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Discussion Starter #1
What do you guys think of Electric Fences?  Do they really work?

What about the traing collars for training?  Thoughts???
 

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I'll preface by saying I am categorically opposed to using electric shock to train dogs.

By "electric fence", do you mean the 'invisible' fence, or a 'hot wire' around a physical fence?

Invisible fences are generally not a good choice.  Primarily, they do not keep other animals or people (especially kids) out of your yard, which puts your dog at risk, and puts you at risk for a lawsuit should the dog bite something/someone that comes into their yard.  (There was just an uproar recently when a "big" dog (really it was medium-sized) severely injured a small dog that was walking with its owner, unleashed, at night and ran into the big dog's yard; despite the fact that the big dog never left its own property, despite the fact that the big dog was legally contained, despite the fact that the small dog's owner was in violation of the leash laws, the public outcry was to punish the big dog and his owner.  There have been other similar instances with children, as well, wandering in to invisibly-fenced yards (different big dogs).)  

Secondly, many dogs - and Boxers are quite prone to this - will ignore the pain of the shock if there's something they really want on the other side of the fence line, and will run right through it.  They will not, however, ignore the pain to cross the fence line to get back into the yard.  So the fence may not keep your dog in the yard, but it will usually keep him out of it.  Some dogs are so traumatized by the shocks they receive during the training process that they refuse to go into the yard at all.  There are some cases of collars malfunctioning and continuously shocking the dog, and many cases of the batteries in the collar dying and not being replaced, so the dog is free to roam.  (Some dogs also can tell when the shocking collar is on, and know that if it's not, they don't have to stay in the yard.)

Honestly, if you take the time to train the dog to the invisible fence the proper way, you can train the dog to stay in the yard without resorting to shocking it, and so can save your money.

If you're talking about a hot wire on a physical fence, then I see no need for one.  There are many ways to deal with digging or jumping without resorting to using electric shock on the dog.

As far as training collars (and I'm assuming you mean electric shock training collars, here), I can think of only a very few specific situations in which they may possibly be warranted, and then only as a last resort, and only if used by a highly experienced professional.  Most of the time, with proper training and consultation, it would never get to that point.
 

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we have an electric fence for my lab and rott and it works wonders... we used to have a regular fence but they would actually headbutt the fence posts out and get out, so we took it down and got the invisible fence.

they have never got out since and even when they dont have their collars on they wont try to get out
 

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We have used the invisible fence for over 15 years.  We have had 4 boxers and trained each of them with the fence.  We have over 5 acres with the invisible fence covering just over 1 acre.   At our other house we had over 3 acres covered with the fence.

PROS
1.  You can cover alot of area with the line for a much cheaper cost than fencing with other materials.
2.  You don't have to use gates, etc. for your drive if you want to have the front of your yard fenced too.
3.  It allows the dogs to have full access to any area you like.
4.  With proper training the dogs will stay in the yard even without the collars on.  
5.  Unlike what many think about the invisible fence you don't have to continually shock your dog to the them to stay in the yard.  In many cases the dog will never even need to be shocked or shocked at such a low level that they are only slightly annoyed at it.  That is usually only required ONCE.  
6.  You don't have to worry about someone leaving the gate open, them digging under the fence, trying to jump the fence and getting caught, etc.
7.  It is movable so you can change or adjust their space or you can take it with you when you move.
8.  You don't have to bury the entire area you are covering unless you need to mow over it (we only have the front area of our yard actually burried a few inches, the sides and back the wire just lays in the field.

CONS
1.  You have to make sure you keep the unit in good working order.
2.  You have to make sure you keep the batteries changed and working in the collar (once they are trained this isn't a really big problem because the dogs know where their boundaries are).
4.  You may have a very stubborn dog who may not care about the shock and who will need constant supervison while outside even with the fence.  Calli was half pit/boxer and had a pain tolerance we have never seen in any other dog.  Nothing bothered her, she even had stitches twice at the vet for cuts in her side without being put under or any pain shot, she didn't even re-act to the vet when he did it.  Calli also had VERY thick fur.  She is a special case, all of our other boxers have responded right away to the training and the fence, even our rescue who had no training of any kind when we got her.


It is for sure a personal choice but please don't let anyone sway you from it because you think you will be hurting your dog.  There are many places where you aren't allowed to put up a traditional fence, etc. and using the invisible fence is a good alternative.  

You are not sitting there torturing your dog, we have used the shock on ourselves way before we even thought about using on the dogs.  The new collars have several settings so there is nearly no shock.  I have held them in my hands, put them on my legs and arms, and have survived the shock at different levels.  My husband has also done this.  We don't put the collars on so tight that they dig into the dogs neck so the shock is at the lightest setting.
 

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Unlike what many think about the invisible fence you don't have to continually shock your dog to the them to stay in the yard.
Just to clarify, that is not remotely what I think.  IMO, except in very specific circumstances, even one shock is too much.  You do acknowledge that in many cases the dog will never need to be shocked, and if that is the case (and I do believe it is possible for almost every dog, with the right training) then why not save the money on the fence?  You can get 50 boundary flags for less than $10, train the dog to the boundary as you would with the fence, and not have to use electric shock on your dog or risk the potential fallout that comes along with it. :)

I have held them in my hands, put them on my legs and arms, and have survived the shock at different levels.  My husband has also done this.  
I would suggest putting them on your neck for a more accurate comparison.

And no, I do not think a used-according-to-directions invisible fence is "cruel", nor do I think it is "torture".  I just think it is unnecessary and unfair to use electric shock to train a dog, it's not something I want used on my dogs or the puppies I produce, and it's certainly contradictory to the kind of relationship I want to have with my dogs.  Others, who don't object to using electric shock to train dogs, have no problem with invisible fences - however, the cautions and possible problems I mentioned still need to be considered.
 

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I didn't say YOU were the one making the statement.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry to cause any arguments.  Lets all just drop this topic.  It was for my buddy anyway.

Everyone has their own opinons and they should ALL be respected.

Have a great night.

John
 

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I wasn't jumping down your throat, just (as I said) clarifying my position.  I know you didn't quote me, but since I mentioned the fallout from electric shock I wanted make it clear that I know it is not a constant thing.

And I would ask you to please not jump to conclusions.  Just because I don't use electric shock on my dogs doesn't mean I let them roam free.   :roll:   And I specifically stated that I don't think someone who uses an electric fence according to directions is cruel or is torturing their dogs, so I'm really not sure why you've gotten defensive about this.

John, no worries - there's no argument at all on my end. :)
 

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[quote="Newcastle\";p=\"45357":1d3lo5ua]I wasn't jumping down your throat, just (as I said) clarifying my position.
 
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