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I’m sure this will be a controversial post full of opinions, but here’s the deal. My dog trains great. I make sure he understands every command before I expect anything from him, but here’s the deal, he only listens when he wants. Aka when I have food for him in my hand. He could be an all star obedience dog when I have food for him in my hand, but when I don’t, he kinda just blows me off most of the time. Time for an e collar? Orrrrr....can someone help with a solution???


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How old is your dog?

When doesn't your dog listen? All the time? Just off leash? When there are outside distractions?

Personally I look at an e-collar as a last resort and for proofing certain commands. You really need to know what you are doing when using it or you could actually create more problems.
 

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There are 3 phases in training. To keep everything simple you have
Reward every time,
Reward some of the time,
No reward.
To start you reward everything, every time. Once you have done that a few hundred times (a couple of week or so) you move to reward some of the time.
Meaning you ask for the command and only reward sometimes (so maybe every other time, maybe 3 times in a row then no reward for 2 times.... just mix it up don't do the same thing every time). If he/she is missing some of the commands help them into position.
Once they are doing the command with out any problems and without food every time... then you can start to correct for checking out.

For the most part it sounds like he/she is checking out when there are distractions . So I would restart from the beginning. Reset the foundation for a few days, then slowly add distraction. Start using their regular food as the training treat. If they don't want to work for their regular kibble, then give then a day or so and I'm sure that may change.
Hope that helps.
 

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Also.. If you want to move to a e collar that's cool.
But it has a method and conditioning phase just like any other training.
You wouid't want to put it on and just start hitting him with high correction for not listening.
That is a sure way to mess a dog up.
I think of it as a electric leash.. so if he checks out I would give him/her a low level tap much the same as a leash pop...saying look at me.

The only time I use it for a high correction are things I don't want to see more then once (ie: wanting to chase car, jumping fences, crittering, etc..)
 

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Your asking the wrong question I believe??? As your question seems to be "What's wrong with this freaking dog??? And you should be asking ... "What am I doing wrong???" Or as I am want to say ... "Out think your dog!" :)

It took my first Working Line Over Sized (Pack Fighting/Human Aggressive) GSD ... and my first trip to the ER for stitches (in my hand) every (breaking up said pack fights, (Band Dawg vs GSD) to fully understand the value of that advise! But once I did ... he was a piece of cake. I don't always follow my own advice but that bit I do! It works much better than "fighting with a behaviour you don't want.

I can't find it but Michael Ellios has a video on Michael Ellis, has a clip on "Randomizing the use of treats." If your dog expects to get a treat every time he performs a behaviour?? If he is not interested in the treat at that particular time?? Then you know why bother???

Oh and ME would be this guy.:

The next thing you're, likely to discover, is that he won't listen with distractions??? Everything and anything ... is more interesting than you (at the moment)??? None of this is "new," it's a Boxer and "that" is what they do. Yet another one of my oft mentioned quotes is from a "Pro Trainer" of LE K9's. And he said "I can train three GSD's in the same amount of time it takes me to train one Boxer!" So you know ... it's not just you! :)

This is a long way of saying ... that right now for this issue "not listening/caring" an E-Collar is not the right solution or the proper tool! There is no issue with the proper use of an E-Collar but "right now, it won't help you and most likely without proper instruction (IE use a trainer.) You will mess up your do???

The only "tools" you need right now is a leash and the ability to properly walk your dog. Rules Structure and Limitations, is most likely what he is missing? You can't get there by just slapping an E-Collar on him???

I got's more if your interested??? Oh and what is the particular issue at hand???
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How old is your dog?



When doesn't your dog listen? All the time? Just off leash? When there are outside distractions?



Personally I look at an e-collar as a last resort and for proofing certain commands. You really need to know what you are doing when using it or you could actually create more problems.


He is 7 months. Almost 8 now. He doesn’t listen outside a training session pretty much ever. Example...”in” is his command to go in his kennel. He does it consistently while training but when I go to leave and try to put him in the crate he doesn’t obey the command.


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Discussion Starter #7
There are 3 phases in training. To keep everything simple you have
Reward every time,
Reward some of the time,
No reward.
To start you reward everything, every time. Once you have done that a few hundred times (a couple of week or so) you move to reward some of the time.
Meaning you ask for the command and only reward sometimes (so maybe every other time, maybe 3 times in a row then no reward for 2 times.... just mix it up don't do the same thing every time). If he/she is missing some of the commands help them into position.
Once they are doing the command with out any problems and without food every time... then you can start to correct for checking out.

For the most part it sounds like he/she is checking out when there are distractions . So I would restart from the beginning. Reset the foundation for a few days, then slowly add distraction. Start using their regular food as the training treat. If they don't want to work for their regular kibble, then give then a day or so and I'm sure that may change.
Hope that helps.


Give them a day or so as in fast them?


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Discussion Starter #8
Your asking the wrong question I believe??? As your question seems to be "What's wrong with this freaking dog??? And you should be asking ... "What am I doing wrong???" Or as I am want to say ... "Out think your dog!" :)

It took my first Working Line Over Sized (Pack Fighting/Human Aggressive) GSD ... and my first trip to the ER for stitches (in my hand) every (breaking up said pack fights, (Band Dawg vs GSD) to fully understand the value of that advise! But once I did ... he was a piece of cake. I don't always follow my own advice but that bit I do! It works much better than "fighting with a behaviour you don't want.

I can't find it but Michael Ellios has a video on Michael Ellis, has a clip on "Randomizing the use of treats." If your dog expects to get a treat every time he performs a behaviour?? If he is not interested in the treat at that particular time?? Then you know why bother???

Oh and ME would be this guy.:
Michael Ellis' Philosophy of Dog Training - YouTube

The next thing you're, likely to discover, is that he won't listen with distractions??? Everything and anything ... is more interesting than you (at the moment)??? None of this is "new," it's a Boxer and "that" is what they do. Yet another one of my oft mentioned quotes is from a "Pro Trainer" of LE K9's. And he said "I can train three GSD's in the same amount of time it takes me to train one Boxer!" So you know ... it's not just you! :)

This is a long way of saying ... that right now for this issue "not listening/caring" an E-Collar is not the right solution or the proper tool! There is no issue with the proper use of an E-Collar but "right now, it won't help you and most likely without proper instruction (IE use a trainer.) You will mess up your do???

The only "tools" you need right now is a leash and the ability to properly walk your dog. Rules Structure and Limitations, is most likely what he is missing? You can't get there by just slapping an E-Collar on him???

I got's more if your interested??? Oh and what is the particular issue at hand???


Very interested in more. Send it my way. And the issue is that he knows the commands but performs them when he wants. Not based on on when I say. Based on food reward. Not loyalty. He is stubborn. And correction is hard. How do I correct him? And make him do something he plain and simple refuses to do. Like I said the issue isn’t during a training session usually is when I want him to perform properly otherwise. See example about going into his kennel in another reply b


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Give them a day or so as in fast them?


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By the sounds of it you would be best served by getting with a good trainer to teach you some basics, like corrections.

Short of that here are a few tips.
Fasting...
Yes, though by the sound of it he shouldn't have a problem taking the food.
From what you are saying.. you're just not that important to him.
A good way to change that perception is to make him work for his food.
I'm going to assume he eats twice a day.
So in the morning take his food and do obedience commands (Sit, down, stand, back, place.. there are plenty).
If he doesn't want to "work" put the food away and try again later. Same thing at night.
Work with him for 1 month like this and you will have a completely different dog.
You can make a big difference in a short time at his age.

As to the crate problem ( which was in chips post)
Sounds like you may only use the crate when you're leaving him alone.
It would help to practice some crate time when you are home as well.

Hope it helps.
 

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You might go back to basics. Our breeder said to first teach the puppy what "yes", and "no" means. I'd call the dog's name, and give a quality treat like chicken when he came every time! If he didn't come at all there was no other conversation. If he did come I just said "yes". There was no other conversation or reaction. We were told to train about 10 minutes twice a day. Young dogs just don't have the attention span.


If we did a little tug play after the 10 minutes training, the whole thing became something the dog looked forward to. As bte2 said training will become something the dog looks forward to. I had some disgusting Salmon treats I saved for the 10 minute training sessions, and that was the only time he got them.


I know they don't really start serious training for obedience until dogs are older than yours.
 

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You might go back to basics. Our breeder said to first teach the puppy what "yes", and "no" means. I'd call the dog's name, and give a quality treat like chicken when he came every time! If he didn't come at all there was no other conversation. If he did come I just said "yes". There was no other conversation or reaction. We were told to train about 10 minutes twice a day. Young dogs just don't have the attention span.


If we did a little tug play after the 10 minutes training, the whole thing became something the dog looked forward to. As bte2 said training will become something the dog looks forward to. I had some disgusting Salmon treats I saved for the 10 minute training sessions, and that was the only time he got them.


I know they don't really start serious training for obedience until dogs are older than yours.
I agree for the most part.
The "yes" is just a marker word, I tend to think a clicker is better but either work.
Short sessions are always good. It's better to do lots of short session instead of 1 long one.
I prefer using the kibble instead of just treats because it gives you more chances to work. And the dog is more "hungry" to work.
The only thing I would disagree on is the "being older for serious OB"
I would say the earlier the better. At 8-9 month you can totally work some serious OB.
 

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I agree for the most part.
The "yes" is just a marker word, I tend to think a clicker is better but either work.
Short sessions are always good. It's better to do lots of short session instead of 1 long one.
I prefer using the kibble instead of just treats because it gives you more chances to work. And the dog is more "hungry" to work.
The only thing I would disagree on is the "being older for serious OB"
I would say the earlier the better. At 8-9 month you can totally work some serious OB.
With Zuke this was definitely the issue. Never would have thought a good treat is really not worth the work in his mind when he already got his regular food.lol

Soon as I did what you said it was like night and day.
 

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He is 7 months. Almost 8 now. He doesn’t listen outside a training session pretty much ever. Example...”in” is his command to go in his kennel. He does it consistently while training but when I go to leave and try to put him in the crate he doesn’t obey the command.


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One thing you might want to try for in the house, which helped me when Zuke was that age would be to use a leash or SLL in the house when need be and only when you have eyes on. I found with my guy at that age he knew all the commands I wanted for the house, but he liked to make them "optional". lol

Basically it became a game for him where if I gave a command and he didn't listen, if I came over to him he would start running around the house and of course at 1st I would try to get him which was his game. I found if I had the SLL on him(didn't even have to be in my hand) and I gave a command he would listen right away. Took a little while and a lot of repetition before I was able to take the leash off, but it worked for my guy. This was done without any treats, because he already knew the command and I guess it was my way of proofing it with the leash.
 

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He is 7 months. Almost 8 now. He doesn’t listen outside a training session pretty much ever. Example...”in” is his command to go in his kennel. He does it consistently while training but when I go to leave and try to put him in the crate he doesn’t obey the command.


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Sometimes "less is more." :)

I'm actually surprised that he is Crate Trained??? That is impressive but ... something went wrong somewhere??? Right now his Crate is not a safe place?? Right now the Crate means "Playtime is over?? So you know , why would I chose to go in there of my own volition??

You gotta switch things up! You gotta switch things up, starting with the actually command. "In" is not gonna cut it. He has already developed bad habits and a poor association with that command so just ditch it.

Let's use instead "Kennel Up" details are here.:

And you'll want to say once or maybe twice??? And plan time when your not rushing out the door to get this done. And an additional change would be feed the dog "Only in the Crate." Every meal and treats only in the Crate.

Put the food in the Crate ... say "Kennel Up" leave the food down for 15 minutes, if he does not go in ... he does not eat! Put the food away and try again at the next meal.

No browbeating, no coxing, no Corrections. You want to teach him to make "Good Choices" and if he wants to eat, then "Kenneling Up" is a good choice. If you start with Friday evenings meal ... the change should be accomplished by Sunday evening???

And for the record, I've never actually Crate Trained any of my dogs?? I never had the need to do so until I did?? That would have been my first Oversize Working Line GSD. And him, I actually "DE- CRATE TRAINED???"

And that "poor choice" on my part would come back (seven months) later to bite me in the butt??? Five pack fights between him and my Band Dawg, human aggression and my first trip to the ER for stitches (breaking up pack fights!)

Live and hopefully learn, it worked out well in the long run but that's another story. :cheers:
 

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I was just reading all the training comments! I also have an 8.5 month old boxer, ive had her for about a month now . She listens well for the most part although almost as soon as she turned 8 mos she started to have selective hearing lol like if we go outside to use the bathroom & she wants to stay out to play i usually have to pull out the treats. Shes crate trained & used to spend most of her time in one before i got her, but now she doesnt like to be locked in, which i was only doing when i left to the store or work. But when i got home she would be super excited & come bursting out the cage. She also escaped a couple times so ive been leaving her out for the past week or so while im at work (just in the common areas) and its been fine except she has peed a couple times before i got home.
The thing i am struggling with is her weight and geting her to not have diareah or soft poop. When i got her she was really skinny & ppl kept asking me if she was a rescue dog - shes not. Shes put on a couple pounds since then but u can still see her ribs. Any advice? To deal with the poop sich ive been giving boiled rice & chicken. I was trying to switch her food but i may have tried to do too much too fast. Im also a first time dog mom lol

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Discussion Starter #16
One thing you might want to try for in the house, which helped me when Zuke was that age would be to use a leash or SLL in the house when need be and only when you have eyes on. I found with my guy at that age he knew all the commands I wanted for the house, but he liked to make them "optional". lol



Basically it became a game for him where if I gave a command and he didn't listen, if I came over to him he would start running around the house and of course at 1st I would try to get him which was his game. I found if I had the SLL on him(didn't even have to be in my hand) and I gave a command he would listen right away. Took a little while and a lot of repetition before I was able to take the leash off, but it worked for my guy. This was done without any treats, because he already knew the command and I guess it was my way of proofing it with the leash.


SLL? Sorry...kinda new to this. What’s that?


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SLL? Sorry...kinda new to this. What’s that?


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Its a slip lead leash. I like it because corrections are quick and easy. It sits high on the neck right behind the back of the head so you have full control of the head with very minimal pressure(where the head goes, the dog goes) instead of a collar and leash which is at the base of neck and probably one of the strongest areas of a dog. Basically its what Cesar uses in most of his stuff on tv.
 

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One thing you might want to try for in the house, which helped me when Zuke was that age would be to use a leash or SLL in the house when need be and only when you have eyes on.
Matt ... I'm gonna step in a bit to add "additional information." As you know the SLL is kinda my thing.

But lot's of members with vary levels of level and understand??? And for indoors use the "SLL" is a poor tool of choice for most people. If one is not constantly attentive??? A SLL indoors could choke a dog out if one is lucky or actually kill a dog if they are not lucky??

It's a noose and if it get's up on furniture and the dogs struggle to keep free because the owner steps out or just fell asleep, they could kill there dog?? Now I have never heard of that happening but it could???

I'm a big proponent of "not laying hands to correct them" but for indoors use the proper tool is a "Drag Leash." It's a short regular leash (three to four feet) with the handle cut off so that it does not caught up on furniture??

Now that said ... I did use a SLL indoors for a 24 hour stint with a fresh off the street PB Pit Bull rescue. That "had" a serious cat issue!!! I slept on the couch with the SLL and the dog was at the other end! If that dog moved ... I knew it and could stop her!!

That was a rough night! But at the end of 24 hours?? That cat killer, bowed down to most skittish cat!! I have to say even I was impressed! I did not expect to see my "aptly named" Spooky for months in the living room?? But she was the first one to official, greet this new creature. And the would have been named "Sally." Bowed down to meet her!

Sigh ... sadly, we found her owners and had to give her back, that sucked! :(

But just saying for general use, a SLL is "NOT" the proper tool of choice for use indoors. A "Drag Leash" is a better choice. :)
 

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SLL? Sorry...kinda new to this. What’s that?


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Aww well you have actually brought up ... part two! So a simple question. How does he do on walks, any issues there ... because the walk, I feel is going to be your ultimate solution. in order to get yu over this bump in any case. :)
 

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Matt ... I'm gonna step in a bit to add "additional information." As you know the SLL is kinda my thing.

But lot's of members with vary levels of level and understand??? And for indoors use the "SLL" is a poor tool of choice for most people. If one is not constantly attentive??? A SLL indoors could choke a dog out if one is lucky or actually kill a dog if they are not lucky??

It's a noose and if it get's up on furniture and the dogs struggle to keep free because the owner steps out or just fell asleep, they could kill there dog?? Now I have never heard of that happening but it could???

I'm a big proponent of "not laying hands to correct them" but for indoors use the proper tool is a "Drag Leash." It's a short regular leash (three to four feet) with the handle cut off so that it does not caught up on furniture??

Now that said ... I did use a SLL indoors for a 24 hour stint with a fresh off the street PB Pit Bull rescue. That "had" a serious cat issue!!! I slept on the couch with the SLL and the dog was at the other end! If that dog moved ... I knew it and could stop her!!

That was a rough night! But at the end of 24 hours?? That cat killer, bowed down to most skittish cat!! I have to say even I was impressed! I did not expect to see my "aptly named" Spooky for months in the living room?? But she was the first one to official, greet this new creature. And the would have been named "Sally." Bowed down to meet her!

Sigh ... sadly, we found her owners and had to give her back, that sucked! :(

But just saying for general use, a SLL is "NOT" the proper tool of choice for use indoors. A "Drag Leash" is a better choice. :)
Definitely bring up some very good points, and thats why I mentioned only when "you have eyes on". I just assume most people use them, but yeah if you never used one, you don't want to start inside. I would not be letting my dog roam around the house unsupervised with an sll on by any means. Apologies for not making that very clear.
 
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