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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently Norway banned the breeding of certain brachycephalic breeds. Currently only two breed have been named in the ban the Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and English Bulldog, however many more breeds including boxers are being discussed. Australia and South africa are also introducing similar legislation. I guess i am curious about everyone's opinion on if these are isolated incidents or an emerging trend with more to come. The article about norway is linked below


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I don’t see this happening in the USA anyway can’t speak for how they do things overseas. The US has a pretty terrible record for preventing animal abuse for instance most offenders get away with a slap on the wrist we also permit puppy mills and abuse of animals in laboratory settings one exception those poor beagles at the Envigo operation how many more are just like that out there? The horse racing industry is fraught with abuse as well wherever money is involved animals will always be on the losing end. As far as Boxers go responsible breeder are out there right now trying to improve their lines so health conditions can be addressed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don’t see this happening in the USA anyway can’t speak for how they do things overseas. The US has a pretty terrible record for preventing animal abuse for instance most offenders get away with a slap on the wrist we also permit puppy mills and abuse of animals in laboratory settings one exception those poor beagles at the Envigo operation how many more are just like that out there? The horse racing industry is fraught with abuse as well wherever money is involved animals will always be on the losing end. As far as Boxers go responsible breeder are out there right now trying to improve their lines so health conditions can be addressed.
Yikes in most european countries a Zuchttauglichkeitsprüfung, ztp for short or a similar health test is required to legally breed dogs
 

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OK, I did read the article and the info (in my opinion) about "Breed Specific Legislation," was not the point of the article?
The author just threw it in at the end to make a point about "Legislation in general?"

Most of the "Dog's," that make those list ... tend to breath quite well, Thank You, very much. Just to name at random the "Dogo Argentino,"
Dog Carnivore Dog breed Collar Fawn


Just recognized by the AKC in 2020 and already banned in some countries, as a "Dangerous Dog?" So yeah ...

But back on point, most likely Norway has a bias anyway? As there dog is a Norwichan Elk, Hound, so if a dog does look like that? It must be wrong? But hey "They," say it's the "brachycephalic breeds," cuz they have "Issues." Well I won't argue that and god knows a true "English BullDog," has a host of issues!

The King's Charles and the English Bulldog are low hanging fruit. They aren't "working Dog's," so they really don't have a built in advocacy group, to defend them, in Norway?

I doubt such legislature would pass in Spain or Norway? And the "Boxer?" Well good or bad? That is not gonna happen in the US? A Band on Breeding? First we now have our Boxer (after WWII) and the Europeans have there's ... the "German Boxers." The AKC makes no distinction between the two?

And that means the "Germans," set the standards for the "Breed," And the "Boxer is a working breed." Now I will grant for the thirteen mile run ... the temps aren't that high ( in Germany) and an American Line Boxer could do better in higher temps but that is beside the point. :)

The Germans created the "Boxer,." and they are most certainly not going to "Ban," Breeding them? And in "America," while the "Boxer," is our dog "also." So good luck ... telling us we can't "Breed," what we want? And I am not a "Breeder," just a "pass owner and fan of the Breed." And I like their "funny face!" :)
 

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Yes the way I interpret the article is that they are banning the breeding of unhealthy dogs, "brachycephalic breeds , due to the fact they have breathing issues. To me it seems rather general as many do not have breathing issues and climate also affects how they breathe and general care. Most European countries have already adopted governmental rules on what we consider "normal" life here in the USA. (though that seems to be changing too). As far as the banning of "pittbulls" or other dangerous breeds, same story. They have a reputation, often unfounded but do to poor breeding and poor environmental care of the dogs, we have problems, and because of it the dogs many times are unstable, often do to no fault of their own, just bad owners. Any dog can be dangerous when you put them in the right scenario, or as with people some can be bad, thats life. "brachycephalic breeds" can have more issues when breeders do not do their diligence. For example breeding larger heads than normal in the bulldog, or shortening of the already shorter snouts. A good reputable breeder does the best to stay in standard but not going over because it happens to be popular. Dog clubs are the ones who should control more of it. Governments that take control over these issues by saying you can't have them..well to me that is over controlling. With the current situations within the US, it wouldn't surprise me to have more government control over such things as breeding. Little by little is how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yikes in most european countries a Zuchttauglichkeitsprüfung, ztp for short or a similar health test is required to legally breed dogs
The article you posted specifically mentioned that Norway bans pit bulls because they are "considered dangerous". That fact makes me question their decision making process regarding dogs, health related or not.
oh yes i see what you are saying, but that part is normal over 30 countries including most of europe, the U.K, australia, and most of the middle east have bans on pitbulls. the breed was created for bull baiting but with most countries outlawing things like bear baiting and bull baiting there is no longer a reason to keep breeding such dogs.
 

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... the breed was created for bull baiting but with most countries outlawing things like bear baiting and bull baiting there is no longer a reason to keep breeding such dogs.
Original intent, is a pretty poor argument for condemning and by that as an argument, you have also condemned the "Boxer," as well as the class/group of Molosser Dog's as a whole.

And that would include a "whole bunch of dog's!" And today the AKC, is considering removing the Boxer from the "Working Group," and reclassifying them in a new Molosser Group?

That would be these guy's.

And as for "original intent."
..


As the saying goes ... "Becareful what you wish for?"
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Original intent, is a pretty poor argument for condemning and by that as an argument, you have also condemned the "Boxer," as well as the class/group of Molosser Dog's as a whole.

And that would include a "whole bunch of dog's!" And today the AKC, is considering removing the Boxer from the "Working Group," and reclassifying them in a new Molosser Group?

That would be these guy's.

And as for "original intent."
..


As the saying goes ... "Becareful what you wish for?"
I see your point. I would add that over the course of time boxers have been able to excel in a multitude of other applications. I am not really sure how many working applications pitbulls actually have nor do i really have a personal opinion in any direction of the breed i was merely pointing that the banning of that breed is basically standard practice at this point i have been to a good amount of countries and exclusion of the breed is to be expected basically everywhere
 

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On the pit bull issue that breed is mostly banned because of the large number of human deaths and maiming by these dogs unfortunately for this breed and others like it the dogs that are the most aggressive are bred with others of the same temperament to increase the chance of a very aggressive dog and that’s what you get. It’s not always the fault of the way the dog was brought up it’s just inherited the bad temperament most dog owners have no idea how to train these dogs or control them it’s a recipe for disaster. I knew some people who adopted a pit bull puppy and that dog was already dog aggressive at 8 weeks old had never been mistreated and his owners did attempt to train this out of him but were not successful he lived to be I think 12 and he was that way his entire life he was good with people but no other dogs or small animals. It’s frightening to me to see people now crossing these types of dogs with all other kinds of mastiffs and whatever they think is tough. On the health issue there are plenty of breeds with those Dobermans have heart issues and Golden retrievers are now considered number 1 as far as cancer goes Great Danes have bloat and joint issues and GSD has almost been ruined as a working dog with overagulation and hip issues
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
On the pit bull issue that breed is mostly banned because of the large number of human deaths and maiming by these dogs unfortunately for this breed and others like it the dogs that are the most aggressive are bred with others of the same temperament to increase the chance of a very aggressive dog and that’s what you get. It’s not always the fault of the way the dog was brought up it’s just inherited the bad temperament most dog owners have no idea how to train these dogs or control them it’s a recipe for disaster. I knew some people who adopted a pit bull puppy and that dog was already dog aggressive at 8 weeks old had never been mistreated and his owners did attempt to train this out of him but were not successful he lived to be I think 12 and he was that way his entire life he was good with people but no other dogs or small animals. It’s frightening to me to see people now crossing these types of dogs with all other kinds of mastiffs and whatever they think is tough. On the health issue there are plenty of breeds with those Dobermans have heart issues and Golden retrievers are now considered number 1 as far as cancer goes Great Danes have bloat and joint issues and GSD has almost been ruined as a working dog with overagulation and hip issues
Yeah all purebred dogs have issues. but there isn't legislation banning most pure pred dogs. there is for brachycephalic dogs now. I first thought that banning breeds like boxers could be a possibility in the near future when airlines starting refusing to fly brachycephalic breeds. it to me seemed like it was just the tip of the iceberg as far as what could come.
 

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Yeah all purebred dogs have issues. but there isn't legislation banning most pure bred dogs. there is for brachycephalic dogs now. I first thought that banning breeds like boxers could be a possibility in the near future when airlines starting refusing to fly brachycephalic breeds. it to me seemed like it was just the tip of the iceberg as far as what could come.
Well yeah, Banning the first, "brachycephalic breed, from being bred," in a country is a huge step, granted!

In theory, that should mean in about 20 years, those two breed's will be pretty much just gone altogether in "Norway?" And I don't know if they will go after other "Beed's? The no fly Ban, will make "puppies," more expensive (everywhere) anyway? If they have to go long distances? They would have to fly as passengers, if airlines do that? And if they do? Can puppies fly alone?

But typically if you tell people they can't have something? Then that is what they want. But the English Bulldog is noticeable missing? So ... what is that about? But yeah not good (in my view) in anycase.
 

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Chip, Usually now if you fly a pup they can't go alone you have to hire a "flight nanny". Not many people nor the airlines like dogs in cargo and usually brachycephalic breeds are banned from cargo. Takes one stupid person, like the airline that forced the person to keep the lil pug in a overhead cabin during flight and of course it dies. People just don't have common sense anymore. Where did it go? The world is changing and not for the better. I have been naive..I thought we were, for the most part past all the garbage. Sometimes I am glad I am old.(older, lol).
 

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Just read a disturbing story about a military transport plane that was moving service members pets from the US to I think it was Japan the plane landed and the dogs were offloaded in crates onto the tarmac and left there for over an hour in the sun temps in the high 90s and high humidity they would not allow the dogs inside the terminal 3 dogs died before they would let thier owners claim them there has been much outrage about this incident so now they will allow dogs to wait inside now
 

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On the pit bull issue that breed is mostly banned because of the large number of human deaths and maiming by these dogs unfortunately for this breed and others like it the dogs that are the most aggressive are bred with others of the same temperament to increase the chance of a very aggressive dog and that’s what you get. It’s not always the fault of the way the dog was brought up it’s just inherited the bad temperament most dog owners have no idea how to train these dogs or control them it’s a recipe for disaster. I knew some people who adopted a pit bull puppy and that dog was already dog aggressive at 8 weeks old had never been mistreated and his owners did attempt to train this out of him but were not successful he lived to be I think 12 and he was that way his entire life he was good with people but no other dogs or small animals. It’s frightening to me to see people now crossing these types of dogs with all other kinds of mastiffs and whatever they think is tough. On the health issue there are plenty of breeds with those Dobermans have heart issues and Golden retrievers are now considered number 1 as far as cancer goes Great Danes have bloat and joint issues and GSD has almost been ruined as a working dog with overagulation and hip issues
Well ... "Dog Aggression and Human Aggression," are two different things'. If you get sigh, a "Molosser Based, Breed" and just expect to sail off to a "Dog Park?" Don't be surprise ... if that does not work out to well? Can they learn to get along with other dog's?

Yes absolutely, if you know what you are doing. Been there done that "Worked out fine, in the long run." Step one would be "teaching them, to ignore other dog's!" If the dog can't walk around the block and not "Blow up," at the sight of another Dog? Then hire a trainer, learn to deal ie stay clear of other dog's or get a different breed.

But having dog "issues," is not what get's "Pit Bull," banned. Human Aggression is, and the "issue started a long time ago." But "Pit Bull," is now a catch all phrase? And one would have to wonder,how can the same "Breed," that owner's swear are the sweetest dog's on earth and luv's everybody and others' say they are Evil Incarnate? And it's the same dog? And the answer is simple "Game Bred Pit's?"

I had never heard of them before? But on Germansheaprdforum, I used to talk about me and my WL GSD, and I had to defend him from loose dogs on local walk's ... all the time, from lot's of different "Bred's." Pit's include and she assured me ... that "we," had not come across a "Game Bred, Pit?"

That is a line of "Pit's," that were "Human Aggressive and Dog Aggressive ... out the gate!" And should have been PTS. But hey they were great fighter's ... so we will keep them. And many decades later here we are. And as there or no "Pit Standards," as such ... cuz it is not a "Breed" JQP," does not know they exist or where they are?

So some people just end up with dog's that have the trait for Human Aggression? The dog thing is just par for the course? A Pit is not a Beagle, so you know ... stay out of the "Dog Park," unless your going to the work and keep your life simple. :)


Ok the GSD thing? And the "overagulation and hip issues," what you are describing is the American Showline Shepherd. That is "not," a Working Dog, usually Black and Red and lot's of fur and yep the sloping back, thing going on. That is "not," a Working Line GSD, that is a "Pet," or a Show Dog.

I have only seen one ASL GSD, that was also a "Real LE K9?" Pretty freaking rare for one of those guy's to being K9 LE stuff. They did not exist, until the early 90's I think it is?

They get little to know respect on Germanshepard.Com, because they are not a "Working Dog." And they can be Snappy, skittish and nervous and weak of nerve. I would not recommend one.

On the other hand you have your "Czech, DDR, East German GSD and the West German Showline Dog's. " I think the Czech Dog's were also know as "Hitler's Dog's?" Raised to bite Woman and Children with out a problem, so yeah ...

They are great dog's but I wont recommend to annyone I know. And I also don't tend to recommend them anyway? I have to many stories of LE K9's going out of control bitting neighbors and one that chewed off the K9, officers son's leg! The neighbor had to deal with the dog and save the officer's son from death! The kid ... should not have let the dog out of the kennel?!

Now that said I luv the Breed, they are amazing and my Rocky WL GSD, saved me when I slipped on the ice and went down while defending him, from two charging dog's? He was doing what I had trained him to do ... stay behind me and do nothing. But when I went down ... he stepped up unbid? IE ... well this is different? Perhaps I should make my presence known?

He stepped over me and I heard a loud roar and saw a lot of white teeth?! And that last dog ... disappeared, WTH? I certainly did not "train him to do that?" He was a great dog ... but a lot of work. He did not like people and hated toddler's but he knew how to make "Good Choices," when confronted by the unexpected, another story?

Nonetheless.I don't recommend a WL GSD to anyone I know and that includes "online." But nontheless I do know at least one person that got a WL GSD, because of what I had told about "issues." And he is quite happy with his dog. But hey if LE K9. officers can't control there freaking dog's ... what chance does JQP have.
Folks should keep that in mine if they get one, just saying.

And the WL GSD was bred to heard Sheep. And also to bite the Crap out of people! So you know ... "Good Luck with that!" And the over articulated "American Line Shepard?" LOL well ... nice looking dog, is as much as I would say, if I saw one.:)

But a WL GSD ... is a great Dog, but for most people ... "Not Recommended!"
 

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Just read a disturbing story about a military transport plane that was moving service members pets from the US to I think it was Japan the plane landed and the dogs were offloaded in crates onto the tarmac and left there for over an hour in the sun temps in the high 90s and high humidity they would not allow the dogs inside the terminal 3 dogs died before they would let thier owners claim them there has been much outrage about this incident so now they will allow dogs to wait inside now
Yep I have heard about that also. The airline leave the dog's to "Cook," on the landing pad! That's is Bad but the "Pug," was just flat criminal! Me and my "Pug," if I had one ... would have just had to miss that flight, cuz there would be no way in He$$, they would have put my "Pug," in overhead storage!
 
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