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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems to be rather rare to see a Seal (black) colored boxer from what I gather. Normally Brindles or Fawns in some fashion.

While looking for another puppy I found a breeder that has a few Seal colored females that caught my eye.
I am trying to do research on the color and not coming up with too much info on them. Some sites about how Black boxers cannot genetically happen and were mix breed or not recognized by AKC, ect.

does anyone know any more about this color that they can share some more info?
The breeder said they are registered and below are a few pics of the one I am looking at for reference. Almost looks like a little brown can be in there the way the light hits her.

 

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I have a sealed boxer aka (black boxer) In the light you can see just a brown tint but barely. She is pure bred i have seen both parents and seen papers on her. I refer to her a black boxer because to its just easier saying she's black rather than sayin she is a sealed revearse brindle. I dont show her nor do I have plans to show her, she is a pet. Frankily I also dont by that they dont carry a black gene, I mean how else would they get their black masks they have. When they first bred boxer's they were black. so some where down the line the the black gene must be somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I ended up picking her up. I couldnt resist her when I went to go see the litters she had. I already have a brindle and wasnt sure I wanted another unless I got one with more flash in her.
All their pups were brindle or seal colored.

When the sun hits her you can very clearly see the fawn in her. Its almost like she has the color of a chocolate lab. IN a little darker light she looks more black

I deff got more reading to do on this though as it seems pretty controversial
 

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Let first say congrats on your little girl - have you named her? Yes, the "sealed" Boxer is not recognized and I am just hoping your breeder didn't ask more money for her because she is "rare". Sometimes they do that with white Boxers when, in fact, they should be much less. But besides all that, I hope you have many happy, smooshy years with her!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thanks.
no all her pups were the same price regardless of color. She had some flashy brindles that were ready for next week but this one caught my eye and the reason i even contacted her
I have seen other breeders getting more for white too which i thought was strange.

now we are having the fun of socializing our puppy with our 8 month old. aye what a weekend its been soo far. . . . .
 

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Frankily I also dont by that they dont carry a black gene, I mean how else would they get their black masks they have.
The black mask results from a different gene than a black coat.

When they first bred boxer's they were black. so some where down the line the the black gene must be somewhere.
The first Boxers were not black; black showed up in the early 1900s, when a Bulldog bitch was accidentally mated to a black Schnauzer. The resulting pups were registered as Boxers -- this was before the stud book was closed, obviously. Frau Stockmann liked the black dogs and tried to breed and promote the color, but in 1925 the standard was changed to disqualify dogs of any color other than fawn or brindle. In Germany, that meant not only could the black dogs not be shown, but they also could not be bred, because breedings had to be approved by the breed wardens. Stockmann clearly notes this change meant the extinction of the black color in Boxers.

In the early 2000s, "black Boxers" once again started making an appearance. Since black is a dominant gene -- a dog needs only have one copy of the gene to have a black coat, so it can't have laid "hidden" for 80 years -- like the Schnauzer in earlier times, another breed(s) must have contributed the gene. Based on the appearance of the earliest specimens, that other breed may well have been a Lab, so it's not surprising that the coloring looks like a Lab's. A "brown tint" or "sheen", however, is not the same as a fawn base coat.

The reason it's controversial, as Roccosmom pointed out, is that some less-than-scrupulous breeders are capitalizing on the coloring and selling mixed-breed puppies as purebred Boxers for exorbitant prices -- and invariably, these puppies are not what we would consider responsibly bred: no health testing of the parents, no objective evaluations of structure or temperament, no assurances at all to the buyers that their $2,400 dog will look and act like a Boxer when it grows up, nor that it has the best chances to live a long, healthy life.
 

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From the looks of it PM, she is pure bred only time will tell. Every one thought Zoe wasn't pure bred until after I took her to the vet for her first shots. As soon as the vet came in, I asked if he thought Zoe was pure bred. He said with out a dout she lookes pure bred. I have 4 boxers in my life time that were pure bred and zoe fits them to a T. You tell if she is pure, when she gets a little older and she starts doing that wiggle thing when she's happy to see you.
 

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Question - if black is a dominant gene and you only need one copy to have a "black" coat and you breed a boxer that looks "black" to a fawn boxer, will all the puppies look "black" or will some of them be fawn?

Reason I'm asking is that Maggie's mother was "black" looking to me and her father was fawn. There were 10 puppies in the litter. 6 looked "black", 3 were fawn and 1 was white.

Here is a pic of Maggie's mother:
 

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Question - if black is a dominant gene and you only need one copy to have a "black" coat and you breed a boxer that looks "black" to a fawn boxer, will all the puppies look "black" or will some of them be fawn?

Reason I'm asking is that Maggie's mother was "black" looking to me and her father was fawn. There were 10 puppies in the litter. 6 looked "black", 3 were fawn and 1 was white.

Here is a pic of Maggie's mother:
I'm not good with genetics.. But Rocky's dam was flashy fawn and his sire was flashy seal brindle. His litter had 4 white puppies (one with a eye patch), 2 seal brindles (Rocky and a plain), and 3 flashy fawns.
 

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If she's solid black, there's another breed in the mix. It could be several generations back by now, but the Boxer breed does not carry the gene for a solid black coat -- the only way to get one is to introduce another breed.
 

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if black is a dominant gene and you only need one copy to have a "black" coat and you breed a boxer that looks "black" to a fawn boxer, will all the puppies look "black" or will some of them be fawn?
It depends on the other gene the black dog has. If you breed a black dog with one black gene and one fawn gene to a fawn Boxer, you'd expect 50% black and 50% fawn puppies. (That's an average -- it may vary considerably by litter, but over a large number of litters it will hold true.)

If you breed a black dog with one black gene and one brindle gene to a fawn Boxer, you'll get 50% black and 50% brindle. Breeding a dog with two copies of the black gene will produce all black puppies, of course.

White markings are separate from coat color -- two flashy dogs will produce 25% plain, 50% flashy and 25% white on average.
 

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So just because the black gene is dominant, that doesn't mean that that is the gene that will necessarily be passed down to each puppy? Each puppy has a 50/50 shot of which gene they will inherit from each parent?

:)
 

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What exactly is the difference between a ‘sheen’ and fawn undercoat? Max is obviously black and white. However, in the sun you can really see the brown and if you actually look at the individual hairs he has a mix of black and brown. I was actually kind of surprised when I took a closer look and discovered all the brown hairs.
My second question is simple curiosity because I could careless if Max was a purebred but how do you determine that? Meaning are all ‘black’ boxers disqualified as a purebred?
My 3rd question is, is the black boxer automatically disqualified as a purebred and if not what determines that it is? If black does disqualify the pup, why does the AKC essentially support the sale of the black boxer? Common sense would dictate that if black is not a recognized gene, the AKC must not require any evidence nor do they verify the info provided as factual? To point out that the breeder registered the pups as brindle only serves to make my point. The info is not verified? I have never registered a litter so I have no clue what it entails but I am curious simply because the average person assumes these papers mean something.
 

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So just because the black gene is dominant, that doesn't mean that that is the gene that will necessarily be passed down to each puppy? Each puppy has a 50/50 shot of which gene they will inherit from each parent?
Right. Each parent has two genes for color, but passes only one of those genes on to each puppy. (Or, alternatively stated, a puppy has two genes for color and gets one from each parent.) I do have an article on coat color/marking pattern inheritance that discusses the issue, with Punnett squares (which I find help clarify the situation) -- it doesn't address black, but the basic concepts of inheritance are the same.
Coat Color and Marking Pattern Inheritance in Boxers - A Newcastle Boxers Essay

What exactly is the difference between a ‘sheen’ and fawn undercoat?
A fawn undercoat means the dog is fawn with extensive black striping. There will be clearly defined areas of fawn coat on the dog (not just black and brown hairs, but actual "patches" -- albeit perhaps small -- of fawn).

Meaning are all ‘black’ boxers disqualified as a purebred?
Yes. The breed standard states that any color other than fawn or brindle is disqualified from the show ring, and genetics tell us that a solid black dog is not a purebred Boxer.

If black does disqualify the pup, why does the AKC essentially support the sale of the black boxer?
The AKC does not support black Boxers -- "black" is not a color option for the Boxer breed. Breeders of so-called black Boxers misstate the coat color of the puppies, calling them "brindle". (At one point the AKC was allowing "black white and tan", but not any longer.)

To point out that the breeder registered the pups as brindle only serves to make my point. The info is not verified?
The AKC is a registry body, not a breed warden nor a geneticist. They rely heavily on the integrity of breeders and owners, sometimes to their detriment. AKC papers mean simply that the dogs the breeder claims are the parents are both AKC-registered and of the same breed. Random inspections frequently turn up DNA inconsistencies, as does the complaint-driven system, but the AKC registers about 275,000 litters and 575,000 dogs in about 170 breeds every year -- they simply don't have the manpower to physically check every dog compared with its registration papers.
 

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Question - if black is a dominant gene and you only need one copy to have a "black" coat and you breed a boxer that looks "black" to a fawn boxer, will all the puppies look "black" or will some of them be fawn?

Reason I'm asking is that Maggie's mother was "black" looking to me and her father was fawn. There were 10 puppies in the litter. 6 looked "black", 3 were fawn and 1 was white.

Here is a pic of Maggie's mother:
That’s what our Bella looks like! Minus all
The fancy white. She has just a few white markings
 
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