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Hello
I鈥檝e just started taking my 41/2 year old girl to obedience training (馃お)
She is not motivated AT ALL by food, and just ignores me in class.

We don鈥檛 feed her before class, but she鈥檚 a picky eater at the best of times.
She loves all of the other dogs and people and is completely 100% distracted when we are there.
She pulls like anything on the lead. We are in the process of trialling several 芦 no-pull 禄 harnesses, and I鈥檓 trying to learn loose-lead walking with her - the lack of food as a training tool makes it all very hard.
She鈥檚 a gentle and loving girl and a lovely dog to live with.

We have a puppy again, and would like to take them out and about with us, so I鈥檓 trying to learn obedience and how to control her on a lead.

There are so many places that we like that let well-behaved dogs visit now.

I don鈥檛 think she鈥檚 too old for this.

We haven鈥檛 done this earlier with her as we should have. Life really got in the way. She did attend Puppy School , but that鈥檚 about it.


Anyone have any helpful input to help train her?
 

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Aww gezz, with your first dog being this much of a "PIA??" You really should not have gotten a second dog ... just yet. But what is done is done. Now as for Food/Treat's as motivation have you tried Hot Dog's??

And moving beyond that. OK, your trying a Dog Training Class apparently?? And it's not working, that is not really a surprise. Group classes, I found to be next to useless anyway. And if you have a dog with "issue's," they are waste of both time and money.

So two thing's first, I like to help owner's fix there dog's themselves. And for walking issues, you have to use a Real Tool, and that would be either a Slip Lead Leash or a Prong Collar. And I have a thread here that can help you with either one.

If that is still a bit much?? Plan B is a "Private Trainer!" Training you to walk your dog is fairly simply for a Pro and it won't take long for a Pro with a "Prong Collar," to teach you how to walk your dog. Cuz that will be what they use (for the most part for that) and it is fairly simple to teach you how to use one properly.

And to make your search for said "Pro," a bit easier just look for a Working Line GSD Trainer or any Trainer that works with Aggressive Dog's. Those guy's understand dog's and they will not spend your hard earned dollar's screwing around with "treat's!" One or maybe two private sessions and you'll be fine. Welcome Aboard. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Aww gezz, with your first dog being this much of a "PIA??" You really should not have gotten a second dog ... just yet. But what is done is done. Now as for Food/Treat's as motivation have you tried Hot Dog's??

And moving beyond that. OK, your trying a Dog Training Class apparently?? And it's not working, that is not really a surprise. Group classes, I found to be next to useless anyway. And if you have a dog with "issue's," they are waste of both time and money.

So two thing's first, I like to help owner's fix there dog's themselves. And for walking issues, you have to use a Real Tool, and that would be either a Slip Lead Leash or a Prong Collar. And I have a thread here that can help you with either one.

If that is still a bit much?? Plan B is a "Private Trainer!" Training you to walk your dog is fairly simply for a Pro and it won't take long for a Pro with a "Prong Collar," to teach you how to walk your dog. Cuz that will be what they use (for the most part for that) and it is fairly simple to teach you how to use one properly.

And to make your search for said "Pro," a bit easier just look for a Working Line GSD Trainer or any Trainer that works with Aggressive Dog's. Those guy's understand dog's and they will not spend your hard earned dollar's screwing around with "treat's!" One or maybe two private sessions and you'll be fine. Welcome Aboard. :)
Aww gezz, with your first dog being this much of a "PIA??" You really should not have gotten a second dog ... just yet. But what is done is done. Now as for Food/Treat's as motivation have you tried Hot Dog's??

And moving beyond that. OK, your trying a Dog Training Class apparently?? And it's not working, that is not really a surprise. Group classes, I found to be next to useless anyway. And if you have a dog with "issue's," they are waste of both time and money.

So two thing's first, I like to help owner's fix there dog's themselves. And for walking issues, you have to use a Real Tool, and that would be either a Slip Lead Leash or a Prong Collar. And I have a thread here that can help you with either one.

If that is still a bit much?? Plan B is a "Private Trainer!" Training you to walk your dog is fairly simply for a Pro and it won't take long for a Pro with a "Prong Collar," to teach you how to walk your dog. Cuz that will be what they use (for the most part for that) and it is fairly simple to teach you how to use one properly.

And to make your search for said "Pro," a bit easier just look for a Working Line GSD Trainer or any Trainer that works with Aggressive Dog's. Those guy's understand dog's and they will not spend your hard earned dollar's screwing around with "treat's!" One or maybe two private sessions and you'll be fine. Welcome Aboard. :)
Hi,
This is our 5th Boxer over 30 years.
The 6th one is our new puppy after we recently lost out beautiful big Boy.
We are currently enjoying the hotdogs that Cuddles is not interested in 馃お
Our 41/2 year old girl has lost her food drive since our Big Boy died.
The new puppy has not reignited her lust for food.
I thought that obedience training might add to her enjoyment of life - but it鈥檚 unexpectedly hard.
She鈥檚 the first dog we鈥檝e ever had who is not interested in food .
I鈥檓 thinking that a personal trainer is the way to go.
Seriously not interested in a prong collar, but will look into a Halti-style head leader- good idea.
 

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There are a whole lot of dogs who are not motivated by food so I have never used it as a training tool. You may get a small squeak toy and keep it in your pocket and squeak it when she ignores you it will work for awhile you need to make it fun to come back to you and to pay attention to you its good you are doing a good thing by attending class with her but as she is older now its going to take some time to undo some things you don't want her to do.
 

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Yes I think it will just take a bit longer because of her age. I would use a pinch collar on her. You do not correct or flip your wrist as one does with a chocker. I don't like chocker collars or flat collars for teaching because the dogs tend to pull. The slip lead is good too but I'm not real sure how it will work on a older dog who is use to pulling. The pinch collar will pinch when properly fitted on the dog. She may yelp the first one or two times but quickly learns not to pull. I've used harnesses also, the ones with the double clip, back and front are to me the best. You can try this place
The harness along with the leash they sell for it would be a good option. It has a double clip so it is clipped both to the front and back. I have not tried it but I've heard from others that it is mot helpful. Their customer service is very very good. I would talk to them before ordering and get some insight from them. I found them very helpful.
I also like some of the videos on line of Susan Garrett and Ian Dunbar. I find them helpful along with some of the older type trainers. I like their methods of teaching a dog a new behavior rather than trying to correct a old one. Kinda like replacing one with another.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes I think it will just take a bit longer because of her age. I would use a pinch collar on her. You do not correct or flip your wrist as one does with a chocker. I don't like chocker collars or flat collars for teaching because the dogs tend to pull. The slip lead is good too but I'm not real sure how it will work on a older dog who is use to pulling. The pinch collar will pinch when properly fitted on the dog. She may yelp the first one or two times but quickly learns not to pull. I've used harnesses also, the ones with the double clip, back and front are to me the best. You can try this place
The harness along with the leash they sell for it would be a good option. It has a double clip so it is clipped both to the front and back. I have not tried it but I've heard from others that it is mot helpful. Their customer service is very very good. I would talk to them before ordering and get some insight from them. I found them very helpful.
I also like some of the videos on line of Susan Garrett and Ian Dunbar. I find them helpful along with some of the older type trainers. I like their methods of teaching a dog a new behavior rather than trying to correct a old one. Kinda like replacing one with another.
Hi
I have a double- connection harness and accompanying lead.
I tried it out only once- will definitely have another go.
The head harness , Halti, I used yesterday again. It was uncommon for my girl, and hard to watch her be so uncomfortable.
I鈥檓 hesitant to use it as I read last night that these types of leads aren鈥檛 suitable for brachycephalic dogs -
 

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Disclaimer : not a trainer, no preferred gear, just a number of boxers over the years.

Not knowing her responsiveness to other commands, I would say if she has 4 1/2 years of doing things her way, then patience and persistence. Cannot expect major changes over night.

i have found over the years I like the 鈥淪it鈥 while their may be instances of being valuable, I find it useful for a sense of discipline that can be used almost anytime. If mine are a bit boisterous or needing to focus, I鈥檒l put them in a quick sit. Eventually they learn nothing else happens until I am happy with their sit, which is when they have calmed. Once they are then verbal praise, a pet, and if it was for feeding, then their bowls. Basically I use feeding as reenforcement because they alway get their meal as part of reward. Makani was probably just 9 or 10 weeks old when we started because he started jumping for his bowl, actually knocking one from my hand breaking it. Kekoa knows my focus is mostly on the young one and often gets away with simply lowering his hind end until I鈥檓 happy with the pup.

Food motivation - kinda funny. I鈥檇 say all mine have been to some extent, but only if they wanted. When Kekoa was a young pup I had him in AKC Good Citizen class. He did well, but we were having challenges with Sit -Staysoweekbefore the exam we staid after class for some 1 on 1. The instructors all used this homemade meat treat (which they sold prior to class). Although a bit hesitant, Kekoa performed as commended, but never once took the treat. At conclusion the instructor picked them all back up. I knew that he鈥檇 only take the treat if he wanted it, just like he鈥檇 only do the command if he wanted. I used to laugh, 4 or 4 repetitions and he was done, then look at me 鈥 I鈥檝e got this, Dad, why haven鈥檛 you?鈥 Of course the next week he passed without a mistep. The other extreme, our very 1st, a white boy was maybe 3-4 months old when I held out a steak bone and said Sit. Like I鈥檇 flipped a switch, he immediately did every trick he knew automatically. Wife and I could hardly contain ourselves.

But, back to you. Personally, I鈥檇 made the leash training more a long term objective, concentrate on undoing 4 1/2 years of getting her own way. Find the small things she likes to do and start doing them on Command. Just 2 or 3 interations, thru out the day. Make the puppy part of it, take turns who goes first. Probably a good chance the puppy will leash train first, but I鈥檝e seen the older follow a younger example.

good luck and have fun. Boxers love fun.
 

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Wennox said:
Hi
I have a double- connection harness and accompanying lead.
I tried it out only once- will definitely have another go.
The head harness , Halti, I used yesterday again. It was uncommon for my girl, and hard to watch her be so uncomfortable.
I鈥檓 hesitant to use it as I read last night that these types of leads aren鈥檛 suitable for brachycephalic dogs -
Well they would fit better on a "pointy," faced dog's, head and I would still not recommend them. A dog 's neck, is not as strong as a horse. And if something happens, say a charging dog perhaps?? And you try and pull your out of the way by using the leash?? You'd be pivoting the dog back by his face!

And I have seen a dog suffering from, what I can only "Assume," is "Psychology Damage?" From being trained/forced to wear one. It was another GSD owner, his dog was wearing a Halti, and Rocky was wearing, well his collar. We stopped to talk (from across) the street. I don't do meet and greets.

And asked about his Blk and Tan GSD, Rocky was Blk with a small white blaze. And this is where it get's interesting. As we talked, I looked back at Rocky for a second. He is just waiting politely for us to get going. But I observe, that he stand's quietly behind me with his head held high. Ear's up and pointed forward (as they always are.) He looked alert and quite just like you would "expect," a GSD to look.

I looked again at the other guy's GSD?? And his dog, never looked up?? His dog actually looked as embarrassed as I felt for him. I don't remember his ear's but my guest is they were folded back?? I have never seen a single GSD that presented that way. The guy did not seem to notice that his dog looked beat down?? He was just as calm and polite as my Rocky, and also walked well on leash. So he was "Good with that." But I saw more than he did ... apparently?? I thanked him for his time and we both went on our way.

I am not of a fan of harness either, myself. "Pro's don't use them (lest way's, non I would recommend) LE, does not use them the Military does not use them nor do Personnel Protection Dog Trainer's. So "I," always ask myself, what do they know, that I do not?? And usually the "problem," is not with the Dog, it's with me. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Disclaimer : not a trainer, no preferred gear, just a number of boxers over the years.

Not knowing her responsiveness to other commands, I would say if she has 4 1/2 years of doing things her way, then patience and persistence. Cannot expect major changes over night.

i have found over the years I like the 鈥淪it鈥 while their may be instances of being valuable, I find it useful for a sense of discipline that can be used almost anytime. If mine are a bit boisterous or needing to focus, I鈥檒l put them in a quick sit. Eventually they learn nothing else happens until I am happy with their sit, which is when they have calmed. Once they are then verbal praise, a pet, and if it was for feeding, then their bowls. Basically I use feeding as reenforcement because they alway get their meal as part of reward. Makani was probably just 9 or 10 weeks old when we started because he started jumping for his bowl, actually knocking one from my hand breaking it. Kekoa knows my focus is mostly on the young one and often gets away with simply lowering his hind end until I鈥檓 happy with the pup.

Food motivation - kinda funny. I鈥檇 say all mine have been to some extent, but only if they wanted. When Kekoa was a young pup I had him in AKC Good Citizen class. He did well, but we were having challenges with Sit -Staysoweekbefore the exam we staid after class for some 1 on 1. The instructors all used this homemade meat treat (which they sold prior to class). Although a bit hesitant, Kekoa performed as commended, but never once took the treat. At conclusion the instructor picked them all back up. I knew that he鈥檇 only take the treat if he wanted it, just like he鈥檇 only do the command if he wanted. I used to laugh, 4 or 4 repetitions and he was done, then look at me 鈥 I鈥檝e got this, Dad, why haven鈥檛 you?鈥 Of course the next week he passed without a mistep. The other extreme, our very 1st, a white boy was maybe 3-4 months old when I held out a steak bone and said Sit. Like I鈥檇 flipped a switch, he immediately did every trick he knew automatically. Wife and I could hardly contain ourselves.

But, back to you. Personally, I鈥檇 made the leash training more a long term objective, concentrate on undoing 4 1/2 years of getting her own way. Find the small things she likes to do and start doing them on Command. Just 2 or 3 interations, thru out the day. Make the puppy part of it, take turns who goes first. Probably a good chance the puppy will leash train first, but I鈥檝e seen the older follow a younger example.

good luck and have fun. Boxers love fun.
Thanks for this.
I want her to have fun -
I don鈥檛 want to her to lose her joy of life for the sake of suddenly trying to obedience train her.
She is pretty fabulous as she is, really.
I will take it a bit slower and appreciate the small steps we can both achieve together with love and persistence.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well they would fit better on a "pointy," faced dog's, head and I would still not recommend them. A dog 's neck, is not as strong as a horse. And if something happens, say a charging dog perhaps?? And you try and pull your out of the way by using the leash?? You'd be pivoting the dog back by his face!

And I have seen a dog suffering from, what I can only "Assume," is "Psychology Damage?" From being trained/forced to wear one. It was another GSD owner, his dog was wearing a Halti, and Rocky was wearing, well his collar. We stopped to talk (from across) the street. I don't do meet and greets.

And asked about his Blk and Tan GSD, Rocky was Blk with a small white blaze. And this is where it get's interesting. As we talked, I looked back at Rocky for a second. He is just waiting politely for us to get going. But I observe, that he stand's quietly behind me with his head held high. Ear's up and pointed forward (as they always are.) He looked alert and quite just like you would "expect," a GSD to look.

I looked again at the other guy's GSD?? And his dog, never looked up?? His dog actually looked as embarrassed as I felt for him. I don't remember his ear's but my guest is they were folded back?? I have never seen a single GSD that presented that way. The guy did not seem to notice that his dog looked beat down?? He was just as calm and polite as my Rocky, and also walked well on leash. So he was "Good with that." But I saw more than he did ... apparently?? I thanked him for his time and we both went on our way.

I am not of a fan of harness either, myself. "Pro's don't use them (lest way's, non I would recommend) LE, does not use them the Military does not use them nor do Personnel Protection Dog Trainer's. So "I," always ask myself, what do they know, that I do not?? And usually the "problem," is not with the Dog, it's with me. :)
Hello
Agree with everything you said, especially the last sentence.
I don鈥檛 want to damage her neck, throat or face, so I use a harness for walks. I鈥檓 not sure what else there to use.
What do you use- is it a special collar?
I think I will just commit to slow gentle progress - she trains well when off-leash at home.
It鈥檚 the great outdoors and being around others that is so distracting for her.
I did not continue socialization or walks after puppy school- we have a big open space on our shared property and she was running around a lot with her big Bro, until she decided to become a bolter.
She is a loving and sensitive soul, who especially loves playing with toys- she has never been a problem- I don鈥檛 want to make this a problem for her.

.Now I鈥檓 trying to learn the niceties of walking on a relaxed lead with her.
The hope is to be able to have day trips to great dog-friendly places with both dogs, one of whom is a new puppy, and my hubby and I.
 

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Hello
Agree with everything you said, especially the last sentence.
I don鈥檛 want to damage her neck, throat or face, so I use a harness for walks. I鈥檓 not sure what else there to use.
OK "if," you started to use a "Harness," early on?? That would be the source of your current issues. Engineering not withstanding, harnesses are designed for a dog to "Pull." If you use a "Harness," for trying lose leash walking?? You can't "guide or feel," the dog and thus you can't correct them?? They lead you follow??? The dog is in control, not you.

What do you use- is it a special collar?
Ok well, this is kind of a "hedge," of an answer perhaps?? Cuz I suppose the best answer is to use whatever tool work's best for you?? But that seems to have a bit of a fail. So Plan B, what do the "Pro's," use?? I'll see what they do and I'll do that! Is how I work.

Now explaining that bit a little further, would involve my (Formerly, Human Aggressive, Pack Fighting ... send you to the ER for getting in the way,) first Working Line GSD (Great Dog in the long run) but, I'll resist the temptation and stay on point. :)

I worked rescue and the only tool, they will literally hand you is a Slip Lead Leash! And all the volunteer's had them. But "none," of them could use them?? And the majority of the Boxer's they had were "horrible on leash!??

So they gave me custody of a Boxer with a "Fear of people issue??" And said be careful he pull's! And I said OK.

Now I had never seen a Slip Lead Leash, in my life?? But it looked interesting?? My Struddell who was the best trained lose leash dog I have ever seen in real life. Anyone could walk. And I trained her with a regular collar and a flat leash. So to answer what I used in the beginning, was a regular collar and flat leash and with that I could feel, tell what she was doing and pulling, nor actually correcting her was ever an issue??

But this Boxer was a "puller" or so they said ??I looked at the leash saw the little tabby thing that kept it snug?? And said OK, let's try this?? I put the SSL on him high and snug. And at that point ... I did "nothing," I kept my mouth shut, no treat's, no input, nothing I just waited.

And Tic Tac Toe ... did what he had always done, he tried to go forward and pull like a freight train! But this time, something was different?? I had not moved, so he had not either beyond the leash?? And so far I had not done "anything," I just held the leash.

If he tried to press forward, he felt pressure?? If he stopped, there was nothing?? OK then ... what to do?? He could not move forward, but if he stopped trying that ... "nothing happened but the "Pressure was gone??" Sooo what to do?? He stopped pulling, and then confused?? And still hearing nothing from me ... he Sat Down! Now at that point, I was stunned but I still stayed quite, he sat for another minuet, and then looked up at me for direction?? And at that point I looked down and said "OK." And off we went, it was a great day and he walked as well on leash for "me," as did my own well trained Struddell! And I have used a SLL ever since.

But admittedly they do seem to be a "tricky tool to use for most people?? There is however a "Work Around," a Martingale Collar, and it while it is not a "Training Collar," whatsoever, it can/does kind of function as one, depending on what you do "apparently??" It is designed to keep slippery headed dog's from chucking there collar's at will.


LOL, well it look's the industry has caught up to me! But there you go.

I think I will just commit to slow gentle progress - she trains well when off-leash at home.
It鈥檚 the great outdoors and being around others that is so distracting for her.
I did not continue socialization or walks after puppy school- we have a big open space on our shared property and she was running around a lot with her big Bro, until she decided to become a bolter.
She is a loving and sensitive soul, who especially loves playing with toys- she has never been a problem- I don鈥檛 want to make this a problem for her.

Now I鈥檓 trying to learn the niceties of walking on a relaxed lead with her.
The hope is to be able to have day trips to great dog-friendly places with both dogs, one of whom is a new puppy, and my hubby and I.
LOL ... outstanding!! Well there you go! Your moment of clarity!
Without that your subject, to following the "trick of the week" as it were.

You don't ask yourself, "what is wrong with this stupid dog??" Rather you ask "What am I doing wrong???"

And from there you can look for answer! Now for me that was easy! Way back in the day ... I had no idea what a Dog Forum was?? And I had serious freaking, send you to the ER for stiches issues. But he did not hurt another dog or person outside of well me or Gunther so ... "Good Enough!"

And I had heard of owner's spending thousand's on rehabbing there dog's and it was all dollar's down a "Rathole," and then the dog was "PTS!" I was not doing that! I would "figure it out," whatever it took.

I'll figure it out myself ... I just had to figure out how?? And I did not know about Youtube at the time, nor who to look for anyway?? So I went with what I know?? For people issues ... I "altered ," an article from "Leerburgh," "Who Pet's My Puppy or Dog??"

With my Stru, if someone wanted to pet her ... I would always, say "yes please do!" But you know ... what if with Rocky instead of yes, what if I said "No," and modded my approach to enforce that??

Well, it worked with Rocky my GSD and it worked later with Tic Tac Toe! And Tic Tac Toe, was freaking epic! The last place you would want to walk a dog that pulled and had a fear of people issues ... would be in a crowd of thousand's!! :)

At anyrate ... I did it, with Tic Tak Toe and my Rocky?? And it took me longer, "year's," to understand what I had done then it did to do it?? But in a nut shell, I did what "Balanced Trainer's," do but by accident. Those are the guy's that can and do "Successfully," reform aggressive dog's. They understand them and they don't abuse them! Look for a "Trainer, that deal's with "Aggressive Dog's" and you'll be fine.

My Rocky did not like people, and he detested toddler's! And that was a fact "proven under very carefully controlled condition's!" But under a "Crap Happens Situation," when he was confronted by the unexpected appearance of a "Toddler," and no "Daddy," in site??" He "broke," command and made a "Good Choice!" But hey that is another story. :)

Aww well long way of saying. You have made a "Good Call," for your dog. And the Martingale Collar, is not a "gimmick." There just "over selling," it now cuz others have figured out how well it can work! But you can use one on your puppy, but you do need to take it off, when you are not there! :)

Long way of me saying, "Good Call," on your part, take a breath relax and think about going forward! And without going on again ... the treat thing? That is not "useful for walking!" "Treat's" are used "Correctly," for "Shaping and Luring," a dog into position! Now that "crap," sounds vague and nebulous, to JQP?? I know but the "IPO," crowd talks about that all the time.

LOL, well they do actually know what they are talking about! My Bella (Boxer/Pitt) is my first "Heel Flip Dog!" And that is this.:

Bella is my first "non puppy," and she has been a "serious," challenge for me! So with the "Recall," thing and "Distraction's," I might not be that far in front of you?? But the heel flip ... yep I trained that! Treat's are really just another "tool," and they have to be used correctly. :)

But you do have to know how to "train," the basic understanding of what you want them to do, "before" you can even think about adding distraction's!

I'm refining stuff with her. Sit and not adding Stay, is new to me?? And to my surprise she held it, on one occasion with a Hugh distraction for her!! A quad, runner came between me and her unexpectedly?? IE "Crap Happens!" I was to far away to do anything!

So I had to watch and not "move!" Dog's are visual and they cue on your slightest movement's! The Quad went between me and her and when it was gone, I signaled OK! She did good but yeah that was not my plan. :)

But you can get there, you just got to think it thru :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OK "if," you started to use a "Harness," early on?? That would be the source of your current issues. Engineering not withstanding, harnesses are designed for a dog to "Pull." If you use a "Harness," for trying lose leash walking?? You can't "guide or feel," the dog and thus you can't correct them?? They lead you follow??? The dog is in control, not you.

Ok well, this is kind of a "hedge," of an answer perhaps?? Cuz I suppose the best answer is to use whatever tool work's best for you?? But that seems to have a bit of a fail. So Plan B, what do the "Pro's," use?? I'll see what they do and I'll do that! Is how I work.

Now explaining that bit a little further, would involve my (Formerly, Human Aggressive, Pack Fighting ... send you to the ER for getting in the way,) first Working Line GSD (Great Dog in the long run) but, I'll resist the temptation and stay on point. :)

I worked rescue and the only tool, they will literally hand you is a Slip Lead Leash! And all the volunteer's had them. But "none," of them could use them?? And the majority of the Boxer's they had were "horrible on leash!??

So they gave me custody of a Boxer with a "Fear of people issue??" And said be careful he pull's! And I said OK.

Now I had never seen a Slip Lead Leash, in my life?? But it looked interesting?? My Struddell who was the best trained lose leash dog I have ever seen in real life. Anyone could walk. And I trained her with a regular collar and a flat leash. So to answer what I used in the beginning, was a regular collar and flat leash and with that I could feel, tell what she was doing and pulling, nor actually correcting her was ever an issue??

But this Boxer was a "puller" or so they said ??I looked at the leash saw the little tabby thing that kept it snug?? And said OK, let's try this?? I put the SSL on him high and snug. And at that point ... I did "nothing," I kept my mouth shut, no treat's, no input, nothing I just waited.

And Tic Tac Toe ... did what he had always done, he tried to go forward and pull like a freight train! But this time, something was different?? I had not moved, so he had not either beyond the leash?? And so far I had not done "anything," I just held the leash.

If he tried to press forward, he felt pressure?? If he stopped, there was nothing?? OK then ... what to do?? He could not move forward, but if he stopped trying that ... "nothing happened but the "Pressure was gone??" Sooo what to do?? He stopped pulling, and then confused?? And still hearing nothing from me ... he Sat Down! Now at that point, I was stunned but I still stayed quite, he sat for another minuet, and then looked up at me for direction?? And at that point I looked down and said "OK." And off we went, it was a great day and he walked as well on leash for "me," as did my own well trained Struddell! And I have used a SLL ever since.

But admittedly they do seem to be a "tricky tool to use for most people?? There is however a "Work Around," a Martingale Collar, and it while it is not a "Training Collar," whatsoever, it can/does kind of function as one, depending on what you do "apparently??" It is designed to keep slippery headed dog's from chucking there collar's at will.


LOL, well it look's the industry has caught up to me! But there you go.

LOL ... outstanding!! Well there you go! Your moment of clarity!
Without that your subject, to following the "trick of the week" as it were.

You don't ask yourself, "what is wrong with this stupid dog??" Rather you ask "What am I doing wrong???"

And from there you can look for answer! Now for me that was easy! Way back in the day ... I had no idea what a Dog Forum was?? And I had serious freaking, send you to the ER for stiches issues. But he did not hurt another dog or person outside of well me or Gunther so ... "Good Enough!"

And I had heard of owner's spending thousand's on rehabbing there dog's and it was all dollar's down a "Rathole," and then the dog was "PTS!" I was not doing that! I would "figure it out," whatever it took.

I'll figure it out myself ... I just had to figure out how?? And I did not know about Youtube at the time, nor who to look for anyway?? So I went with what I know?? For people issues ... I "altered ," an article from "Leerburgh," "Who Pet's My Puppy or Dog??"

With my Stru, if someone wanted to pet her ... I would always, say "yes please do!" But you know ... what if with Rocky instead of yes, what if I said "No," and modded my approach to enforce that??

Well, it worked with Rocky my GSD and it worked later with Tic Tac Toe! And Tic Tac Toe, was freaking epic! The last place you would want to walk a dog that pulled and had a fear of people issues ... would be in a crowd of thousand's!! :)

At anyrate ... I did it, with Tic Tak Toe and my Rocky?? And it took me longer, "year's," to understand what I had done then it did to do it?? But in a nut shell, I did what "Balanced Trainer's," do but by accident. Those are the guy's that can and do "Successfully," reform aggressive dog's. They understand them and they don't abuse them! Look for a "Trainer, that deal's with "Aggressive Dog's" and you'll be fine.

My Rocky did not like people, and he detested toddler's! And that was a fact "proven under very carefully controlled condition's!" But under a "Crap Happens Situation," when he was confronted by the unexpected appearance of a "Toddler," and no "Daddy," in site??" He "broke," command and made a "Good Choice!" But hey that is another story. :)

Aww well long way of saying. You have made a "Good Call," for your dog. And the Martingale Collar, is not a "gimmick." There just "over selling," it now cuz others have figured out how well it can work! But you can use one on your puppy, but you do need to take it off, when you are not there! :)

Long way of me saying, "Good Call," on your part, take a breath relax and think about going forward! And without going on again ... the treat thing? That is not "useful for walking!" "Treat's" are used "Correctly," for "Shaping and Luring," a dog into position! Now that "crap," sounds vague and nebulous, to JQP?? I know but the "IPO," crowd talks about that all the time.

LOL, well they do actually know what they are talking about! My Bella (Boxer/Pitt) is my first "Heel Flip Dog!" And that is this.:

Bella is my first "non puppy," and she has been a "serious," challenge for me! So with the "Recall," thing and "Distraction's," I might not be that far in front of you?? But the heel flip ... yep I trained that! Treat's are really just another "tool," and they have to be used correctly. :)

But you do have to know how to "train," the basic understanding of what you want them to do, "before" you can even think about adding distraction's!

I'm refining stuff with her. Sit and not adding Stay, is new to me?? And to my surprise she held it, on one occasion with a Hugh distraction for her!! A quad, runner came between me and her unexpectedly?? IE "Crap Happens!" I was to far away to do anything!

So I had to watch and not "move!" Dog's are visual and they cue on your slightest movement's! The Quad went between me and her and when it was gone, I signaled OK! She did good but yeah that was not my plan. :)

But you can get there, you just got to think it thru :)
Thanks. I appreciate your insight.
Great video too.
 

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Thanks, but I have to explain a bit more about that clip and why I chose it. Because "if," you can accomplish it?? You will understand what "Luring and shaping a behaviour, actually means?? It's IPO, talk and those guy's say that all the time! :)

Now full disclosure, a "Trainer on here," saw the clip and he said it was "confusing," and he doubted folks could get it?? And I would say ... he would know! But I like it because, well I did it. My Bella is my first "heel flip dog." She is also my first "non hand picked, prima donna puppy," just your average dog that does not know crap. :)

But by training that ... I learned more "stuff." Shaping and luring no longer sounded like "Voodoo??" And doing that gave me a break from focusing on what she could not do.

Instead of constantly focusing on the negative, sigh lack of reliable recall and distractions. I did something I could achieve. And being able to make some "progress," encourages you to move forward!

Cuz you know if you "suck," at everything, it gets depressing! And when I say my "Bella," is only slightly in front of you?? That is not an "overstatement!" I made a huge mistake with her in the beginning??" Training Down out the gate with a new dog?? And in one of his lectures "Larry Krhon," explained "why," you don't do that??

But and where you are right now. I was obsessing on what I could not do that I could do with my other dog's?? I had to "rethink, refocus and let some things go for the moment. Achieve, some level of success and get back to the "issues," later.

And I did that with the "Heel Flip!" And I was not a "treat guy!" Never used them before?? But it worked for that and it works
"apparently," for recall??

So just saying give yourself a break, train something different, get that done and go back to the leash thing, Just a thought, :)
 

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Hello
I鈥檝e just started taking my 41/2 year old girl to obedience training (馃お)
She is not motivated AT ALL by food, and just ignores me in class.

We don鈥檛 feed her before class, but she鈥檚 a picky eater at the best of times.
She loves all of the other dogs and people and is completely 100% distracted when we are there.
She pulls like anything on the lead. We are in the process of trialling several 芦 no-pull 禄 harnesses, and I鈥檓 trying to learn loose-lead walking with her - the lack of food as a training tool makes it all very hard.
She鈥檚 a gentle and loving girl and a lovely dog to live with.

We have a puppy again, and would like to take them out and about with us, so I鈥檓 trying to learn obedience and how to control her on a lead.

There are so many places that we like that let well-behaved dogs visit now.

I don鈥檛 think she鈥檚 too old for this.

We haven鈥檛 done this earlier with her as we should have. Life really got in the way. She did attend Puppy School , but that鈥檚 about it.


Anyone have any helpful input to help train her?

Just a couple quick questions:
1) I don't want this to sound bad but... is your older pup fat?
I find some times when a owner says their dogs not very food motivated it's because they are being over fed.
2) When you said shes not food motivated, are you training her with you food or with treats?
3) Does your older girl free feed, meaning is there food available all day?
 

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Just a couple quick questions:
1) I don't want this to sound bad but... is your older pup fat?
I find some times when a owner says their dogs not very food motivated it's because they are being over fed.
2) When you said shes not food motivated, are you training her with you food or with treats?
3) Does your older girl free feed, meaning is there food available all day?
The problem "child" is 4 1/2 year's old now, So this has been going on for quite awhile??

And most likely I did a "poor job of explaining where I was "trying to go??" The "Walking and the "treat's," I view as to "separate issue's??" I don't use "treat's," for training a "dog to walk," properly?? If that can be done?? I have no idea how??

I was going by what I did. And with my "Bella," and lot's of work to done still. I was "obsessed," with her "total lack of recall!! Having to deal with her on a twenty leash ... all the time, ticked me off! Always failing at trying the same thing over and over again, get's old! So do something different??

My mistake was "assuming," that a "puppy" and a one year old were the same thing?? But not so much?? So I did "something different. I quit focusing on what she could not do. And focused on what she could do?? Hence the use of "treat's," and the "Heel Flip!" And yes I know you say ... it's hard to interpret and understand?? But hey I did it and I don't think, I'm special?? And Bella ... LOL certainly not!

But working on the "Heel Flip," got me out of the loop I was stuck in?? I'd never used before with a dog?? But hey I'll forget "what she can't do and focus on this?? And that gave both of us a "break." Well it "worked!" I did that and we went back to the "off leash recall stuff??" Well she is "still," not as good as "my other dog's??" But I no longer "need,"the PIA, 20 foot leash!

Now the lack of "Recall and the "Heel Flip." are in no way related?? But working on that took me out of my "Melt Down Mode?? I got that done and learned something new "luring and shaping behaviour??" And after that, then went back to the "original problem." Lack of Recall??

And well is not as good as my other dog's?? We go on daily outing's in because of where I live. Off leash outing's several times a week! I can call her and she "recall's!" And when she recall's I pat either thigh and she does the "Heel Flip!

So back on point ... I was"not," trying to drive the OP towards, "Treat's as such??" I was just trying to focus her "away," form constant failure?? As that get's old?? So you know do something else?? The loose leash walking thing is "important!" If you can do at least that, everything else becomes simpler! But if one is struggling with that?? Maybe do "something different??" Gain some degree of success, and then go back to the "originall problem," with a different dog???

Figuring out the "Treat," thing won't help with the "walking," as far as I know?? So sorry if I messed that up?? :(
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just a couple quick questions:
1) I don't want this to sound bad but... is your older pup fat?
I find some times when a owner says their dogs not very food motivated it's because they are being over fed.
2) When you said shes not food motivated, are you training her with you food or with treats?
3) Does your older girl free feed, meaning is there food available all day?
Hello
No, she鈥榮 on the thin side- if she goes more than 40hours or so without eating, I鈥榣l hand feed her.
I鈥榲e had her to our vet on several occasions for check ups about this. Both of our dogs are raw fed twice per day now- I鈥檝e just cut the puppy down to two meals per day- and active, with beautiful muscles.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
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Hello
No, she鈥榮 on the thin side- if she goes more than 40hours or so without eating, I鈥榣l hand feed her.
I鈥榲e had her to our vet on several occasions for check ups about this. Both of our dogs are raw fed twice per day now- I鈥檝e just cut the puppy down to two meals per day- and active, with beautiful muscles.
A9DBF0D1-CEBB-4FFA-86AC-77959C510CCB.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The problem "child" is 4 1/2 year's old now, So this has been going on for quite awhile??

And most likely I did a "poor job of explaining where I was "trying to go??" The "Walking and the "treat's," I view as to "separate issue's??" I don't use "treat's," for training a "dog to walk," properly?? If that can be done?? I have no idea how??

I was going by what I did. And with my "Bella," and lot's of work to done still. I was "obsessed," with her "total lack of recall!! Having to deal with her on a twenty leash ... all the time, ticked me off! Always failing at trying the same thing over and over again, get's old! So do something different??

My mistake was "assuming," that a "puppy" and a one year old were the same thing?? But not so much?? So I did "something different. I quit focusing on what she could not do. And focused on what she could do?? Hence the use of "treat's," and the "Heel Flip!" And yes I know you say ... it's hard to interpret and understand?? But hey I did it and I don't think, I'm special?? And Bella ... LOL certainly not!

But working on the "Heel Flip," got me out of the loop I was stuck in?? I'd never used before with a dog?? But hey I'll forget "what she can't do and focus on this?? And that gave both of us a "break." Well it "worked!" I did that and we went back to the "off leash recall stuff??" Well she is "still," not as good as "my other dog's??" But I no longer "need,"the PIA, 20 foot leash!

Now the lack of "Recall and the "Heel Flip." are in no way related?? But working on that took me out of my "Melt Down Mode?? I got that done and learned something new "luring and shaping behaviour??" And after that, then went back to the "original problem." Lack of Recall??

And well is not as good as my other dog's?? We go on daily outing's in because of where I live. Off leash outing's several times a week! I can call her and she "recall's!" And when she recall's I pat either thigh and she does the "Heel Flip!

So back on point ... I was"not," trying to drive the OP towards, "Treat's as such??" I was just trying to focus her "away," form constant failure?? As that get's old?? So you know do something else?? The loose leash walking thing is "important!" If you can do at least that, everything else becomes simpler! But if one is struggling with that?? Maybe do "something different??" Gain some degree of success, and then go back to the "originall problem," with a different dog???

Figuring out the "Treat," thing won't help with the "walking," as far as I know?? So sorry if I messed that up?? :(
Hello
I got your point- it鈥檚 a good one. I found you easy to understand in all instances.
I like your suggestion to try something else to have a success, then go back to what still needs work.
I鈥榲e stopped trying to train with treats for her- no point. Using lots of praise and working on leadership.
 
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