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Discussion Starter #1
Okay... I was doing research on these "Rare" black boxers... lol and I think I have this figured out... Newcastle, help me out if I'm wrong!!

They aren't genetically black... They're reverse brindle with very minimal fawn or their fawn is masked out by the brindling? Soooo...genetically they are brindle and BYB's are trying to pass them off as black be/c they just want the $$$?? I think I'm right... I got it from here:

http://forum.kijiji.ca/post-6817999.html

ALL the way to the bottom!     :D
 

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Yes, I think you've got it!  :wink:

The Boxer standard says:-

Color
The colors are fawn and brindle. Fawn shades vary from light tan to mahogany. The brindle ranges from sparse but clearly defined black stripes on a fawn background to such a heavy concentration of black striping that the essential fawn background color barely, although clearly, shows through (which may create the appearance of reverse brindling)


It is genetically impossible to have a black boxer as the Boxer does not carry the gene for solid black coat color. If you do see a true black boxer, chances are they have bred the dog either with a black lab or great dane for instance to get the black gene in their bloodlines.
 

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correct...they are called reverse brindles. I've actually seen some that appear to be black. Only you can see very light brindling behind the ear. They are beautiful. I love the really dark ones. Ah...who am I kidding? I'd love them if they were purple!  :p
 

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Discussion Starter #5
lol okay.. Just wanted to make sure.. I was at the petstore today and saw a "black" boxer.. $3000!!!  8O  So I immediately came home and started searching! Half tempted to go back and tell them he isn't black!  :twisted:
 

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Flutterby\";p=\"12054 said:
How can they be mixed with anything if they're AKC?
They may have been bred down the line with a black dog, and then two boxers were mated, so they are AKC! Funny how that works!? That is how they can get the black gene in them, and sell these "rare" black boxers.  You know you can register and get papers for a snake? It really doesn't mean too much anymore..
 

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$3000 Holy cow!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
tootsie\";p=\"12057 said:
[quote="Flutterby\";p=\"12054":26o1bki5]How can they be mixed with anything if they're AKC?
They may have been bred down the line with a black dog, and then two boxers were mated, so they are AKC! Funny how that works!? That is how they can get the black gene in them, and sell these "rare" black boxers.
 

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I think out of all the kennel clubs the AKC is the best one, but I think people still get around their guidelines. I really don't know too much about them. I've never personally dealt with them. Probably never will, because I think I'll always go the rescue route.
 

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yep ive actually seen the sealed brindles prices have dropped recently.you can find some for 500 or so but i dont know if theyve had testing done or not..
 

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Diesel was very very dark when we first got him, but he's lightened up a bit, and now he's not nearly so dark.

although he's got a straight line down his belly, which divides the dark and light. lol it's so strange, like someone didn't stitch him together the right way.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'd love to have a dark one like that..

Actually just found someone who breeds them around me. She doesn't advertise them as Black and she said she refuses too.. Charges same price as her brindles. She has 12 boxers! Guess I'll be making a trip to heaven!  :lol:
 

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They aren't genetically black... They're reverse brindle with very minimal fawn or their fawn is masked out by the brindling?
Very little fawn would be a reverse brindle; no fawn at all (especially at adulthood) would most likely be a mixed breed.  I know of several reverse-to-reverse breeding, and a couple of breeders who do such for generations, and they have yet to produce a puppy that did not have any fawn on it at adulthood.  If it were to happen, that dog would be disqualified per the breed standard and so should not be bred from.  Other breeds which have brindles and get very dark (what we call reverse) brindles do not end up with blacks from brindles, either.  And let's remember that it's been about 85 years since blacks we eliminated from the breed; since it's a dominant gene, it can't have been carried forward, hidden, all this time.  The only explanation is that, as happened 100+ years ago, another breed was pulled into the mix to give the black coloring (back then it was a Schnauzer).

The term "seal brindle" is used by some breeders, mostly in Canada, to refer to a reverse brindle.  Less-responsible breeders have twisted the term into "sealed brindle" to describe black dogs - but if there is no visible striping, you really can't call the dog a brindle.

Soooo...genetically they are brindle and BYB's are trying to pass them off as black be/c they just want the $$$??
Sometimes; more often the dogs are really black, they just aren't really Boxers.  I suspect oftentimes the breeders don't even realize there's another breed involved, and generally don't know or care about basic Boxer coat color genetics.

I thought AKC was on the up and up...
AKC is, but they rely on the integrity of their breeders - unfortunately, not all  breeders have integrity.  Sometimes, as I mentioned, a breeder may not even realize there is another breed involved; sometimes the other breed is a few generations back, and sometimes it's a case of a multiple-sired litter, where some other dog got to a bitch in season and contributed the black coat color gene.  (Of course, you'd think these breeders would get a clue when they found out there is no way to register a Boxer as "black", but apparently they don't really care about that....)
 

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Yeah i seen people say that they have rare black boxers but i looked them up and yeah they are reverse brindle no matter how black they are. But i have seen one on here that is strait black, which if i had one that color i would call them black too but i would know the genetics and the stuff that goes with it and understand it is reverse brindle, if that makes any sense to anyone. its just easier to say they are black.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I don't see why they wouldn't want black boxers? Whats wrong with blacks, fawns, and brindles? Is there a specific reason? Just curious on history..
 

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Well, for one thing, they were the result of a Schnauzer-Bulldog cross, not really part of the early Boxer lines at all.  And according to Frau Stockmann, apparently their breeder was a complete jerk and ticked off everyone in the Munich Boxer Club, and so the Club decided they didn't want his black dogs to do any winning. (She was upset about this, as she very much liked the blacks and bred a few of them herself, but in the end she gave them up because of the Club's position.)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Wow.. thats crazy... So bulldogs crossed with schnauzers give you a boxer look?! Thats different... A schnauzer of all dogs..
 
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