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Discussion Starter #1
My family has the opportunity to receive a 2 1/2 year old female from a local reputable breeder. Here's how it would work:

We would take her in September and return her for 5 days next spring or summer to get bred. We would then get her back for roughly 7 weeks. She would then go back to the breeder for 9 weeks for the puppies birth and weaning. After that, she's all ours.

We would be responsible for normal day to day costs and the breeder would handle all the breeding related costs. The breeder will also pay to have her spayed before returning her to us. The co-ownership contract would end at this time. There will be no "adoption/foster" fee.

Now, she has been bred twice before. The first litter was 5 puppies and she is due any day now with her second litter. Only 2 puppies this time.

Does anyone see any issues with this kind of relationship? Is it common? The breeder has sent me some key points of the contract and I don't have an issue with any of them. This is new to me, so I would be interested in people's thoughts on them, especially from the reputable breeders on here.

Thank-you!
 

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This is a standard fostering agreement. I would want to request to see where she will be housed and where the puppies will be raised while she is in the breeders care for those 2 months. Look at the condition of their other dogs as well.

You need to be comfortable with the agreement.
 

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I agree with Kari, however my thoughts are - how reputable are they if they are just churning out puppies? It sounds like they are breeding her every cycle. 3 litters in 3 yrs? I'm not sure I would agree to that - but as Kari stated - make sure you thoroughly investigate this breeder. How clean they are, how the other dogs look and act, etc. also if I was doing this- and agree to take part- I would feel like I was partly responsible for her having the puppies- even though that would be out of your hands. I would want all health tests confirmed and well documented. I would want to know what the breeder feeds their dogs, because I think that says a lot about an owner, I would want homework done backwards and forwards on this person before you agree they are "reputable" or worth doing this. There is a lot that could go on behind closed doors and when she is away from you that I would be very nervous about


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Also, I was thinking - what's the plus side to her having more litters? It's a GREAT thing she has small (hopefully) non difficult litters, but on the flip side of that - what is the advantage - to the breeder to keep breeding her? If she isn't having very many puppies than why breed her at all? I just don't understand why she has to be bred again, why you can't just adopt her, but that's why I'm not a breeder :) I would be leery of this until you find out all info.


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Where are you located? You can PM me if you want. I got into a very similar relationship and ignored some of the warning signs. Needless to say It didn't work out she appeared to be reputable but in my opinion she really wasn't. Feel free to PM me.


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Discussion Starter #7
Thank-you for the replies. I still have to get some more information from her, but she's been able to satisfactorily answer everything I've thrown at her so far. We will be going to her place for a visit once the nursing is complete.

I should come clean and mention that this is not a Boxer breeder. She breeds Olde English Bulldogges and brought Salina in from a breeder in Texas that is known to her. She is registered with the IOEBA since Olde English Bulldogges cannot be registered with CKC or AKC. We currently have a 9 month old Boxer female but she is very sick with liver disease. We made a mistake and didn't do our research and got her from a backyard breeder. We love her and the breed, but this opportunity came along, so we're looking at our options.

HerculesCasey...I'll send you a PM. Thank-you.

Here's a picture of Salina...
 

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I missed the part where you said this is her 3rd litter at 2.5 yrs old. I'm not sure what health testing has been done on her at such a young age.

Large breed dogs are rarely bred before 3 yrs of age. Their bodies haven't matured enough to safely carry a litter which explains why she has had such small litter sizes.

Con-artists are good at talking the talk. If something is to good to be true, chances are there is a reason for it.

I wouldn't walk away...I'd run.
 

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This is her second litter. Her third and final litter would be next summer at 3 1/2 years of age.
She shouldn't have even had her first litter until she was 3 years old, so having 3 litters by the time she is 3 1/2 is a big red flag.
 

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If you're asked to sign a co-own agreement you should be able to get all past records from the breeder's veterinarian. If they've used the same vet over time you can get tons of information. Vets know what healthy puppies look like, and if breeders are shady. If you can, I'd make an appointment to talk to the vet clinic in person.
 

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Looks like you've done quite a bit of research.
In researching myself, so far the only health testing I see recommended for this breed are the hips ? And I also see a lot of DNA testing for color.

I would be concerned about bringing another female into your home as with both the boxer and bull dog - female / female do not always get along.

:)
 

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I would be concerned about bringing another female into your home as with both the boxer and bull dog - female / female do not always get along.

:)
Oh??? I have been lurking because this is all o to me but a Female Bull Dog and a Female Boxer!!

That would not be a good situation at all! The term "experienced" households only comes to mind!

Boxers and Buddies rescue policy is no other female dogs in the household! And a Bull Dog at that?? Wow!!
 

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That is possible but would be a huge red flag itself. That would mean that she was bred one cycle right after the other :(

I thought back to back cycles were better/easier on them... Like I said I dot know anything about breeding. I thought I read before where Kari mentioned about it being better to have back to back cycles.


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Hi ChuckNorris,

My two cents worth.

There are multiple issues.

Firstly, is the dog in question conformed for breeding? Are all medical tests performed? Is it documented and on paper? Is the breeder willing to provide a written and attested history record of the lineage?

Secondly, Ideally the time between two litters from the same bitch needs to be 18 months from what I have read at a few places. This allows the bitch to gain her health back and then give another litter of healthy puppies. However, not many people follow it. At the least a years gap should be given. Then, for a breed like boxer, the breeding should happen only after 2 years. Now coming to your situation:-

You said the female is 30 months and bred twice. There are two possibilities which raise a red flag:-
1. If the bitch is giving pups right now, the earlier breeding should have ideally happened 18 months back i.e. when she was 12 months old. If the breeder has chosen to bred a 12 month old boxer female, he cant be called reputable and probably is a BYB or puppy mill breeder.
2. Other is if the first breeding happened when the female was 24 mo (ideally), which means he kep just a gap of 6 months between two litters. Again all warnings of a BYB or puppy mill.

Generally, boxer litters are usually 4 plus. The fact that the bitch is giving just two puppies after having 5 in the first litter rings big bells to my ears. Clearly the bitch is not ready for breeding.

You also said, he plans to breed again in March to June 2015. Just 9 months within birth of a litter. So 3 litters within a span of 15 - 18 months. This seems very wrong.

I suggest if you have not signed any paperwork, walk off the deal. The biggest issue with such breeders is that the decision to breed is his private and personal right but the consequence of it is public. If possible, you should report this to some kind of animal rights NGO in your area.
 
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