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My 1 year old Buster has had some ongoing issues with vomiting. He has been to his vet as well as the Emergency Vet on multiple occasions but it is hard to pin point the cause without going through a laborious internal medicine process. I do have an appointment on 9/7/21 with someone at UF Small Animal Hospital to discuss nutrition. I was feeding Royal Canin Puppy. I've had him on the highly digestible prescription formula of same brand. Over time the vet and I have tried no play within 1 hour of meal time, smaller more frequent meals, however even though he'll ok for awhile, the vomitting starts again. Anyhow, 10 days ago I started a homemade diet. I found this recipe, Cooking for Dogs - Dale's Recipe but I feel worried since after all my research I'm not 100% meeting all his nutritional needs. Thus the appt on 9/7. I also give him daily Zesty Paws 8in1 multi vitamins as a supplement. I was reading today that for a puppy, per 1 lb of weight he needs 55 calories. So at 63 lbs, he would need almost 3,500 calories per day. Can this be correct? Seems like alot. When i check the Royal Canin bag, he would getting roughly 2300 kcalories. I was trying add up the calories in the recipe noted, for the whole recipe I calculated around 7000 calories. The first batch i made was roughly 20 baggies at 3 cup per bag. I have been feeding him 2 bags a day, so 6 cups. That equates to about 1600 calories a day. So looks like based on the 55per lb rule, he needs 12 cups per day. Can that be right? Anyone have any experience with this. Sorry to be so naive. He's been doing so good on this diet, has not vomited once. Essentially it is made up of turkey, oatmeal, lima beans, kidney beans, broccoli, green beans, carrots, tomatoes, kale or spinach & Canola oitl. That is in order of amount. Any help would be deeply appreciated since I have almost 3 weeks before my appointment with Dr. Hill in internal medicine at UF. THANK YOU!
 

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Brindle baby, If you resolved the vomiting issue, I would just keep doing what your doing, with some mods to make sure there getting a board spectrum on vitamins that they need.
I would give a treat of some sardines in water rinse first, a few times a week.
Bty I agree with you on the so called Royal Cannin.
Be well
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Brindle baby, If you resolved the vomiting issue, I would just keep doing what your doing, with some mods to make sure there getting a board spectrum on vitamins that they need.
I would give a treat of some sardines in water rinse first, a few times a week.
Bty I agree with you on the so called Royal Cannin.
Be well
Thank you for your reply! I was able to get the dr. at UF to tell me to stick with the calories and diet I'm feeding until the appointment, weigh him and keep a food journal. He actually looks healthier now and has put on a few lbs. His sister does great on Royal Canin. I figure I will ask the Nutrionist what they think I should do with her, maybe just move them both to the homemade diet. Thanks again!
 

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To me that diet is heavily plant based with a lot of the protein coming from legumes instead of actual meat.
Ideally a home cooked diet should not contain more than 25% plant base.
 

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My 1 year old Buster has had some ongoing issues with vomiting. He has been to his vet as well as the Emergency Vet on multiple occasions but it is hard to pin point the cause without going through a laborious internal medicine process. I do have an appointment on 9/7/21 with someone at UF Small Animal Hospital to discuss nutrition. I was feeding Royal Canin Puppy. I've had him on the highly digestible prescription formula of same brand. Over time the vet and I have tried no play within 1 hour of meal time, smaller more frequent meals, however even though he'll ok for awhile, the vomitting starts again. Anyhow, 10 days ago I started a homemade diet. I found this recipe, Cooking for Dogs - Dale's Recipe but I feel worried since after all my research I'm not 100% meeting all his nutritional needs. Thus the appt on 9/7. I also give him daily Zesty Paws 8in1 multi vitamins as a supplement. I was reading today that for a puppy, per 1 lb of weight he needs 55 calories. So at 63 lbs, he would need almost 3,500 calories per day. Can this be correct? Seems like alot. When i check the Royal Canin bag, he would getting roughly 2300 kcalories. I was trying add up the calories in the recipe noted, for the whole recipe I calculated around 7000 calories. The first batch i made was roughly 20 baggies at 3 cup per bag. I have been feeding him 2 bags a day, so 6 cups. That equates to about 1600 calories a day. So looks like based on the 55per lb rule, he needs 12 cups per day. Can that be right? Anyone have any experience with this. Sorry to be so naive. He's been doing so good on this diet, has not vomited once. Essentially it is made up of turkey, oatmeal, lima beans, kidney beans, broccoli, green beans, carrots, tomatoes, kale or spinach & Canola oitl. That is in order of amount. Any help would be deeply appreciated since I have almost 3 weeks before my appointment with Dr. Hill in internal medicine at UF. THANK YOU!
I got a vet formulated diet specifically made for an 83 lb, male, fixed Boxer.
the calculated energy requirement was approximately 1703 kcals per day. He had IBD, and a a biopsy had indicated eosinophillic enteritis.Hypoallergenic diets didn't work long. The diet was fish, potato, and some vegetable oil. We added so many scoops of Balance IT canine per day. This contains no animal product, is food grade, and vegan. We needed low-fat because the IBD set off pancreatitis. We added vegetables, and fruit later. He lost weight at first so we bumped up the diet until he finally got the weight on. He was fed twice a day. His eyes got really clear, and grew an amazing coat along with it stopping the IBD symptoms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
In case anyone is interested, here is what Internal Medicine gave me:

Evaluation of Dale’s Boxer diet recipe for Buster Brown

Current recipe (protein containing ingredients are marked with an asterisk)


*Turkey - ground 8 lbs uncooked weight but then cooked – assumed to be about 7% fat

*Potatoes with skin microwaved 5 lbs

On average 1 lb *cauliflower and 1 lb *broccoli – uncooked weight trimmed then cooked

*Red kidney beans – 2 cans – 13oz cans drained and cooked

*Lima beans green – 2 cans – 13oz cans drained and cooked

*Green beans – 2 cans - 13oz cans drained and cooked

*Spinach – 2 cans - 13oz cans drained and cooked

*Tomatoes diced – 1 can - 13oz cans drained and cooked

*Carrots sliced – 1 can - 13oz cans drained and cooked

*Oatmeal instant dry weight 42 oz – then cooked

Canola oil – ¾ cup

*Garlic clove -1 medium to large clove of fresh garlic - we reduced the amount of garlic in the diet because 3-4 cloves is close to or above the recommended safe upper limit for garlic in a dog diet

+ water to cook

Evaluation using values from the USDA database suggests that this mixture provides about 1600 kcal ME daily (1 kcal metabolizable energy = 1 Calorie on a human food label; 1 Mcal ME=1000kcal ME)

As Buster Brown is eating about 1/10th of this amount each day he is eating about 1650 kcal ME (126 kcal ME/kg0.75) daily. The NRC suggests that an average laboratory dog of his age would be consuming slightly more, but requirements vary greatly among individuals and with amount of activity. His current intake corresponds to what an average young adult pet Boxer commonly consumes. The best judge of whether his intake is appropriate is his body condition, which is currently excellent. At 13 months, he should be close to or have reached adult weight. The amount he is fed should be adjusted to maintain his present excellent body condition with a waist visible from the side and from above and easily palpated ribs. Assuming he has reached adult weight, he should remain about 31 kg for the rest of his life. The supplements should be kept the same, but the bulk of his diet is moderate in protein and fat so has enough safety margin to allow for variation in the amounts of food he consumes.

This diet contains about 67 g protein, 34 g fat, and 110 g carbohydrate/Mcal ME so is a moderate protein moderate fat, high carbohydrate diet. As such, it is similar to most maintenance dry diets. However, relative to NRC recommended allowances it appears to be deficient with respect to calcium, the essential fats EPA/DHA found in fish oil, and some trace minerals notably zinc, some B vitamins such as B12, vitamin E, and choline.

The Zestypaws vitamin mineral supplement currently being fed is difficult to assess because it contains many ingredients and the amount of most nutrients is not well documented.

There are several possible ways to supplement the diet to correct for the deficiencies but the simplest are listed below. These supplements should not cause a reaction but if they do then please call and an alternative can be suggested.

1) Cooked chicken liver 1 liver daily or 15 oz uncooked weight when cooked with other ingredients. This is a source of choline and vitamins and should increase the palatability of the diet if needed. Alternatively, half the powder in a choline bitartrate 500 mg capsule can be given daily. It is best to use a choline source without added protein. The capsules are likely made out of gelatin, which is also a protein. Initially add without the capsule and then include the capsule to see whether it causes a reaction. One example of choline bitartrate capsules can be found at Choline | Nature's Way. The same rules apply to other supplements and oral medications and treats. No unknown protein sources or flavoring containing protein. Vegetable protein is potentially a problem just as much as animal protein. Oils, starch and purified sources of vitamins and minerals usually do not contain protein. Chicken liver is probably OK because you are already feeding chicken jerky treats but all sources of protein should be added one at a time.

2) Unflavored calcium carbonate powder 2 level teaspoons daily or 7 level tablespoons when cooked with other ingredients.

3) Table salt iodized 1 level tablespoon added to other ingredients (for 10 days)

4) IVI blend vitamin mineral supplement (IVIblend.com) 1 scoop added to meal each day after cooking.

5) Fish oil. One 1200 mg oil/capsule Fish Oil Derived Omega-3 1200 mg Softgels contains 660 mg EPA and DHA combined, 720 mg omega 3 per capsule. The capsule also contains gelatin so do not include the capsule initially as noted above.

This is a complete and balanced diet for an adult dog according to the recommendations of the NRC when the supplements above are included. Nevertheless, it is important to recheck blood chemistries and blood count and urine specific gravity in 1-3 months and then every 6-12 months to make sure the diet is performing as intended. Careful monitoring is essential. Remember all changes in diet should be introduced slowly over several days! Some diarrhea can occur for a few days after a major change in diet but should resolve in a few days. The intestine can adapt to digestible ingredients (cooked protein and carbohydrate sources) in 4 days but the colonic bacteria can take a month to adapt to a change in fiber (fiber is mostly found in vegetables). More than one day of food can be made at one time and frozen in meal sized quantities for reheating later, however, vitamin supplements and fish oil must be mixed into the food on the day of administration.

Food hypersensitivity

Only assessing the response to a food trial, not blood tests, have proved reliable measures of the protein sources responsible for food hypersensitivity in dogs and cats. It is recommended that any additive is added one at a time with a delay of a few days between additions to determine whether each additive causes any vomiting, diarrhea or itchiness. It is important to recognize also that an environmental allergen instead of a dietary allergen may be responsible for the mild erythema of his ear lobes, itchiness and intestinal upset that occurs when a food item is added. It is important, therefore, to control for other causes of itchiness such as fleas or skin infections, changes in location or season, and also to avoid using flavored medications such as flavored oral heartworm preventatives during a food trial. Possible environmental allergens are pollen, dust, mold, scented candles, air conditioning filters if they are not changed regularly, air fresheners.

New protein sources or a commercial diet, such as Royal Canin Boxer diet, can be added in small amounts to identify whether they cause intestinal upset. As with peanut protein in people, only a small amount is needed to cause a reaction. If the protein or food causing a problem can be identified, then it may be possible to identify a diet containing ingredients which do not cause a reaction. During such trials, however, it is important to recognize that environmental allergens may be responsible for such reactions, especially if they are seasonal. Options The rash and itchiness you described to us is termed urticaria and is usually due to a true allergy like that to an ant bite or a wasp sting. Very, very rarely, urticaria develops when a fish is consumed containing histamine. It is also important to recognize that therapeutic novel protein diets are made specially after the whole production line has been cleaned to avoid contamination with other proteins, whereas other diets which emphasize particular nutrients may not be subject to such strict processing.

Because Buster Brown is not currently having any intestinal problems, it appears that he is not having a reaction to any of the proteins in his current diet. Clinical signs of a hypersensitivity to protein in food usually improve within 2 weeks but complete resolution can take 8 weeks. Buster Brown still has some slight redness of his feet and ears so it may be necessary to feed his current diet for a couple of months to see whether that redness resolve completely.

Potential contamination of commercial proteins with alternate protein sources

Once you have identified the types of protein to which he is sensitive then it is possible to try to find a commercial diet that does not contain those ingredients. Unfortunately, the ingredients included in commercial pet foods can be contaminated with other proteins during handling. Only therapeutic novel protein diets are produced after the extruders and other equipment are cleaned with the necessary to avoid contamination.

Boxer diet (this is mentioned because my other Boxer is eating Royal Canin Boxer formula)

There is currently no evidence that Boxers have different nutrient requirements than other breeds of dog. There is probably no advantage, therefore, for feeding a diet labelled for boxers than for one labelled for other adult dogs. The primary requirement is that foods are ‘complete and balanced’ according to AAFCO recommendations, i.e. they contain all the essential nutrients in adequate amounts. Royal Canin is a reputable company, however, with a name to preserve and make diets which are complete and balanced and go to some lengths to test their ingredients and diets. The ingredient list includes rice, chicken, oats which are already included in Buster Brown’s current diet. It also contains wheat gluten, pork, and beet pulp, which all contain protein and are not in his current diet. If he reacts to the boxer diet then you can test him against each one of these proteins to see whether they cause a reaction.

Amount to feed.

His current food intake suggests that he requires about 1650 calories per day. Treats should not provide more than 10% of his total daily calories (no more than about 165 kcal) unless the label states that the treats are ‘complete and balanced’. The calorie content of all treats and petfoods should be reported on the label. Royal Canin Boxer diet, for example, contains 335 kcal/cup, which suggests that he should be fed almost 5 cups per day without any treats or about 4 and ½ cups with some treats. Note *Chicken jerky treats should only be given if they are cooked. Any calculation either of the calorie content of the diet or the requirement for energy is not precise for any individual dog or nutrient source. The best judge of how much he should be fed, however, is his body condition. Take a photo of him now and feel his ribs and adjust his food intake to keep him looking exactly as he does now. He is likely to need slightly less food when he is neutered and as he ages and his activity declines so weigh him regularly to keep track of whether he is gaining weight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I got a vet formulated diet specifically made for an 83 lb, male, fixed Boxer.
the calculated energy requirement was approximately 1703 kcals per day. He had IBD, and a a biopsy had indicated eosinophillic enteritis.Hypoallergenic diets didn't work long. The diet was fish, potato, and some vegetable oil. We added so many scoops of Balance IT canine per day. This contains no animal product, is food grade, and vegan. We needed low-fat because the IBD set off pancreatitis. We added vegetables, and fruit later. He lost weight at first so we bumped up the diet until he finally got the weight on. He was fed twice a day. His eyes got really clear, and grew an amazing coat along with it stopping the IBD symptoms.
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BrindleBabies
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Discussion Starter · #1 · 30 d ago

My 1 year old Buster has had some ongoing issues with vomiting. He has been to his vet as well as the Emergency Vet on multiple occasions but it is hard to pin point the cause without going through a laborious internal medicine process. I do have an appointment on 9/7/21 with someone at UF Small Animal Hospital to discuss nutrition. I was feeding Royal Canin Puppy. I've had him on the highly digestible prescription formula of same brand. Over time the vet and I have tried no play within 1 hour of meal time, smaller more frequent meals, however even though he'll ok for awhile, the vomitting starts again. Anyhow, 10 days ago I started a homemade diet. I found this recipe, Cooking for Dogs - Dale's Recipe but I feel worried since after all my research I'm not 100% meeting all his nutritional needs. Thus the appt on 9/7. I also give him daily Zesty Paws 8in1 multi vitamins as a supplement. I was reading today that for a puppy, per 1 lb of weight he needs 55 calories. So at 63 lbs, he would need almost 3,500 calories per day. Can this be correct? Seems like alot. When i check the Royal Canin bag, he would getting roughly 2300 kcalories. I was trying add up the calories in the recipe noted, for the whole recipe I calculated around 7000 calories. The first batch i made was roughly 20 baggies at 3 cup per bag. I have been feeding him 2 bags a day, so 6 cups. That equates to about 1600 calories a day. So looks like based on the 55per lb rule, he needs 12 cups per day. Can that be right? Anyone have any experience with this. Sorry to be so naive. He's been doing so good on this diet, has not vomited once. Essentially it is made up of turkey, oatmeal, lima beans, kidney beans, broccoli, green beans, carrots, tomatoes, kale or spinach & Canola oitl. That is in order of amount. Any help would be deeply appreciated since I have almost 3 weeks before my appointment with Dr. Hill in internal medicine at UF. THANK YOU!


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#2 · 29 d ago

Brindle baby, If you resolved the vomiting issue, I would just keep doing what your doing, with some mods to make sure there getting a board spectrum on vitamins that they need.
I would give a treat of some sardines in water rinse first, a few times a week.
Bty I agree with you on the so called Royal Cannin.
Be well

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Discussion Starter · #3 · 22 d ago

Joeponds said:
Brindle baby, If you resolved the vomiting issue, I would just keep doing what your doing, with some mods to make sure there getting a board spectrum on vitamins that they need.
I would give a treat of some sardines in water rinse first, a few times a week.
Bty I agree with you on the so called Royal Cannin.
Be well
Thank you for your reply! I was able to get the dr. at UF to tell me to stick with the calories and diet I'm feeding until the appointment, weigh him and keep a food journal. He actually looks healthier now and has put on a few lbs. His sister does great on Royal Canin. I figure I will ask the Nutrionist what they think I should do with her, maybe just move them both to the homemade diet. Thanks again!


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#4 · 18 d ago

To me that diet is heavily plant based with a lot of the protein coming from legumes instead of actual meat.
Ideally a home cooked diet should not contain more than 25% plant base.

Kari ~ Guardian of Harper, Jetta & Boss

www.kacoboxers.com

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I got a vet formulated diet specifically made for an 83 lb, male, fixed Boxer.
the calculated energy requirement was approximately 1703 kcals per day. He had IBD, and a a biopsy had indicated eosinophillic enteritis.Hypoallergenic diets didn't work long. The diet was fish, potato, and some vegetable oil. We added so many scoops of Balance IT canine per day. This contains no animal product, is food grade, and vegan. We needed low-fat because the IBD set off pancreatitis. We added vegetables, and fruit later. He lost weight at first so we bumped up the diet until he finally got the weight on. He was fed twice a day. His eyes got really clear, and grew an amazing coat along with it stopping the IBD symptoms.
Thank you for letting me know this. I am hoping to be able to transition him to a commercial diet again but it may not be in the cards. I have not heard of the condition you mentioned so I"m going to research that as well. We are on day 2 of adding some commercial food into the homemade food I've been preparing and he has reacted well so far. Our issue has been vomiting mostly but it has been accompanied by diarrhea before as well. They did mention they would normally recommend more calories but since his condition was so good they left as is. I will definitely be keeping any eye on how he looks. I do think that their recommendation of adding a scoop of IVI blend vitamin mineral supplement (IVIblend.com) daily was something anyone making a home diet may benefit from. It is about $72 for 60 scoops so that is 2 months for 1 boxer, not too bad. Good luck with your doggy, must be hard having ITB.
 
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