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Old 09-21-2018, 10:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Raw diet and cancer

Has anyone had an entirely raw-fed dog, who never ate any grain, develop cancer? Before I switched to a raw diet every one of my dogs died of cancer, the oldest one barely 10, but since, none of them has, one living to 16.5 years (Lab mix, not a Boxer). What have your experiences been like with raw-fed dogs vs. kibble?
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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nobody answered this post, but I would like to know if anyone has any observations
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Most likely only a handful of members are feeding exclusively raw??? But as a general rule dogs feed raw seem to have fewer issues all around?? Especially the itching thing. Which I never saw with my short guys but when I got Rocky my GSD ... there were big time issues with kibble and itching!
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ive seen both, but limited to a small sample size of people I know. I know of exclusively raw fed dogs pass young, and some that lived long. Same goes for canned foods and bad kibble. One of our dogs when I was younger was fed only cheap Alpo dog food from a can and lived to somewhere around 16-17.

I mentioned awhile ago I wish they did a controlled study on dogs fed raw and dogs fed kibble/canned. Would love to see the results
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A little background on how I began feeding Raw, why we stopped & subsequent health issues experienced in the last year:
My 6 year old Nico has had issues with food since the first day I got him - he ate another dog's food and broke out in hives at 8wks old. After a lot of research I began feeding Honest Kitchen grain free turkey & he did fabulous for 3 years. At 3, Mia joined the family and after several months it became clear that honest kitchen (different grain-free varieties) didn't agree with her so we began to try various different grain-free dry kibble brands & ended with Acana Pork & Squash. After 6 months, recurring ear infections, elevated liver levels, & removing 3 skin tags from Nico's legs + definite decrease in Nico's energy & attitude + never healing puppy acne on Mia's muzzle/chin, I transitioned both Boxers to a completely raw diet.
Did the research, purchased supplements, and created a homemade 60/20/20 raw diet - Protein/Starch/Vegetable. And like another poster previously mentioned, protein fed was pretty much based on cost of meat at the time of purchase (which quickly began to really add up when buying protein for 85-90lb male & 60lb female). Both seemed to be doing Fabulous on the raw diet for about 5-6 months - 80% reduction in poop, shiny coats, and full of energy! Then noticeable bronzing (brown staining on white fur - hair follicles turn brown when growing through infected skin) began to appear on their paws/muzzles/head with the tell tale Frito chip smell & previously white toe nails were now stained dark red beginning from their nail beds, ears became super sensitive (with Nico making a non-stop ice crunching noise with his jaws), paws became super sensitive & my Lake dogs didn't want to go into the water anymore + Mia's chest and stomach skin changed from various shades of pink to dark red & while that wasn't out of the norm for her, I'd never seen such a wide variation of skin tone changes on any of my other Boxers & it didn't seem like it should be occurring on an everyday basis. Took both Boxer's to our regular vet who said there wasn't anything to worry about except that both had severe ear infections w/ bacterial & yeast overgrowth & that there wasn't anything wrong with the fur staining on paws "the staining was probably just from their saliva" or their toe nail discoloration & Mia's skin tone that went through various shades of pink/red coloring on a recurring basis. The Vet never discussed that some or all conditions could be from food/environmental allergies and basically reassured me that all we needed to treat were their random ear infections - and since neither dog ever sat around scratching themselves (At All), I decided to trust that they knew what they were talking about and go from there.
After 2 months of meds & recheck visits with no improvement in previously white fur & nails now being brown & red, I searched for a Vet that specialized in ear/skin issues & found a board certified Vet dermatologist.
Turns out, dogs can either have existing, or develop over time and exposure, allergies to A LOT of animal & plant based proteins, in addition to environmental allergens. So we began an elimination diet - purely Vegan - to reset their systems to level zero and begin trying to determine whether food or environment allergens were the primary culprit with both dogs. After 3 months of Vegan diet + antibiotics, anti-fungal, and oral antihistamine meds - Ear infections cleared up, fur turned back to white, toe nails began clear growth again and energy/attitude went back to full speed. Upside of elimination diet, immediate weight loss - so my 90lb male boxer dropped to his fighting weight of 75-80lbs. Downside of elimination diet, there are only so many beans/potatoes/veggies a dog wants to eat (and immediately eliminate) and it's not a balanced diet as a maintenance plan + you have to cook A LOT of beans/potatoes/veggies to feed 2 large Boxers with both dogs being continuously hungry and pooping 2 - 3 times more than normal. So we began trying each one of the Rx limited ingredient/exotic protein diets available through Vets & the only one that both dogs could tolerate and didn't seem to have allergic reaction to was the Rayne Nutrition Rabbit Maintenance.
Fast forward 6 months & first 3 of the 6 both Boxers did great! Then began noticing both dogs becoming hungry again an hour or two after eating, gaining weight + amount of poop doubling (while color of kibble began changing from one bag to the next). Next Nico's ears seem to be bothering him (ice crunching noise & holding them at a weird angle), nail beds began turning dark red again & paws smelled yeasty & his hocks had dark skin pads that I hadn't noticed until a sore appeared & burst so he went back on elimination diet. And even though both dogs were on 2x daily antihistamines, this has been a really bad year for environmental allergens and Mia's muzzle had 2 rather large sores/acne spots that hadn't gone away in over 3 months and she was now beginning to have hives over various parts of her body so back to the Vet Dermatologist we go. We also noticed that Rabbit Rx food packaging had 2 different variations for a single food version (Rabbit & Potato or Rabbit and Chic Pea as the named variety with the same list of ingredients on both), so my Vet contacted Rayne food manufacturer & even though there weren't any posted recipe changes on their website or packaging, the Manufacturer confirmed that there HAD been recipe changes but those changes weren't to primary ingredients & shouldn't affect any of the dogs eating the food, oh and there had been a mis-print on the packaging.
With that confirmation we weren't thrilled, but assuming Mia's new symptoms were more environmental continued her on kibble diet - until 2 wks later & a newly begun bag of food started causing Mia to vomit and/or spit up reaction to her food. Previously, I'd always assumed over excitement caused Mia to vomit when she played, since it never slowed her down nor did she ever act like she had a stomach ache, but eventually she also began spitting up when walking around. Vet informed me that vomiting/spitting up can be a reaction caused by the build up of allergens in their system (can be food or environmental), or an immediate reaction to a specific allergen. So Mia went back on elimination diet & her muzzle sores immediately began to heal + hives went away & red nails are now returning to clear. Unfortunately, 2nd go round of the elimination diet hasn't had previous positive affect with Nico. Feeding him the same bean protein/starch/veggie diet we finally had success with last time, isn't having similar positive results this time and he's always hungry. Have also now realized that beans high in potassium cause incontinence in Mia so we're down to black beans as the only plant protein both can eat. Neither dog can handle grains and as a last option I've taken potatoes out of the diet to see if removing the starch will be the solution for Nico so to be cont'd on that front.
Long story short(er), if your dogs can handle raw and you have time and money to either purchase or homemake a balanced raw diet, it may be a great (but expensive) solution. From my own personal (not-a-vet) experience, if your dog has ANY type of existing allergens or food sensitivities, beginning a Raw diet could do more harm than good (i.e. sustained exposure to large quantities of animal protein may generate food sensitivities where none previously existed). And unfortunately, it's now abundantly clear that without any active governance and/or quality control over U.S. pet food manufacturers, it's a crap shoot as to whether or not what you're feeding your dog is the same as what's advertised on the dog food label. And since my Nico seems to have reactions to any/all processed dog foods, my Vet dermatologist is referring me to a board certified Vet nutritionist so that we can formulate a homemade, hypoallergenic Boxer diet with balanced nutrition that will hopefully help them both feel full as well as healthy.
Sorry this turned into a book!
JJ
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Big Jake, Thanks for your post, I found it very informative. Has your vet ever had you do a NutriScan on your dogs? From another forum not boxer related a member had this done on her dogs and found some interesting results a to sensitivities in foods. She now home cooks their food and has eliminated the symptoms her dogs had. I will search later and see if she has posted what she feeds in case anyone has interest in home cooking. I feed my boxer Victor Select and does well on it. Now he has had the red nails, and also on his muzzle but now after eating we clean his face with hexacloradine wipes. It has eliminated all acne/red muzzle. We are also diligent in waking his bowl after each meal with hot soapy water then apple cider vinegar and rinsing it well. He also had the red nail and also had his feet washed in a hexacloradine shampoo plus I think there was a cream for awhile, I will need to ask my daughter. Now Kaco Kennels is a breeder who use to frequent this board regularly though I haven't seen her lately. All her dogs are fed raw and she would most probably be a good source of information for the original poster. I hope you can figure out why causes your dogs issues.
this is the link for https://nutriscan.org
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for your response Lindar51! Hadn't ever heard of NutriScan, but just had environmental skin test on Mia & she came back with 17 allergens - quite the overachiever!
My vet dermatologist's reviewed her opinion with me that food sensitivity test results aren't really reliable as available to-date, so we haven't gone that route but I'm going to ask her if she's familiar with the NutriScan (thanks for the idea!).
Currently, we've found a Vegan combination that doesn't illicit any adverse reactions, but both dogs are HUNGRY all the time without an animal protein or carb in their diet (adverse reactions to all grains and potatoes).
Fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you view it, each time I've introduced a single protein or carb to their diet, food sensitivities are either immediately apparent or noticeable within the next day or two (Mia's skin turns bright red and/or both dogs will have gagging/coughing episodes within a couple hours or the next day/2 days and both dogs start eating grass). I think next step will be visit with Vet nutritionist to create a homemade meal plan that's maintainable AND filling for the pups. Fingers crossed!
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Big jake, Wow 17 allergens, jackpot! and food on top. You really have your hands full.What does your vet feel about all the hype with no meat/poultry/fish protein, do they have any fear of cardia issues with eating only vergan? One of the member on another forum was having issues with her dog, loose stool, really bad, tried several diets but it would keep occurring. One day someone mentioned do you brush his teeth and she does, stopped the toothpaste and guess what her dog is fine now, There was something in the paste that triggered the reaction. The other persons her dogs do well on home cooked, while they can't eat a certain protein in kibble they can when she prepares it, go figure..Allergies are so confusing. Good luck.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If you go to the BalanceIt site you can find the EZ Recipe balancer. That will give you the option of formulate a home-made diet which is nutritionally balanced by board-certified nutritionists. The vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement is completely vegan and human grade. If you formulate a diet that is vegetarian they want you to test your dog for taurine. Your vet can also contact them about formulating for your specific dogs, and their health issues. We finally formulated a diet with a vet nutritionist for a Boxer with confirmed IBD and concurring pancreatitis. It was fish based, with the BalanceIt calculated to provide the amino acids needed from vegetarian sources. It was amazing how well it worked for us.
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Old 07-22-2019, 06:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Owenowlnest.. Thanks for that info. Our cairn terrier is recently diagnosed with IBD. She was having bouts of non eating, vomiting and gassy looking stool. She has been on science diet digestive formujlar canned for about a month now. Doing well on it,
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