[lillysdad]

Hi Friends, been a while since I posted. Our Gracie is now 5 years old, and I think it's time to add to our family. We are going to view a breeder tomorrow. We were set on getting another female, but I read on another site that adding a baby female to a house with an existing older female is bad. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Gracie is not aggressive or dominant. Any success stories or horror stories? Thank you in advance!

 

[Matt74]

I know the boxer rescue by me will not place a female boxer with someone who already has a female boxer in the house.

There "can" be issues.

Maybe someone on here who has two females successfully can give some pointers.

 

[chip18]

"NO!" Boxer rescue policy is
"No female Boxers, in homes that already have a female Boxer! Experienced owners ... maybe???"

If you already have a "female??" Then get a male and call it day. Inter female aggression is notorious among Boxers!! And they are most likely the worst of lot???

Males fight to Breed, Females fight to Breath, is how it goes! I am one of those "experienced owners" and I luv the girls! But I will only have one female and "she" will be a Boxer.

And so you know ... it could be as long as two years before you become "fully" aware that you have a "problem???" Most likely there will be signals ...wayyy before that?? But the average dog owner is most likely gonna miss them??? And sure we have members here that do have multiple "Female Boxers" and they have "no issues??" But as a wise man once said ..."Do you feel lucky ... Punk??"

I'm pretty good at the dog thing these days ... but two female Boxers?? Is not something I would do or advise! Just get a male and call it a day.

 

[lillysdad]

I've read what the rescue recommends, but I am looking for other owners that have experience with two females, good or bad. This would be a docile and fixed 5 year old introduced to a 8 wk old female. I know many people on here have multiple Boxers, so surely there are stories of either good or bad same-sex pairings. Thanks in advance!

 

[chip18]

Oh that's more than fair?? And yep there are members on here that have more than one female Boxer??? I think there was/is someone that actually has four females and no issues???

But they did not give much in the way of "details" of what they did to make that work?? So you know was it just sheer dumb luck ie the right combination of female personalities?? Or was it "Skill" proper management, Rules/Structure and Limitations?? They did not say and "we" don't know ... what they did???

 

[Lindar51]

I read many horror stories. Seems once the 2nd female matures then the problems start. They will both want to be the dominant one. Even though yours is laid back now she is the dominant one as an only dog, and when the young one wants to take over the problems will start.Sometimes it works .I am on another forum and we just had a discussion I'll see if I can find some of the examples and copy & paste them here.

 

[chip18]

I read many horror stories. Seems once the 2nd female matures then the problems start. They will both want to be the dominant one. Even though yours is laid back now she is the dominant one as an only dog, and when the young one wants to take over the problems will start.Sometimes it works .I am on another forum and we just had a discussion I'll see if I can find some of the examples and copy & paste them here.

Well stated and spot on.

 

[ScoutsDad]

OK, here's my long 2 mature female boxer story.
We had a 7-8-year-old female that we found when she was dumped when she was around 6 months. Her name was Zeda.We had an older alpha female name Chole and they got along great.
We lost the older one Chole when she was 10, and Zeda became my baby.

On vacation at the beach and missing our Zeda when we come across a 7-year-old very friendly female being walked by 2 women. We asked we can pet her and tell them we also have a boxer. Then the women replies "do you want another?". Turns out the lady was getting a divorce and her ex had the dog chained in the backyard. We asked what her name was and she replied "Chole"! The name of our first boxer.
So, we came home with a new boxer to add to our family. Thought we did the right thing and had them meet down the street, but it didn't work out and there was a major fight!
Only then did I did the research on this site and others and read that 2 mature female boxers are one of the worst combos.
I was determined to beat the odds, so we went through 6 months of keeping them apart and professional training for a couple of months and then I trained both 3 times every day for 4 months. Including sharing rugs and beds, and licking each other through the wrought iron gates in our house. They were the best behaved and trained boxers I had ever seen.
Finally put them together on Thanksgiving weekend at a neutral location and it went great!
The next 3 months were wonderful. They slept together and played together. Whenever it got a little rough all it took was a "stop" and they instantly stopped the roughhouse.
I was feeling pretty proud of myself and of my babies! Until they had one fight that took two of us to separate them, then a month later a major fight that took 3 of us and it was ugly. If my wife would have been the only one home at the time it would have been really bad.

Both were raised as only females, but I believe that for most cases 2 mature female boxers is a bad idea. And the rescue policy confirms my belief.

 

[chip18]

OK, here's my long 2 mature female boxer story.
We had a 7-8-year-old female that we found when she was dumped when she was around 6 months. Her name was Zeda.We had an older alpha female name Chole and they got along great.
We lost the older one Chole when she was 10, and Zeda became my baby.

On vacation at the beach and missing our Zeda when we come across a 7-year-old very friendly female being walked by 2 women. We asked we can pet her and tell them we also have a boxer. Then the women replies "do you want another?". Turns out the lady was getting a divorce and her ex had the dog chained in the backyard. We asked what her name was and she replied "Chole"! The name of our first boxer.
So, we came home with a new boxer to add to our family. Thought we did the right thing and had them meet down the street, but it didn't work out and there was a major fight!
Only then did I did the research on this site and others and read that 2 mature female boxers are one of the worst combos.
I was determined to beat the odds, so we went through 6 months of keeping them apart and professional training for a couple of months and then I trained both 3 times every day for 4 months. Including sharing rugs and beds, and licking each other through the wrought iron gates in our house. They were the best behaved and trained boxers I had ever seen.
Finally put them together on Thanksgiving weekend at a neutral location and it went great!
The next 3 months were wonderful. They slept together and played together. Whenever it got a little rough all it took was a "stop" and they instantly stopped the roughhouse.
I was feeling pretty proud of myself and of my babies! Until they had one fight that took two of us to separate them, then a month later a major fight that took 3 of us and it was ugly. If my wife would have been the only one home at the time it would have been really bad.

Both were raised as only females, but I believe that for most cases 2 mature female boxers is a bad idea. And the rescue policy confirms my belief.

WOW!! And, welcome aboard and thanks for sharing.

And most likely the way you came across your second females ... is the only way I would wind up with two female Boxers!!

And by and large most Boxer owners (especially with girls) can't even conceive of there girls nutting up as it were??? But I did see it twice with my Struddell, she went after Gunther over his lack of "Respect" for baby kittens being born??

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8548106-post5.html

And that was not female v female ... so not combatants, that was daddy's girl so Gunther just wanted to get the heck out of Dodge!! But two females bent on killing each other ... good lucky with that!

But that was just a "quirky situation" that I unknowingly setup?? But my Band Dawg and my GSD ... that's when I learned what living with a ticking time bomb was like??? And ... I found out the same thing you did ... "Formal Obedience Training, will not solve behavioral issues! :

And I dare say that by and large as a "group" most Boxer owners are not really ready to be "Dog Trainers??" Pretty sure if we did a poll ... most of our dogs are not crated at night?? They sleep in our beds, they get on the furniture and they are free to roam through the house at will. Other than not jumping on people and being to obnoxious ... they get to do pretty much what they please???

That works well for a multi Boxers home and Male/Female combinations but when you have two females and a "loose structure" it's just a matter of time, till problems arise. And then ... it's a whole nother world!

"Crate and Rotate" is the simplest solution ... one dog crated, one dog out. They are never left unsupervised! Most people aren't willing to do that, much less try and go beyond it?? Most people are just looking to add a another dog and get on with life. Not ... to become "Dog Trainers" but you know ... if one tries the "Two Female" thing and it does not work out ... then that's where they are headed and to that I'll add uh "Good Luck" finding a competent qualified trainer to help them.

But I have to say that we do have a member here that says "two fighting females issues can be solved??" I trust them so I'll take them at there word.


Oh well enough for nw but I do have a question or two?? By and large my whole story is what I got "wrong" with my first formerly Human Aggressive Over Size Working Line GSD! He uh ... did not much care for people??? So you know definitely not a Boxer???

 

[ant]

The way I think about it is this is a left over instinctive behavior inherited from wolves.
You read about it here: https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/23/6/1186/189912


But the short story is that wolf packs are family units, and the when the juveniles reach sexual maturity, they get driven off away from the pack to form their own pack somewhere far away where there is fresh genetics to breed with.



This prevents inbreeding and population depressions in wild dog populations. The dogs with this behavior won out in the process of evolution over the long haul.



It's instinctive.

 

[Lindar51]

I found these comments....

I've read that two females are more problematic than two males or one of each. Unfortunately, I didn't read that until after we got a second Cardigan Welsh Corgi pup, a female, to go with the female we already had. The older dog was very submissive, the most biddable dog I've ever known, but when the pup matured, the two girls started fighting, and not the growling, snarling, over-in-a-minute dispute about a toy. These were bloody, tissue damaging, I-mean-to-kill-you type fights that required my husband and me each to grab a dog by the hind legs and walk them backward until we could grab a collar to keep them separated. We finally rehomed the younger dog, because we were afraid they'd maim or kill each other. The older dog was with us for 15 years and never again so much as curled a lip at another dog. That's why we have a male and a female now. I'll never have two females again. (I told this story to Blue's breeder when she asked if I'd be willing to take a female. She laughed and said, "That's why they call them bitches.")

Now this is a different breed and I should add that many also have two spayed females and all state is really comes down to temperament. If the new dog is also mellow it may work but if it doesn't you will need to always keep them separated when not supervised where you can intervene. I've had two females in my house but they were small shih tzu's and they didn't care.
Looking forward to hear how it all goes.

 

[Sizzle]

Thanks to all who shared their stories. We have two boxer puppies that about 7 months old. They are littermates but we got one at 8 weeks...and the got her sister (runt of the litter) 2 months later. The owners of the parents had a littler of 7. We took Cookie then they told us they still had one pup (that we remembered and almost took originally) so we went back and took Brownie, too.

They definitely played a bit rough...but then it got vicious on a few occasions. It started around food but then a few times with no food involved. They went at it hardcore. Wife and I needing to pull them apart. I am fairly convinced that if we let them keep going, it would be "to the death." So, we have had them separated for about 3 weeks now and it is very stressful on the household. We started speaking to a recommended local board-and-train facility and we are considering a 3-week sleepaway training camp for one of them. They offered 3-weeks for the cost of 2. We have the money to do it...but of course, she could come out and end up going right back at her sister on day 1.

Is it a fool's errand to try and fix this situation? With two female boxers (sisters, no less!) is it just a waste of time/money? Or is it worth a shot? That is what we are faced with now and we don't know what to do. Re-homing one already has caused lots of tears to flow in this house. Any thoughts??? Is there a chance that a serious 3-week board and train program could make this situation better?

 

[[email protected]]

I am so sorry you are going thru this I am sure its hard to watch two dogs you love tear each other up. Unfortunately I am afraid once it has gone "there" escalated to a full blown fight the odds of this being trained out of them are not good. They are not fighting because they hate each other its a dominance thing. I am pretty sure this will continue I think your only options really are rehoming one of them (preferably a home with no other female dogs) or finding a way to let them live separately in your house I know its hard to give one of them up but this situation can be very dangerous for the humans in the house as well as a serious injury to one of the girls. I have always had opposite sexes in the house so I have never had this happen. I hope you can find a good resolution to this problem wishing you all the best!

 

[Matt74]

If you have the money to do the board & train and want to give it a shot, might as well. I'm leaning towards it probably wont matter. I think this is a case of keeping them completely separated or re-homing one. Really any decision sucks in this scenario but if it was me I would re-home one to someone I trust . Maybe you know someone like a friend of the family that you can re-home one of them to. Might make it a little easier for you guys. Good luck in whatever decision you make.

 

[BoxerMomma321]

I have some experience with females under one roof. I have 3 related females.

We have had a few fights over the years that we've had to break up. Overall, they are fine together. I would never bring another female though, puppy or not. It is a matter of their dominance. I have a submissive, a wild child and their dominant mother. Mom puts wild child in her place sometimes, but wild child always submits. Yours are fighting for rank. I have to agree with Luvmiboxers6. Rehome or separate and find a male boxer as company. But this is only from my experience with mine and an opinion.

I wish you all the luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Sizzle]

@BoxerMomma321 Thanks for the info. Our two are sisters...and they were getting along pretty well (other than rough playing) for a month or so. Cookie (fawn) definitely seemed to be the dominant one...and Brownie (brindle), who came here after, seemed okay with that but Cookie just wouldn't let up. In the morning when they woke up (together in our bed after sleeping on top of each other) Cookie would start to playing a bit rough and Brownie would go along for a bit but it seemed like if Cookie didn't start Brownie wouldn't be the aggressor. After Cookie keep on her she would go back a bit hard. It seems like it go the point where Brownie would decide "Eff this - I am not gonna just let you keep going at me." Cookie seemed to start to flex her dominance with the fights but she always came out worse for wear - bleeding, cuts, etc. We literally had to pull them apart with Cookie's ear or cheek in Brownie's clenched jaws (fun! not).

The trainer told us since they were separated for 2 months at 8 weeks they may not even know they are sisters. That surprised me a bit but could be true, I suppose.

Unfortunately I am not hearing a lot of success stories for situations similar to mine. It makes me thing is may not be a movable issue. The pic attached is how they would sometimes sleep in the beginning.

 

[BoxerMomma321]

@Sizzle
I only hope things work for you. It's sounds terribly frightening.

I can add for you that I've had similar short term experience. After we gave the puppies away, my sister in law asked us to watch the pup we gave her a month after leaving our care while she went on vacation for a week. And we were constantly breathing up fights throughout that whole week. It was like they were fine and then they weren't. We ended up separating them for the last 2 days. It was like my girls didn't recognize her. Her pup was a female dominant along with my wild child just spelled disaster.

I can't for sure say how things would've played out, but there's some similarities in your story. I thought I'd share mine with you.

 

[chip18]

Ugh ... well the, "Good New's??" Is you do seem to understand what your up against!! The bad new's is that with two dog's not getting alone?? Two Female Boxer's not getting alone ... is about as bad as it get's!!!

And geez not only to female's but two litter mate's?? I don't really se how you could do worst than that??? But it is what it is. So what now??

So you know, on Dog Forum's as a general rule there are not a lot of "Pro's!" Most don't do Dog Forum's. Cuz you know on the internet ... "Everybody," is an expert!!

And yeah I was one of those! But ... fortunately for you ... I got called out, "On Here," by a Pro! And trust me on this ... I could be a serious "tool!" But we had a "Pro," on here (although few knew at the time??)

And he managed to stop my rampaging ... (see Germanshepardforum) by asking one simple question ...."did I think," that two fighting Boxer female Issues could not be solved?? And that question ... stopped me cold!! It took me day's to reply and when I did ...; "I had to yes ...; I believe it can be resolved!" That wa a few year's ago and it was a relaviation and it did turn me in to much less of rampaging AH!

Cuz my answer after several day's of inflection was "well yeah ultimately with the right process," I did believe a two female fighting issue could be solved!

That Pro is still here as far as know?? But he is now BTE 2 ... if he is still here and he does not your thread try PM'ing him!

But that aside ... right now you are seeking a Pro for help! A good call on your part but ... a three week board and train ... I don't think would work??

As to why exactly ... it may not work is simple. The dog's aren't in your home! If you send them "away" they aren't in your home! They aren't dealing with "you" and there live's would be formally structured! They are told what to do and when ... they will be "Crated Trained," and there every move will be dictated!

That is not necessarily the same situation they will face when they get home??? But whatever ... I did not have the two girls' fighting thing to deal with myself. But I can match that with two male's ... 113 lbs of Over Size Working GSD and 85 lbs of American Band Dawg ... my dog's were fine, no injury's to them cuz I was fast! I had about five dust up's. I was quick and my dog's were fine ... but me ... not so much?? I went to the ER and got stitches in my finger and have to this day a permanently bent little finger from trying to pry Rocky's jaw's open from Gunther's neck!! I guess that was 10 year's ago and my little finger is till bent ?? Good times, Good times ...

Still live and learn and I am gonna guess that you are a "Typical Boxer/Dog Owner??" And that would mean ... sigh the dog's, sleep with you in your bed?? So not Crate trained?? They free roam indoor's and they get up on the furniture as they please??

And most of the conflict's happen indoors?? I don't know but rule one ... is "you can't control a dog indoor's," if you don't know where they are?? Trust me on this ... if you send the dog's to a three week board and train ... those trainer's "will" always, know where the dog's are and what they are doing ... but will you at home??? If the dog's at home are allowed to free roam indoor's ... hop on the furniture at will and sleep with in you in the bed?? "Good Luck" with that ....

A "Pro," can help but they can help best by "teaching you what you need to do!" And any "Pro," that can help will tell you that "all issue's" start at home and how the dog's live with you! "

And the ones that could actually help you ... would tell you what "you" need to do "in your home," to help make it better! If they say they can take them away, and make them better in three weeks ... I doubt that will work, in the long run?

I got more but these are (some) of the key "detail's." And as you know, if your dog's are carving each other up ... your in deep "Cra

But you are looking for help. And you need a "Pro!" But not just "any," Pro? At the minimum ... you need someone that deal's with Dog on Dog Aggression! And not all of them do! And if you then say two female Boxer's ... they most likely take a big breath and say ... "OK then???"

It can be done ... I'm pretty sure but Joe Q average "Dog Trainer," can't get it done?? ANd I would be pretty cautious with a "Board and Train??" Cuz top of my head ... an E-Collar trainer ... won't be able to "fix this crap." But what state are you in?? You might be close to a couple trainer's that have "You Tube," sites that I could recommend??

But worst comes to worst, there is always, "Crate and Rotate," for well life. That would pretty much suck but some people do it. More common on the Germanshepardforum ... it would seem. SOme dog's can be real hard core tool's ....

Well this is enough for now.

 

[chip18]

SIgh ... it is terribly frightening! And I can tell you as a veteran of breaking up in home pack fights and (Me) going to the ER in the process a Male Band Dawg and a GSD ... Rank Drive issues?? A GSD issue ... I had no clue??

Still that was (nothing) compared to the sheer speed and ferocity, I saw from my Baby Girl, Struddell when she objected to Gunther's ... lack of respect, over Baby Kittens being Born??

I messed up ... I had both dog's in the room to observe and Struddell watched with Respect and Silence as she kitten was born. Struddell was on ne side of me and Gunther on the other about eight feet between then. Gunther was more exacted and greeted each brith with a bark?? No big deal to me?? Struddell however thought other wise??? One Two Three and that was freaking it! IF Dad was not gonna teach to show respect ... then she would!!

She cleared me in a single bound and ripped into Gunther, WTH??? She got Gunther by the nose before I could response! Gunther got clear and just wanted to get the Hell of Dodge cuz you know this was Daddy's baby girl ... let him deal with her!

I had to scoop her up and you won't find what I did online! But she was just flat gone! The word "Beserk," comes to mind ... she was Gone! Just insane pure rage?? I held her tight to my head so she could not bite me and got her outside??

And she was still insane, so I could not let her go??? FOr fear she'd hurt herself in a blind rage?? So I pinned her to the ground by laying on her. After several minutes ... I finally felt ehr relax and let her go. And she pop's up with a smile and look's at me with a smile as if to say ... "Hey Dad what's up???

Now for me ... I f'd up and set that situation in play! But it was an eye opener! But Female, Female Aggression and that is the kind of intensity you are looking at! Males fight to breed females fight to breath! And the girl's are serious intense and freakishly fast!!

If you allow them to get within striking distance of another female they have an issue with?? You won't stop them! It would be a battle to the death!! The girl's don't play ... believe that!

OK back and point and to the OP if that "trainer," told you "The trainer told us since they were separated for 2 months at 8 weeks they may not even know they are sisters." Good Luck with that! He does not have a "Freaking Clue!" And I can guarantee you that they will not have both of those dog's sleeping in his bed with him/her!

They will both be sleeping in separate crate's! Don't waste your money! WIth "whoever," that is??? Don't waste your money! The three questions I asked ... the bed, the freeming and the furniture are not just WAG's??

Nope been there done that ands seen it thousand's of times online! And every single time ... if you ask ... the owner of the issue prone dog's is doing those thing's ... "Believe That!"

So with this "new," information?? I would say ... step one is both "Girl's," need to get out of your bed and Crate Train them!! If your willing to do that?? Then you "may," have a chance of keeping both of them?? If your not, it's not really gonna go well?? I follow a lot of the top trainer's that deal with Dog Aggression issues and if you say both of my dog's sleep in my bed with me ... they won't take you as a client.

And in the real world and speaking for myself ... I wanted another "White Boxer Female," but my freaking wife ... messed that up! She roped me into a Female Boxer/Pit .. that was already Crate Trained w/o issues! Bella was fine in the Crate ... me not so much??

Soo, she sleep's with me in my bed! So now if I still want a girl White Boxer?? Both dog's will have to be crated??? And that ticks me off!!! So yeah ...

 

[Lindar51]

My personal opinion is that it will be difficult even after training to have two females get along in the same house. I don't think they know they are littler mates and by separating them for a few months they will forget each other and be friends again. We have new neighbors and they have two females, they do not get along either. They told me they bred , a few times, thinking that would help. Of course it did not and they are poorly bred non tested boxers to begin with. They now spayed and they keep them separated at all times. They use baby gates to keep one on one side of the house and alternate, same with going outside, they go out at different times. Now two neutered males usually are fine together.