!
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hi Chip. You answered it much better than I explained it......!

You're right. I don't want her to 'Like' everyone. I love that she is naturally weiry and alert to strangers.

What I would like is for her to appear more confident and less afraid... While she keeps an eye on them (if that makes sense?). Rather than looking like she wants to run for the hills (haha).

This only happens sometimes with certain people, and I can usually give a 'look' or 'speak' command which switches her on, her tail shoots up instantly, and she becomes much more switched on.

I also love that she never let's strangers touch her on the top of her head. She bobs and weaves if anyone tries, however she does allow small children to do it.

Not sure why that is?

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Most boxers I have met do not like over the head petting, including my guy.

I know a lot of peoples first reaction to meeting a dog is to pet the head but its really not a good idea especially with the wrong dog. I always tell people don't pet his head and don't lean over him.


As for training goals, I'm going with training him how to make dinner.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I actually didn't mind the dogs I had there were aloof to strangers it was a lot easier dealing with that than trying to bite them! I had one dog who didn't like any strangers or any other dogs except for a few choice ones I learned to live with that too she was a fantastic dog in all other ways. I don't know if I agree with the American boxer being more friendly I have had 4 American boxers and all of them were either aloof or downright aggressive towards other people and animals. The two I have now male 87% Euro and female 1/2 Euro are the friendliest dogs I have ever had they like everyone I have used similar socialization and all other training to all my dogs I had to work much much harder to make the other dogs temperaments fit in with my lifestyle of taking them everywhere with me. My Vet complimented me on all I had done with two of my females that were on the more aggressive side she said in the wrong hands those dogs would have been really bad. So I guess in short the way I feel about it is your Boxer Princess is beautiful and really in the long run the only people she has to love and respect is you and your family and that's it. I don't like everyone I meet along the way and I don't expect my dogs to either!!
Uh Oh?? Despite my original intent???
I've managed to yet again expand a simple question ... way beyond the original entente?? Man I am a "PIA" at times ... but hey I can fix it in another post here.

So here we go! And first I will concede that you have way more first hand experience and knowledge than most of us here?? Aside from BTE2 (our pro) who seem's to be gone?? And Breeders and of course Kara comes to mind?? Most of us have only dealt with one or maybe two in our life times??? Struddell was sigh, my second Boxer ... And while conformation wise, she had her flaws and the ticking time bomb of DM??? Temperament wise, she was spot on! And I would dare say she represented the "temperament of the Boxers that were created "after" WWII, for American's!

Cuz Boxer's were already here in the early 1900's. But no one cared?? Most likely the first Boxer's were full Euro's and they were "too much dog" for most American's So they were here but no one cared?? It was only after WWII, when the troops came home and the "Dog Men" of the time went to work on the "Breed" and the "our" Boxer's became smaller, slimier and well more "insipid" (if your gonna be mean.)

But whatever, they were the perfect Boxer for America and there "popularity" soared after WWll! And "Temperament wise" and I was not there?? But I would say that my Struddell, represented exactly, the personality that they were seeking way back then?? They just like and trust "everybody??" No "special skill's" required to raise them.

And "liking people" is a trait that is rare in "Working Line Dog's" as a general rule?? By contrast Wl GSD's (for one) are breed to uh bite people! And a lot of "owner's" struggle to figure that one out??? And it has "nothing" to do with, "how they are raised??"

And of course dog's that uh don't much care for people can be "managed successfully." And if you can back them down from "hostile" to aloof, your doing great!! You just can't expect, such a dog to get to the point where they actually "like people" as it's just not part of there nature??

At any rate, all or most of the "White Boxer's" I've seen on here for the most part do seem to be as describe "exactly" like my Struddell in character?? And as it happen's the founding Mommy of modern day Boxer's was a White Dog!

And I will grant that I got Struddell in 2003. So yeah a long time ago. Still after I lost her in 2013, the next year, I attended as a participant "Dog Care Taker," my first Boxer's and Buddies event!

They were mostly Flashy and Brindle's and all were Boxer's ... I had never met! And yet they greeted me like I was there long last Dad! Hey Dad, where have you been kinda thing?? I broke down and cried for a bit ... but I had work to do!

Cuz they gave me the exception to take of for the day! They gave me the one exception ... a fear of people Boxer???I had seen the week prior at "Petco" he was off to the side by himself and looked despondent, sad and beat down!

It broke my heart when I saw how despondent he looked but the next week ... I got to work with him! And while I thought of myself as a "Dog Trainer??" With Rocky ... I became more of a "Behaviorist" than a "Dog Trainer???"

Think Cesar Millan and no doubt ... he is very good at what he does! And that is kinda sorta why he got "beat Down" by the Pig Killing French Bull Dog! Cuz you know ... I'd have taught him ... "you ought keep a leash on that dog!" But hey ... I'm just some guy.

Back on point and Tick Tac Toe, that was the sad Boxer's name. Fear of people and he was a serious hard core puller! So lesson one a SLL which no one there understood how to use and frankly I had never seen before?? But I got it, out the gate! And while it did not work for them ... it worked great for me! So "No Pulling," he got that inside of uh ... three minuet's??

So no longer an issue (for me) but from there ... we were working in absolutely the worst environment possible! it was some Holiday event and people and dog's were everywhere!

And Tick Tac Toe, provide, me with "Proof Concept" for work I had already done with "Rocky," WL GSD, who uh did not much care for stranger's, to be generous.

So we just walked the grounds and on occasion, we would stop and talk to folks. And per "Rocky," if approached ... I would always stop at about 5 feet away and answer questions. If I am working with a "Fearful or Aggressive Dog??" And "frankly" I don't give a crap which, cuz either one can ... bite the crap the crap out of someone "out of the blue??' So it's best to just keep people "out of there face," in my opinion.

And if a "people issue" dog is under my care ... I am extremely uh anal! So for most of the day with "Fear of people, Tic Tac Toe (Boxer) this is what did ... and he was good with this! Frankly ... it was just like walking my "Struddell" for the most part, no big deal. And frankly ... I had no idea what they meant when they told me this Boxer had "people issues??" And then with another person ... "I saw it!"

Questions where asked and per my protocol, we stopped and answered. And Tic Tac Toe as expected waited calmly by my side, no big deal. But then the lady asked (of course) my I pet?? And as I contemplated an answer ... she stepped forward. Inside my five foot barrier and at that point ... Tic Tac Toe, stepped back and pressed into my thigh and looked up at me?? I looked down and his eye's were big as saucers!! And now I saw it! OK "fear of people!" My hand went out and I said "Stop!" He has a fear of people issue's and we are working on it. And with that ... we where outta there!

So that is what happened with him, my "only" people issue "Boxer." And the rest of the story, is the next week when I went back I fully expected to be working with Tic Toe, again?? But much to my surprise ... he had been adopted!

And the whole lot of those Boxer's were "all" America Line and the lot of them ... pretty just liked people by "nature," Tic Tac Toe was the sole acceptation and I'm pretty sure some tool, somewhere in his past ... did something to him?? So for "me" when I do get my next AL Boxer ... which sigh ... will most likely, now be a male ... I do expect him to like uh "everyone??"

But if he does ... not?? While I will disappointed, I can deal. Timid/Aggressive/ or Fearful ... the right "protocol" is the same. You mange the dog's "Space" and keep people out of there face!

And if A/L Boxer's temperament has changed since 2003, then I say a lot of "breeders" suck! Fear/Timid or Aggression in a Al Boxer Pup ... would seriously tick me off! But hey ... I could deal.

But hey now we are seriously, " off topic??" And so yet again ... my bad?? But you know ... Breed's have changed?? And the Military ... no longer use's GSD's?? The Air Force Breeds American Line Mal's for "our" troops." As Wl GSD's were getting to be hard to find??

You have to choose the right Breed and the right puppy to get what you expect?? And I don't know what is going on with Boxer pup's these day's??? But in a Boxer ... I do know what I want.So time will tell if lighting can strike twice in the same place for me ... I guess??
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt74 View Post
Most boxers I have met do not like over the head petting, including my guy.

I know a lot of peoples first reaction to meeting a dog is to pet the head but its really not a good idea especially with the wrong dog. I always tell people don't pet his head and don't lean over him.


As for training goals, I'm going with training him how to make dinner.
Aww, well as a general rule ... most dog's don't take well to being petted over the head! My nemesis on Germanshepardsheardforum, with his crazy ass, Kennel Master Attacking Mal/Cross ex Navy Seal Dog, went into great detail to explain why such was the case.

It was a good post and it did make sense! Nonetheless "I" will say, that if you have a "Dog" that is truly "comfortable," with people/strangers ... they won't care about the over the head stuff??

A dog that actually "like's" contact with "stranger's??" Won't display "avoidance behavior" I believe?? "Everyone," is my friend ... is just as much a "breed Characteristic" as is "bred" to bite?? If one is true ... then so is the other. Truly, People friendly, people safe dog's are easy to spot (hmm I feel.) I had one for a week.

APBT would have been Sally, rescued straight off the street! Long story cut short, on a walk with her and Rocky we got stopped and asked to pet?? Rocky (my GSD) I had about 7 years's at this time ... i said, "I'd rather you did not." And Sally the APBT, I had for uh two day's that they asked about next to maybe pet?? I said "sure" no problem! And she was just fine with however they reached out to pet her!

For me ... that is how I expect a truly people safe dog to behave. If I see/perceive, anything other than, acceptance without issue?? It's pretty much, uh yeah No! Keep your distance, he does not like strangers and we are working on it. Most people accept that, I only had "once" where someone challenged me??? And that got ... tense!

It was a "all dog's like me," person. And he was willing to take the chance ... but I was not! He backed down and we moved on. My dog, my call, there is nothing to be gained by some random contact form someone we would most likely never see again?? Unless of course "Rocky" chose no ... I don't really like this guy and did bite bite him?? It was not worth the risk to me. Rocky was "civil" around stranger's, I got him to the point, where he did not care. And for him and me ... that was good enough. He was clearly not my Stranger Luv'ing Boxer. And once I understood that ... "Good Enough!"
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Oh and as for making Dinner?? LOL well without thumbs?? That would be kinda tuff for a Dog, I would imagine???
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Old 01-01-2020, 01:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I actually didn't mind the dogs I had there were aloof to strangers it was a lot easier dealing with that than trying to bite them! I had one dog who didn't like any strangers or any other dogs except for a few choice ones I learned to live with that too she was a fantastic dog in all other ways. I don't know if I agree with the American boxer being more friendly I have had 4 American boxers and all of them were either aloof or downright aggressive towards other people and animals. The two I have now male 87% Euro and female 1/2 Euro are the friendliest dogs I have ever had they like everyone I have used similar socialization and all other training to all my dogs I had to work much much harder to make the other dogs temperaments fit in with my lifestyle of taking them everywhere with me. My Vet complimented me on all I had done with two of my females that were on the more aggressive side she said in the wrong hands those dogs would have been really bad. So I guess in short the way I feel about it is your Boxer Princess is beautiful and really in the long run the only people she has to love and respect is you and your family and that's it. I don't like everyone I meet along the way and I don't expect my dogs to either!!
Luv this. Thanks.

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