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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,

As my last Boxer was a fawn it was very important to me that my new pup be very different looking so I was only interested in a plain brindle and I only wanted a male. After a few months of research I settled on a local breeder and my "soon to be" new puppy was born 3 weeks ago.

When I first contacted the breeder I told her I wanted a pet but that I would be doing Obedience trials, nose work and perhaps even Shutzhund if he had the right drive.

He was the only male in the litter and when he was born she asked me if I intended to have him neutered. I told her that I would like to keep him intact at least until he was fully grown (18-24 months) as that was what my vet had recommended was the healthiest way to go. I told her that although I have no experience with Confirmation or breeding that I would be open to the idea of keeping him intact if she thought that he had what it takes to do well as a show/stud dog. This made her very happy as his sire is her best male and she really would like to keep the line going if possible. We agreed to wait, watch and see how he develops and that I would join her with one of his sisters to learn confirmation handling.

She just sent me the contract and told me that we could discuss it and make amendments if needed.

So, as I am totally new to this I'm reaching out to you experienced breeders to help me with the contract details.
The bulk of it relates to the general care of the dog which I'm use to and have no problems with at all, it's the part dedicated to co-ownership that I'm asking about here.

Show / Breeding Puppy Agreement:

It is agreed that the buyer purchase this puppy for the PET price of $2000.00 plus 5% GST.
Registration papers will be provided to purchaser on a co-own contract OR on a non breeding contract.
The buyer agrees to allow the breeder to complete 1) cardiac echo done by board certified cardiologist at age 18 months. 2) hip and back xrays sent to OFA for grading after 24months 3) DNA testing for DM (most of our pups are negative by parentage- please ask) 4) recent holter testing for ARVC

Once above health testing is successfully, completed the dog can be used for breeding.
It is agreed that all breeding bitches/ dogs be kept on a co-own contract such that the seller remains actively involved with how this animal is proliferated.

DOGS:
In accordance with the coownership, any plans to breed this dog to local bitches must be discussed with the seller.
Any bitch wanting to breed to this dog MUST HAVE all relevant health testing done as required above.
A copy of the bitch pedigree and pictures of the bitch must accompany application to breed.
The bitch must also have a recent negative brucellosis test prior to breeding. .

It is agreed that ALL puppies produced by local bitch will be sold on a pet or NON breeding contract unless kept directly in local bitch owners home.

It is agreed that the seller may be granted access to a male dog for any future breedings at no cost to the seller.

So my questions are; is this a standard normal contract ? what amendments would you suggest ?
 

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It looks like a pretty much standard contract looks like you would be agreeing that the breeder would be the co owner of the dog, I would wonder about the part that says you get nothing monetarily for any puppies your dog sires and she sells that seems a little odd to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It looks like a pretty much standard contract looks like you would be agreeing that the breeder would be the co owner of the dog, I would wonder about the part that says you get nothing monetarily for any puppies your dog sires and she sells that seems a little odd to me.
Yes that part is what I was wondering about. From what I've seen looking online generally the Sire usually earns at least the value of a puppy.

I was thinking about discussing with my breeder the idea of letting her have free use of my dog for stud once only. This would be because she would have covered the costs for all the health testing and the first litter would establish him as an effective stud dog. For any litters after that I would expect the value of a puppy minus costs (ie: tail docking, worming, first shots, food, etc)

As I said I'm totally new to all this and I'm definitely not looking at this as a way of making money but the way I see it I'll be spending lots of time and $$ on classes and dog shows so I think I should get something out of it.

Does that sound reasonable ?
 

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It does I am not a breeder so maybe one of the breeders on this site may respond and say whether this is standard or not the way I understand it is its usually the cost of a puppy that's they way its usually done, but her be a co owner that may change that dynamic probably you will have to sit down and work this out, she is covering all the testing that going to be done on your dog but you will be feeding and providing all the vet care and training for the stud dog so this should be something you two can work out. There is nothing cheap about caring for a dog correctly.
 

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Health testing is EXPENSIVE. What I see in this contract is essentially the breeder is retaining breeding rights. In that case no, the pet home does not get compensated, can not neuter the dog without the breeders permission and must have approval of the breeder for any outside stud fees. The breeder covers the expenses of the health testing.

Now if you wanted breeding rights then prepare to pay 3 times the amount for the puppy :)

I think it’s great that you want to work the dog, but I wouldn’t waste your time doing conformation. First off, Europeans don’t do well in the ring. Secondly, plain black masked dogs are even harder to show. Your breeder is well aware of this.

I don’t think most people understand the amount of money that is invested in a blood line. Your breeder has invested tens of thousands of dollars. Importing parents/grandparents even , doing health testing on all dogs. They are then offering to also pay for all necessary health testing for your dog at the suitable age. That cost alone is around $3000. So no, a $2000 pet price doesn’t even come close to covering things. A single stud fee doesn’t come close. These are her lines and they are invaluable.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hey Kari, thanks for that. I had no idea just how much the health testing cost were.

Since I'm new to even the idea of raising a potential stud dog I have just been looking around the internet and of course posting this thread. Some of the online info I saw did suggest that most sires are compensated = to the cost of a puppy but they didn't mention anything about the increased cost to initially acquire the stud dog in the first place so thank you for that little bit of info as it makes perfect sense.

As I said I'm not looking to try and earn any kind of income here, I was just excited by the idea that she expects my dog could be of that quality.

As for confirmation thanks again for that too, I was just under the impression that most people really want to see that "ch" title in order to breed. When I got my Doberman back in 2002 my breeder kept telling me how much he hated the show ring, that it was full of drama and politics but he would struggle through it to earn that coveted "ch" title for his breeding dogs. Perhaps I'll just stick to the obedience trials that I'm quite familiar with and try out nose work and maybe even Shutzhund.

I can understand why the breeder is interested in maintaining the blood line, the sire is what attracted me to this breeder in the first place but she is keeping one of the females for herself so perhaps when I discuss it with her I'll just stick to keeping him as a pet like I originally intended.

Thanks very much for the info
 

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Getting working titles IMO is far better than any conformation title. Others who are interested in that will seek out studs who show and have proven working ability :)
 
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