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Discussion Starter #1
National Geographic Channel

ON NOW... if anyone is interested on what he's going to do about the "bad" behavior... I know some people like him and some don't but I saw the boxer so I thought I'd let everyone know.
 

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Okay... so I don't know if anyone else saw but this family almost put their boxer TO SLEEP!! Because it was very aggressive towards strangers!??? They didn't even try to get a trainer or anything. Not saying I'm for everything Cesar Millan does but I'm VERY glad he showed them that was NOT the right answer.
 

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I have that show set to tivo, he's an odd guy, but his methods work.


honestly, if you know anyone in real life, who would act out how a dog acts, by panting, and wiggling his butt, would you think he was sane? lol
 

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I wish I had seen that...Altho I don't totally agree with everything he does, he makes valid pints about a lot of things. I guess what always got to me, is I wish I could see sometimes what happens when the camera is off! When I was re-teaching Samson how to walk on lead, I used some of his ideas & they worked great. Totally turned it around in a week...

How awful, they were going to put that baby to sleep? OMG.....Just goes to show you that some people really don't need ot be having dogs if they aren't going to take the time to learn....Thank goodness Cesar was able to help

One thing I noticed when I used to watch his show all the time, the trend on what dogs he is called in to correct....50% small dogs, 50% labs, Rotties & Pitts pretty much...I had never seen a boxer on there until this......
 

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Yeah the only reason the woman cancelled the appt was because her son grew up with him and it was really tearing him apart (I think he was 5 or 6 yrs old). I mean they even thought about taking him to a phsyciatrist after they'd put the dog to sleep. THEIR VET... told them that the aggression towards other people and dogs and children would ONLY get worse and then he'd TURN on their children. So I can kind of understand why they would consider it BUT there is a such thing as a SECOND OPINION... vets are normally great at medical issues not always personality issues. I just can't believe they were going to put that 6 yr old boxer baby to sleep. I mean he was just resting his head on Cesar and nuzzling him... SOOO SWEET!!
 

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Ugh! I missed it.... Anyone know what the boxer's name was so I can tape the right one?  I found two shows that were on last night first show was Eppie, Snoopy & Lady... 2 episode was Duke, Lulu & Sparky. Anyone know which one it would be?  :)
 

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There were four dogs on the first one... the two that were on last night... it was the first one. The second one after it was Pasha, Cosmo and Contessa (I recorded that one cuz' I was headed to bed). Honestly can't think of the dogs name... OHHHHH his name was Coach!!!
 

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I saw this episode a while ago... I'm glad Ceasar stepped in... I like his methods as well, but after the dog strangling itself, I've been kinda hesitant to do anything without trainer guidance..
 

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Flutterby\";p=\"12036 said:
I saw this episode a while ago... I'm glad Ceasar stepped in... I like his methods as well, but after the dog strangling itself, I've been kinda hesitant to do anything without trainer guidance..
Are you talking about that incident where one of his hired employees almost killed a dog while he wasn't on the premises?

If so Cesar  fired the uncaring and lazy employee who was entrusted to take care of this Labrador but instead let the dog tire and almost killed the guy.

I've seen this episode in the past and couldn't believe ( Still don't ) That these people wanted to put their boxer down because of aggression issues. Yeah they threw out the " Maybe one day he'll hurt one of our kids" but there were no signs of aggression towards the children. These people where lazy and incompetent Boxer owners who substituted their tiny backyard for mentally challenging exercise. Stupid.

I love the show but when Cesar sits the owners down in the beginning you know what's going to happen. My dog chews this, barks at this and bites these people....No I don't walk my dog.. I let him run all over me....When My dog demands something I'm at his beckon call.....etc.  95% of the time it's always the dog owner. It's just those people have brass ones for admitting it on national television.




Cesar has really good techniques and puts them into terms where we all can understand. Because of him I pay much more attention to what my guys are trying to tell me.

I understand the pack mentality much better and prefer this method superior to any others. I don't have to have a pocket full of treats, clickers or whistles on hand or any other training tools. What I say goes, exercise helps rid built up energy and his reward is food and play time. My dogs have been more stable ever since.

It's my own fault as well as others who can't defeat unwanted behavior. I would love to take my dog on a 3-5 mile or 30 min jog every morning but it just ain't happening. I admit I sometimes get lazy and only go 3-5 miles two at the most three times a week. When it should be everyday.

Cesar Millan has never ever hurt a dog out of aggression and never gives up on any situation. Presa Carnario's, Pit bulls, Rotti's, Mastiff's you name it he'll take em in and work'em what ever their level of aggression is.


** I also forgot to mention there is another episode with a Boxer. There is a lady who hires cesar to look for another Boxer mate for this lady's Boxer. Cesar goes to Los Angeles Boxer Rescue To find a mate
 

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Malakas - that was quite the rant there, I could almost feel the emotion!  :)  But I agree with you, well most of it (I did the clicker training in puppy class and still try to do as much positive reinforcement as I can with my 8 month old).  However, I have no problem raising my voice to get her attention, especially when she's outside playing with the neighbors dogs and starting to run towards someone who just came out outside 5 houses down.  I don't think there is any question who the boss is, which to me, is important.

I think I've seen all the DW shows (I rented the DVD's too).  I like a lot of what he does, especially with "red zone" dogs, but not all his methods are for me.  I don't feel the need to walk out the door first every single time, and I'm not worried about Lola trying to become a leader over me if she goes out the door first.  Hell half the time I just open the door and let her run out (i.e. I don't go outside at all).  What I find more important is that she listens to me, and I have trained Lola to sit inside with the door open as I walk around the front yard until I give the "come" command.  I also don't feel the need to walk Lola exactly like he says you need to walk a dog.  I love the retractable leash and I let Lola walk in front of me, run around sniffing whatever she wants, etc...  The only rule I have on the dog walks is no pulling - I used the "be a tree" method and rarely have to reinforce that anymore, although I do it immediately if she pulls.

P.S.  that boxer episode is a good one and a far to common example of a clueless vet telling someone to put their dog to sleep.
 

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Are you talking about that incident where one of his hired employees almost killed a dog while he wasn't on the premises?
Oh, I thought she was talking about the dog he 'strung up' on one of his shows.  (Apparently he's done that a couple of times, but I only saw it once.)

Cesar certainly has hurt dogs on his show (and who knows what he's done when the cameras weren't rolling) - not necessarily out of aggression, but out of a misguided need to "dominate" them - both physically and, far more often, mentally.  

Funny this came up now, since I've just read several articles from some of the country's best-known certified behaviorists and trainers who feel, as Dr. Nicholas Dodman of Tufts University puts it, that Cesar "has set dog training back 20 years".  His methods are nothing new; they are the same old force, compulsion, "dominance" methods that were used almost exclusively in the past, before people understood the science of learning and behavior, and realized that what they thought they were seeing in wolf packs was not what was actually happening.  

This article gives an interesting point of view on the situation, as it was written by someone who used to train as Cesar does, and has now moved on to science-based techniques:
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1249

(For the record, I don't have to have a pocket full of treats, clickers, whistles, or other training tools, either - they make teaching new things go faster, but are not an absolute requirement.  Neither do I need a special training collar, or six hours a day to walk my dog. ;) )
 

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For basic training, one wouldn't need to use much, if any, of Cesar's methods (although I have seen him use positive reinforcement on his show).  As for "training" a dog that has been isolated in the back yard for years, wants to actually kill a random dog that it sees, and has been told it should be put down by professional behaviorists and/or vets, I dunno....
 

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I'm glad to hear Cesar has used positive reinforcement; I've never seen it, but then again I can't stomach the show for very long.

Aggressive tactics, however, are the last thing you want to use with an aggressive dog; aggression begets aggression (and teaches the dog that humans are untrustworthy, and the presence of another dog is something that will cause discomfort/pain).  There are numerous behaviorists who have rehabilitated aggressive dogs using science rather than force. :)
 

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Newcastle\";p=\"12192 said:
This article gives an interesting point of view on the situation, as it was written by someone who used to train as Cesar does, and has now moved on to science-based techniques:
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1249

(For the record, I don't have to have a pocket full of treats, clickers, whistles, or other training tools, either - they make teaching new things go faster, but are not an absolute requirement.  Neither do I need a special training collar, or six hours a day to walk my dog. ;) )
Hey that's your honest opinion. A good one too. Good Article....I don't believe it but good article. Punctuation and English was superb.  :lol:

Proof is in the pudding. Just like Nexu states Cesar Millans techniques are not needed for your basic commands. Most dogs will do them without the need of dominance. It's just rules, boundaries and limitations  :wink:   that he tries to teach.

It's a battle everyday whether you like it or not when dealing with dogs. If you let them they will walk all over you. Barking at people, aggression towards another dog, jumping on the fence/door, biting, digging, chewing on your sofa, whining in the crate, leading on walks or going potty on your floor. All of these problems can be dealt with through many effective methods.

Through Cesar Millan's methods I've have great success dealing with these problems. It's common sense to me it's what works.

With kids some people spare the rod some don't. Some people include their spouse into the family decision making process some don't. Some managers........you get the point.

Wait one minute!......this sounds like a  political debate...........hmmmmmm.  :(

Oh well.  What the H...E... double hockey sticks does Cesar Millan know? He doesn't have a string of PhD's to back himself up. Therefore he's a big dummy who puts Dog Training back 20 years.  :wink:

Anyway when it comes to teaching sit, stay, laydown, shake and roll over. Treats and praise are my prefered method.
 

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As a trainer and canine behavioralist/consultant, I DO NOT use Ceasar Millan's method's to deal with problem behaviors...These behaviors usually come from a lack of trust and leadership withing the "pack".. I use positive reinforcement to re-establish trust and leadership in the relationship.

If you use his methods and they work...that's great for you...but when I help people correct thier dogs' "issues" I make it a point to be gentle  and carry myself with authority and show the dog it can trust me to get the dog done.

My humble opinion and working method...

{For the record...I also don't carry a pocket full of treats, clickers, whistles, or other training tools.  As Newcastle said...they do make training go faster...but for a Boxer....you can always carry around an idea for a game or fun thing to do that will make training go faster and be VERY fun for the dog...I also don't need a special collar (i.e.: G.L.) or 6 hours to walk my dog.....}

Liz and Lilly
 

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Just like Nexu states Cesar Millans techniques are not needed for your basic commands.
Well, no, you wouldn't use his techniques for any commands.  Cesar doesn't train dogs, he doesn't teach people how to train dogs.  He fully and freely admits that.  

I think his basic philosophy is sound - dogs are dogs, not little people in fur coats; the person is the one who makes the rules and enforces them; you need to be a confident leader if you want your dog to trust you.  It's the practice where he seems to fall short, ignoring much of what he himself says and relying on outdated techniques and misguided wolf-pack theories to coerce the dog into "calm submission".

It's a battle everyday whether you like it or not when dealing with dogs.
Well, that's your honest opinion, but I am certainly glad that I don't share it. :)  Why even have dogs if you're going to wage war with them every day?  I'd far rather have a relationship built on respect and trust, myself.

(Oh, and incidentally - no one has questioned Cesar's intelligence or called him a "dummy" except you.  It is a fact that he is re-popularizing an ideology that was common 20+ years ago and had been falling out of favor in light of information on learning and pack behavior; that fact has nothing to do with Cesar's or anyone else's intelligence.)
 

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ALRIGHT Newcastle!!!!!  No point in having a dog if life is going to be a fight everyday!!!!  Excellent point!!!  

I train rescue dogs with "issues"...they know the sound of my car when I pull up...they get excited and bark (they know this is unacceptable to me) when I get out and as soon as I go into the kennels there is absolute silence....  They all perform a command for a treat as I pass each kennel... they are very happy to see me... I will work between 8-12 dogs everytime I work my rescues (3-5 times a week) and I do it FREE!!! because I am passionate about having happy healthy well behaved canine companions in our society....

Some are easier than others.... some are harder....I don't fight with any of them...If i'm using a technique that isn't working then we move on to a different technique...

Enough of my ranting for now...

Liz adn Lilly
 

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Newcastle\";p=\"12217 said:
It's a battle everyday whether you like it or not when dealing with dogs.
Well, that's your honest opinion, but I am certainly glad that I don't share it. :)  Why even have dogs if you're going to wage war with them every day?  I'd far rather have a relationship built on respect and trust, myself.

(Oh, and incidentally - no one has questioned Cesar's intelligence or called him a "dummy" except you.  It is a fact that he is re-popularizing an ideology that was common 20+ years ago and had been falling out of favor in light of information on learning and pack behavior; that fact has nothing to do with Cesar's or anyone else's intelligence.)


If your imagination takes it as far as " waging war with a dog " then let me tell you that you highly misinformed and you took a simple phrase way out of context.

I'm afraid to explain it to you knowing that you might take another phrase, analogy, idiom or text parallel way out of context again.

I don't take it as a burden nor do I think I have to defend myself when dealing with an animal. Everything in life puts you to the test. Puppies put your authority to the test. They are in a learning phase. Once they know all the rules, boundaries and limitations they're good. Then on it's respect and trust. A lot of people mess up in the puppy phase and have a problem later on they don't understand what happen and Cesar Millan gets rich.

Proof is in the pudding. ( Means that the results speak for themselves)

Battle is such a macho, prehistoric, Neanderthal word to use huh..?

Also on Cesar's intelligence. Just like clockwork ( means for an occurrence to happen yet again) you took it out of context. You failed to read the sarcasm.
 

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Let's settle down!!!

Malakas07...-- Your wording wasn't great and even I took slight offense to it.  Next time try to explain what you mean or be more clear in the first place before firing off accusations.

If you don't feel the need to defend yourself when "dealing" with an animal, then don't.  All of us are different and use different methods.  No one is right.  No one is wrong.

Let's all of us agree to disagree and leave it at that.

And with the point about Ceasar's intelligence...It's really hard to read sarcasm in a POST...  how's that for sarcasm...Lol!!!  That was a joke...I wanted to be clear about that, so no one fires off accusations at me...

Liz and Lilly
 
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