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Good morning everyone,
My almost 9 month old male boxer hates his crate. I have done everything to make is positive. I feed him in the crate, and give treats and praise. Hes so skittish around it and fights me to go in it. He only willingly goes in for his food but he acts nervous and runs out when i come near. I never let him out when he cries so i dont know why he hasn't got over it yet. He also randomly comes up to me and barks and talks for attention, which i never give. I try to redirect with a toy but that lasts like 30 seconds! Im moving into an apartment in 3 or so months and i cant have him barking like he does. Another issue is they apartments have a 50lb weight limit and dont allow "aggressive breeds" whatever that means. Hes only 40lb at almost 9 months and hasnt been growing a lot since he has imitable bowel disease and he actually lost weight a couple times and i think its stunted his growth. Please tell me the barking is just a phase!!!
 

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He sounds identical to Sugar Rae. At 6 months she also still cries & yells when she's in her crate and can't see me. I've recorded her when I left the house just to see how long the crying lasts, and it's 10 minutes at most and then she calms herself down. Keep putting him in the crate for periods of time when you're home so he doesn't only think he goes in when you leave possibly?

She also barks at us when we are sitting on the couch - pure attention seeking behavior and baiting us to play. I do the same and redirect with a toy buy only after she sits or lays down for me and stays without barking. I've also tried walking away into the basement or bathroom so she thinks "when I bark, she leaves" vs "when I bark, I get her attention"

Interested in seeing what advice other owners have for these behaviors! Keep the training up during these "testing" months and good luck!!
 

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Bad choice of apartment if you ask me :(

At least they allow dogs
 

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Well the good news is you have three months to makes some changes. :)

The bad news ... is I seriously doubt a male Boxer will stay under the 50 lb mark by one year old??? You should find out first if they do weight in's??? If he is well "behaved" you just may be able to skate?? But if he is still out of control ... your gonna be outa there!

You don't really have the luxury of debating the pro's and cons of "various methods of "behavior modifications. Boxer's are a very choice for first time dog owners. They are ... apparently?? High drive dogs if allowed to will ... pretty much run "amok" over "newbies."
So ... that is not about you. :)

The random "running up to you and barking and stuff" well ...it's a "Boxer." I've not had that "issue" but yeah ... that's what they do! IT points to a lack of "Structure" no rules no limits. Your guy is pretty much operating in this mode. :



And so you know ... if you sent your dog to a "competent qualified" Pro for a "Broad and Train" they could fix all this crap in most likely "two weeks " at a cost of $2500 to $4000 dollars. And ... they won't use "treats" they would "correct the dog for inappropriate behavior. And train your dog to ... "Make Better Choices or there will be consequences, for poor choices!!" Pretty much that simple.

So step one .. loose the treats ... feed the dog in the Crate "Only," if he won't go in the Crate ... then he does not eat. Put the food in the Crate and give him 15 minuets, if he does not eat ... take the food away! He skips that meal. I doubt he will hold out for more than three days???

The barking thing?? Well you have a couple of options. The hands free approach is to use a "real" Bark Collar.":

No Bark Collars ... not the "Citronella crap." Use the real thing or don't bother.

Ultimately ... training is the real solution but right now he has a "problem" that can easily lead to a "rehomeing option??" That's not what we want. You do have time ... but yo can only make it happen if "Keep It Real" for the dog. Got more but this is the start. :)
 

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Boxers are very energetic breeds and they need to exercise. Period. If you don't have the time and space, it is really not fair for the dog.
It sounds like he is not getting enough exercise he needs. Are you making him run, chase , fetch daily? If he gets enough exercise, he won't bother you. I found the solution with dog park. An hour in dog park and he is pooped the rest of the day.
Why are you trying to keep him in a create? Is he not housebroken yet? Is he destructive?
Mine hated it as well, and I found the solution of keeping him in the designated area in the house with the help of indoor range collars. Those can be ranged between a foot to 12 feet radius.You can find them in amazon at a reasonable price.
Unless you starve your dog, hope you won't, I highly doubt he won't pass 50lbs. Apartments are a very bad chose when you have a dog with high exercise requirements.
 

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I completely disagree that apartments are a "bad" choice, and slightly rude. I have a two story house, Duke only uses the rooms that we're using boxers are indeed high energy dogs, but doesnt mean they're running a race in the house.. i know a few people who have highly active breeds who live in apartments, and they manage just fine. Excercise is key for all dogs regardless of where you live.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I guess i forgot some details.
To address the weight limit he has IBD. He eats well, and is on medications to control the diarrhea and malobsorption issues but my vet even says hes going to be small for a boxer. Since 11 weeks old he has been in obedience training. He has had behavioral issues from the get go. Hes been dominant/aggressive from the day i got him which led to me taking him to training. The "breeders" i got him from breed their 2 pet boxers and he is the result. His siblings have similar issues regarding health and temperament. It was not my smartest decision but i am now educated and will never make the same mistake again. My next boxer or any kind of dog will be a rescue, or from a reputable breeder. This training we do is not the petsmart positive training. His training is avoidance training. Meaning hes taught with corrections. Hes corrected with "NO!" and a pop of the choker when he does something wrong, and that how hes been taught to lay down, heel, sit, sit when i stop, and stay. I dont give treats or baby him when it comes to training. He passed basic obedience and is now in intermediate training. When it comes to sit,stay, down, and heel hes good. Its when hes allowed to run free that he acts a fool. I walk him every day, play fetch and do my best to tire him. I would never bring him to a dog park. Not because of him , but i dont know what kind of dogs everyone else brings with them and its too much to chance. He is not my first boxer, i grew up from the age of 5 to 18 with a male boxer. Hes crated while im home, as well as when im gone. Currently hes in his crate and has barked the whole time i have been writing this so excuse any typos as i am going crazy from the barking. LOL.
 

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I guess i forgot some details.
To address the weight limit he has IBD. He eats well, and is on medications to control the diarrhea and malobsorption issues but my vet even says hes going to be small for a boxer. Since 11 weeks old he has been in obedience training. He has had behavioral issues from the get go. Hes been dominant/aggressive from the day i got him which led to me taking him to training. The "breeders" i got him from breed their 2 pet boxers and he is the result. His siblings have similar issues regarding health and temperament. It was not my smartest decision but i am now educated and will never make the same mistake again. My next boxer or any kind of dog will be a rescue, or from a reputable breeder. This training we do is not the petsmart positive training. His training is avoidance training. Meaning hes taught with corrections. Hes corrected with "NO!" and a pop of the choker when he does something wrong, and that how hes been taught to lay down, heel, sit, sit when i stop, and stay. I dont give treats or baby him when it comes to training. He passed basic obedience and is now in intermediate training. When it comes to sit,stay, down, and heel hes good. Its when hes allowed to run free that he acts a fool. I walk him every day, play fetch and do my best to tire him. I would never bring him to a dog park. Not because of him , but i dont know what kind of dogs everyone else brings with them and its too much to chance. He is not my first boxer, i grew up from the age of 5 to 18 with a male boxer. Hes crated while im home, as well as when im gone. Currently hes in his crate and has barked the whole time i have been writing this so excuse any typos as i am going crazy from the barking. LOL.
Well this got wild fast??? Speaking for myself the only thing I meant by his weight .. was that a dog like a "Yorkie" is simply never going to be over fifty pounds. :)

I understand the why of your "Boxers" size and it may very well be that he may always be an undersized male??

On the GSD Forum we had a member that had a 35 lbs female GSD!!??? She was quite the thing! So yeah ... "crap happens!" The only thing I meant by the 50lbs thing was simply do they do annual weight in or something like that?? Or do they just say 50 lbs so that they don't get Rotties/GSD/Dobbies/Pitts/Great Danes/English Mastiff etc, etc.

So the nay saying aside ... it sounds like you are an "experienced" owner (I did not know that??) and your simply faced with the "old my other dogs thing???" Time to learn some "new" stuff. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I see what your saying. I'm definitely not trying to sound like a smart ass. I haven't inquired about weight ins and i know all apartments do it different. My sister has a gsd and alaskan malamute and she has no trouble with her apartment management regarding weight or breed. Strangely when my boyfriend called the apartments they seemed like they didn't know what a boxer is. So i hope they didn't look it up and see that males average 60-71 pounds. I could probably get a letter from my vet stating he wont grow to the full weight.
I'm not claiming to be experienced either. I'm 21 years old with my first dog of my own. I've spent more money then i really can and put all my time into him. Training every day, with weekly meetings with the trainer. Constant vet appointments every 3 weeks to check on his health. I can truly say i'm putting my all into him. Im just working against his health issues and behavioral issues.
 

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Ah well I don't know about weight in's and stuff?? IF a dog is otherwise well behaved ... most likely they would not bother??

Training a "Dog Properly" is not about $$$ spent. It's about an "owners, skill" and "Knowledge." I don't know your "trainer" or your dog?? But I do know that effective trainers that deal with dogs ... with as I am want to say "Serious Freaking Issues" don't use choke chains?? (Although maybe KMODT) advocates do??? (Kohler Method of Dog Training) so yeah ... they get a pass from me. :)

At any rate ... you have a reasonable amount of time to make some changes. Yo did not say my dog needs to stop the barking "NOW!" So you may be able to "train" this out of him. :)

At the core is gong to be this.:
http://www.boxerforums.com/training/183298-fearful-anxious-flat-crazy-place-command.html

Sit on the Dog (I just learned of a new way to use it!) And the "Place Command" when dealing with "Behavioral issues" those are your go to "tools." :)

And the other missing elements are Rules/Structure and Limitations. And being able to walk your dog is key to this. A dog does not need yo to exercise but a dog does need to go on a proper structured walk. Also consider (for a time) and make your own adjustments here a "No Free Roaming in the house policy." It's an apartment but ideally "outside is for play inside is to chill. Use your best judgement here. :)

Well the more I try and explain in one shot ... the more difficult I make it seem??? That is not my intent so ... a broad overview and I'll stop. :)

Here you go :
German Shepherd Dog Forums - View Single Post - My 11 month old GS is crazy!

Aww crap ... OK one more thing. I'd lose the distraction thing. I prefer to teach my dogs to "deal with" there job under distractions is to do "nothing" as they were taught "whatever that is ... it's not your concern dog!" Works out fine. :)

That said with the crate, feeding her in the Crate is fine. Ideally you put the food in the Crate and walk away. Let the dog eat in peace. So I have no ideal what the coming out thing is about??? But if she does it again ... then you take the food out and she skips a meal, two or three days of that at the most and she will figure it out. Use your best judgement there.

OK ... I'm done for now ... ask questions. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So after researching the Kohler Method of Dog Training i would say the training we do is a mixture. He was/is taught new things with treats and positive reinforcement. When i know he knows what im asking without a doubt he is corrected when he does it wrong/ or doesnt do it at all. I can say that he is fearful of the correction and becomes agitated the more correction he gets. He shows his fear with aggression. When he acts aggressive he gets a harsh correction because no matter what he cant act that way to me. He used to act that way when told to "down" and he was harshly corrected now he lays down right away. Currently he only acts aggressive with the "finish" command. I am now using happy voices telling him good boy, and being gentle because i dont want him to feel like he has to be aggressive. I think what he needs is tough love with his barking. He does ti to try and get me to play with him, or when hes locked in his crate. I dont know how long he does it since i usually leave and he hears me come back so he starts it back up. When i crate him when im home he could go on for hours with a few breaks. I only let him out when he stops. But its enough to drive me insane even with him on the other side of the house with 2 doors in between us. Is a bark collar my only choice? I think ill be looking into a board and train.
 

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I completely disagree that apartments are a "bad" choice, and slightly rude. I have a two story house, Duke only uses the rooms that we're using boxers are indeed high energy dogs, but doesnt mean they're running a race in the house.. i know a few people who have highly active breeds who live in apartments, and they manage just fine. Excercise is key for all dogs regardless of where you live.
How is pointing out something is not good chose for a breed is slightly rude? If you can't take any criticism, you shouldn't be asking for an advice online. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Plus you need to be specif when you mention an apartment . They usually are next to each other where you share walls with your neighbors ( barking ), you don't have a back yard(exercising). But hey , if you call one of your 55+over florida condos an apartment that's a different story.
 

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So after researching the Kohler Method of Dog Training i would say the training we do is a mixture. He was/is taught new things with treats and positive reinforcement. When i know he knows what im asking without a doubt he is corrected when he does it wrong/ or doesnt do it at all. I can say that he is fearful of the correction and becomes agitated the more correction he gets. He shows his fear with aggression. When he acts aggressive he gets a harsh correction because no matter what he cant act that way to me. He used to act that way when told to "down" and he was harshly corrected now he lays down right away. Currently he only acts aggressive with the "finish" command. I am now using happy voices telling him good boy, and being gentle because i dont want him to feel like he has to be aggressive. I think what he needs is tough love with his barking. He does ti to try and get me to play with him, or when hes locked in his crate. I dont know how long he does it since i usually leave and he hears me come back so he starts it back up. When i crate him when im home he could go on for hours with a few breaks. I only let him out when he stops. But its enough to drive me insane even with him on the other side of the house with 2 doors in between us. Is a bark collar my only choice? I think ill be looking into a board and train.
Kohler "won't" work for you as you don't have the time???

10 to 14 weeks to a fully off leash trained dog. And that would be assuming a very brief learning curve??? Buy the book understand it and get down to business. Most likely he did use a "Choke Chain??" I did not notice it bt yeah time and place. :)

Despite how I may sound ... I'm not really big on "Harsh Corrections." My Sending a dog a "Crystal Clear" message that "this" behavior is not acceptable is the goal. There are lots of "effective" means to accomplish that. My worst case was my Human Aggressive OS WL GSD. I had a "Zero Bite Policy' with him! 116 lbs of WL GSD that did not much care for h ... anyone outside of his pack!

Today he is allowed of leash in public and he is free to engage or not with JQP as he sees fit. I showed him "how I expected him to behave in public" and he got that ... despite the fact that he was "Muzzled" in public for a time ... he has to this day "never" received a single harsh correction for inappropriate behavior towards an individual! :)

It was only after many years of back and forth "online debates." That I finally realized I had done that?? Worked out fine. :)

So not saying the leash pops are not still necessary?? I don't know but you've most likely already made your point?? And now you may be able to move over to "Verbal Markers" for some behaviors a "NO" or "Cesars "Psst" thing??

I have read on the GSD Forum from a K9 Handler how the "Psst" thing is crap??? Is that so ... I have stopped a freaking herder dog that had thus far bitten seven people and a an annoying "Vacuum Cleaner chasing "Min Pin" with "Ptsst!"You gotta be flexible. :)

If "Board and Train" is a viable option for you??? That is of course one way to go. An effective competent board and train can solve all of this "crap" in most likely not more than two weeks?? If you want to go that route and you don't have know where to look ... I'd contact Jeff Gellman or you could PM, BTE on here for "Trainers" local to you. :)

BTE you can PM and Jeff's site is here.:
Solid K9 Training aggressive dog rehab, dog anxiety - Rehabilitation and Family Dog Training

If they can accomplish changes in the two week time frame ... then most likely they would be using an E -Collar?? Not a problem when used correctly but not my thing. :)

So the "barking thing???" OK right now it seems to be a big problem and he kinda sorta has you stumped becasue if he is doing it in the crate ... what can you do??

Well you do have options and you can still correct him in the Crate for inappropriate barking! You just have to be "flexible." A real "Bark Collar" is what the "Pro's recommend for people that work for a living. IE your not on site to correct the dog in person. Most likely if he were at a "Board and Train" they would use a regular "E -Collar" and stop that crap on the spot!

But you do have options E-Collar or Bark Collar free. Option one a "Bonker" ... Sally Scooter will demonstrate. :


It's a towel bond with rubber bands. And you throw it at the dog and hit them in the head shoulders area with it! It's a towel or a sock, you won't hurt your dog and the dog will make the association. You say "No" and if they keep it up you throw the "Bonker" or use a bundle pair of socks.

If he is in the Crate and Barking??? Throw a blanket over the Crate if he barks ... say no and throw the "Bonker at the Crate! Or ... option two and this one never occurred to me. But "Sit on the Dog" see the link ... spend a weekend with the dog tethered to you in the home. His job will be to "Chill" if he is not then, you have the leash pop or "Ptsst" options ... your call there.

Or going back to the blanket over the Crate option, you could throw a rope around the Crate and when you hear him bark?? Don't say a word ... just grab the rope and yank it! Message sent "be quite dog!" But it seems a basket of Bonkers/Socks would be simpler than that??

And ... wireless cameras are relatively inexpensive these days... if this is a serious issue for you and as you say, when you are gone you don't know what he is doing??? It might be time to invest in that setup??
 

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So at this point i think the methods of training that ive been using arent working for my dog. Theyre basically turning him on me and ruining our relationship. I will be doing a board and train for minimum of 2 weeks. I had a consultation with them and they seem awesome. They raw feed and will feed my dog his raw food/medications as long as i provide it. They will also take him home with them since he cant hold his bladder/bowels for 8 hours on the medications hes on. They keep him as long as it takes to teach the list of things. The list includes
-walking/heeling on leash
-sit & stay
-down & stay
-house-breaking
-crate-training
-not jumping on people or furniture
-not biting or nipping
-no excessive barking

The place is called Karma K9 and is located in Jacksonville, FL. They guarantee all the behaviors. They actually know the trainer ive been using and without outright saying it, they know his training methods and dont agree. They've had several people come from him with problems because of the training methods. Including crushed trachea's :( I feel awful for bringing him there and putting us both through this stress.
Let me know what you think about Karma K9. I really think they can help him.

As far as exercise i have access to a fenced in back yard any time i need (boyfriends moms house) just 2 miles down the road. So i think i can keep his exercise needs met in an apartment.
 

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So i just want to follow up on this issue. My problems have been mostly resolved with the board & train program. He doesn't run from me or throw a fit when its time to go in the crate. He still voices his dislike but not to the the extent he did before. Through the training program i learned not to ask something i cant reinforce, such as not asking him to go in the crate unless i can make him. So what i do is keep his prong on him with about a 10 inch tab on it so i can always grab him if i need. i grab the tab and lead him towards the kennel while telling him "kennel" i mark him going in with good and give him treats. When i take him out i dont make a fuss even if hes excited and we go outside to potty then come back and play. I havent crated him longer then 4 hours but hes always laying down when i come home and has no accidents so were making huge progress.
 

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Boxers can be a challenge at that age. If it was me, I would call the breeder and ask if their puppies were exposed to crates, and how they were used. I used to put on classical music (TV channel). What kind of crate are you using? Is it a soft-sided crate, or wire? The soft, canvas ones are nice because you can move them around to different rooms.
 

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So i just want to follow up on this issue. My problems have been mostly resolved with the board & train program. He doesn't run from me or throw a fit when its time to go in the crate. He still voices his dislike but not to the the extent he did before. Through the training program i learned not to ask something i cant reinforce, such as not asking him to go in the crate unless i can make him. So what i do is keep his prong on him with about a 10 inch tab on it so i can always grab him if i need. i grab the tab and lead him towards the kennel while telling him "kennel" i mark him going in with good and give him treats. When i take him out i dont make a fuss even if hes excited and we go outside to potty then come back and play. I havent crated him longer then 4 hours but hes always laying down when i come home and has no accidents so were making huge progress.
Sorry I lost track of thread ... my bad.

It does sound like you've made a lot of improvements but still ... not good enough. Frankly I would "think" that after a "Board and Train" the dog would "Kennel" up on his own???

The 10 inch tab is a good idea variation on a drag leash (cept a drag leash has no handle to get caught up on furniture) a "prong" on a dog in a Crate however is not really a good idea ... generally not advised.

The remaining "Crate" issue and the continuing protest ... try feeding the dog in the crate. Don't force him in give him a choice. Leave the food for 15 minutes, if he won't go in he does not eat, take the food away. And try again at the next meal.

Plan a time where it does not matter if he gets in the Crate or not. Skip Friday evenings meal and start on the weekend perhaps??
 

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I never leave the prong on him, i always take it off once hes in. I too thought he would be perfect and go in the kennel with not problems, but i suppose its just gonna be a process. Compared to the way he was before im happy with the progress. The place command they taught has been amazing, If hes too rambunctious i send him there and in a few minutes he fast asleep. I think feeding him in there would be a great idea. I already make him wait in there while i prepare his food, so it think feeding him in there would be even better. Do you suggest i shut the door while he eats? he always runs out if i make any move towards him when he goes in there during the day to sniff around.
 

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I never leave the prong on him, i always take it off once hes in.
Ok that's great ... you never know what people do. :)

I too thought he would be perfect and go in the kennel with not problems, but i suppose its just gonna be a process. Compared to the way he was before im happy with the progress.
Well I have to say, I'm a bit surprised about the kennel bit also???

Even still ... he does sound much, much better now! The Board and Train was a good call for this dog on your part. Was it a Two Week Board and Train did they train with an E-Collar??

The place command they taught has been amazing, If hes too rambunctious i send him there and in a few minutes he fast asleep.
So they did train "Place!!" LOL I'm impressed!

Maybe they said ... "you know the dog is "civilized" he is no longer a threat, yeah he's still got some quirks ... but good enough! Freaking Boxers ... we don't have this kinda time!:chair:

But if he knows "Place" there's your "key" typically how long often on any given day do you use "Place???"

I think feeding him in there would be a great idea. I already make him wait in there while i prepare his food, so it think feeding him in there would be even better. Do you suggest i shut the door while he eats? he always runs out if i make any move towards him when he goes in there during the day to sniff around.
Once he goes in the "kennel" he should not come out until told to do so. If he tries ... you slam the door in his face until he waits for permission to come out. That's how it should work. In and out on Command.

He should know that but clearly he does not?? If he happens to go in because the Crate dog is open and when you try to close it on him ... you've now made the "Crate" a game! Pretty sure you have "Zero" chance of getting to the door before he can "escape." "Catch me if you can kinda thing."

So for him "right now" the door needs to be kept closed, if he is not being "Crated." Feeding him in the Crate is going to be the way to go and apparently you will need to close the door while he eats.

Gonna be your call ... you do have to feed him in the Crate and it sounds like you will need to close the door while he eats. Then you will have your door slamming in the face opportunity to make him wait for release.

So really the call (once you start the feed in the crate thing) is ... he goes in to eat but if I try to close the door ... he'll spin to bolt out without eating???

I'd say let him, and take the food up right then so ... it's feed in the crate and ... close the door. He eats "now" if he won't, he does not eat ... no fifteen minute wait. No "fighting with him" over this, it's his choice to eat now or not.

When he cares more about eating then the door closing, then it's time for the close the gate till he "waits" to be released thing.

This link is buried in the link I posted but three clips from various trainer, those should help you better understand the process.:

German Shepherd Dog Forums - View Single Post - Returning a pup back to a breeder
 
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