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The vet put Ethel on some anxiety meds while we work with her on her not being terrified of going outside at night time and allergy shots every 4-6 weeks that cost 70$ but hey if it works! She’s been in both meds since last Monday as her allergies were bad her skin is still healing but I just noticed this any ideas what it could be?



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Hmm well I am not help with the little bumps but the "Anxiety Meds" and the terrified of going outside at night?? With that stuff, I think I got your back??

What are you doing now to deal with this issue?? And you know ... not going outside at night ... would avoid the issue but it's not much of a solution. And most likely if she has "issues" with that ... it will bleed over into other areas of life.
 

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I get her outside at dusk before it gets totally dark out. Will play until it’s dark and continue with toys and treats! Also with walks we are in a new housing development so there is loud noises and people during the day I’m just trying to expose her to all things so that she’s not affraid but trying not to do something that she feels like she can’t escape. It’s been a learning experience for both of us it’s been a lot easier at night now that fireworks are mostly over! If anyone has any advise I would gladly take it as I am open to all things


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Ok ... I understand but yet again I have to ask, because in thousands of post ... I have never heard of this particular issue???

Can you actually see a "preciviable change" in her behaviour when it is dark outside??? I have never seen a dog that cares about darkness?? My Boxer Struddell certainly did not care and Rocky and I were, (my GSD were) "midnight only" walkers for a bit ... people issues with him, nother story.
 

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No help on the bump, have never seen anything like that before.

Never heard of a fear of the dark. Could you possibly take a couple days a week just before dark, bring her out, maybe sit in a beach chair and just relax while it gets dark? Don't talk to her, give her treats, etc. just sit down relax and have her next to you. When you are ready to go inside, if she acts like she wants wants to bolt for the door to your house, I would turn around and sit back down. This would all be done with her leashed.

She might start to take cues from you that you enjoy being out in the dark and start relaxing.

I'm just guessing on this one.
 

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No help on the bump, have never seen anything like that before.

Never heard of a fear of the dark. Could you possibly take a couple days a week just before dark, bring her out, maybe sit in a beach chair and just relax while it gets dark? Don't talk to her, give her treats, etc. just sit down relax and have her next to you. When you are ready to go inside, if she acts like she wants wants to bolt for the door to your house, I would turn around and sit back down. This would all be done with her leashed.

She might start to take cues from you that you enjoy being out in the dark and start relaxing.

I'm just guessing on this one.
And of course we are pretty much on the same page! But of course ... i am more seriously, analy detail oriented, my bad??? But yes what you describe is "Sit on the Dog" And by and large ... that is where one would start. But not at night at first, with this dog.

Dogs default to know behaviours ... ie "Show them what you want first" and if they know nothing else, they will default to what they know. :)

With "Sit on the dog" I have heard of only owner that had an issue and she was using a fifteen foot leash, WTH?? Her dog freaked out and she had no clue as to what to do??? I have no idea as to why she felt a 155 foot leash was a great idea??? Aww well, you just can't some people, I suppose???
 

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And of course we are pretty much on the same page! But of course ... i am more seriously, analy detail oriented, my bad??? But yes what you describe is "Sit on the Dog" And by and large ... that is where one would start. But not at night at first, with this dog.

Dogs default to know behaviours ... ie "Show them what you want first" and if they know nothing else, they will default to what they know. :)

With "Sit on the dog" I have heard of only owner that had an issue and she was using a fifteen foot leash, WTH?? Her dog freaked out and she had no clue as to what to do??? I have no idea as to why she felt a 155 foot leash was a great idea??? Aww well, you just can't some people, I suppose???
Exactly my thought process. You're right though Chip, should probably do it inside 1st and get her conditioned before they move outside.

15 ft leash?? lol Thats pretty much the opposite of sit on the dog. Thats I'm going to let my dog wander to wherever it wants to go.lol
 

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Ok ... I understand but yet again I have to ask, because in thousands of post ... I have never heard of this particular issue???



Can you actually see a "preciviable change" in her behaviour when it is dark outside??? I have never seen a dog that cares about darkness?? My Boxer Struddell certainly did not care and Rocky and I were, (my GSD were) "midnight only" walkers for a bit ... people issues with him, nother story.


It’s really odd she has absolutely no problem going outside all day long and when it starts getting darker out side and I open the door to go potty she gets nervous tucks her tail usually tries to run away either to her kennel or to my bed! She trembles! We live by a corn field so the stalks rub on each other and the grain bins run somethings (but do the same during the day) but it’s like she’s hyper aware like because it’s darker and can’t see as far her hearing senses are heighten? I have no idea! It’s always been bad but since the Fourth of July (fireworks) it’s been terrible! She peed in my bed twice due to those and she is potty trained pretty well but she is a nervous pee-er it hasn’t gotten better since fireworks have stopped in the sense of I can actually get her to go potty as before she wouldn’t or she would all over by the door trying to get inside


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It’s really odd she has absolutely no problem going outside all day long and when it starts getting darker out side and I open the door to go potty she gets nervous tucks her tail usually tries to run away either to her kennel or to my bed! She trembles! We live by a corn field so the stalks rub on each other and the grain bins run somethings (but do the same during the day) but it’s like she’s hyper aware like because it’s darker and can’t see as far her hearing senses are heighten? I have no idea! It’s always been bad but since the Fourth of July (fireworks) it’s been terrible! She peed in my bed twice due to those and she is potty trained pretty well but she is a nervous pee-er it hasn’t gotten better since fireworks have stopped in the sense of I can actually get her to go potty as before she wouldn’t or she would all over by the door trying to get inside


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Corrections as I apparently can’t type and talk! I meant that it has gotten better since fireworks has stopped and she is potty trained!


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Alright.. the simple way to fix the problem. Start feeding her dinner outside at night.
Forget treats and toys for now. While "sit on the dog" could work.. it would take a good bit of time.
The easy thing is to create a positive association with the dark and the sounds.
Once it gets dark, put her on a leash, grab her food and walk out side and let her eat.
Start with letting her eat from the bowl.. Once she does that without worrying about the dark ( a few days or a week), start hand feeding her if some OB command, give it a few weeks or so and she won't care it's dark.
If at first she decides she doesn't want to eat out side just put the food away and try again the next night. she will decide eating outside is better then not eating. And it won't take long for her to be like "it's dark, it's time to eat, lets go!"
 

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It’s really odd she has absolutely no problem going outside all day long and when it starts getting darker out side and I open the door to go potty she gets nervous tucks her tail usually tries to run away either to her kennel or to my bed! She trembles! We live by a corn field so the stalks rub on each other and the grain bins run somethings (but do the same during the day) but it’s like she’s hyper aware like because it’s darker and can’t see as far her hearing senses are heighten? I have no idea! It’s always been bad but since the Fourth of July (fireworks) it’s been terrible! She peed in my bed twice due to those and she is potty trained pretty well but she is a nervous pee-er it hasn’t gotten better since fireworks have stopped in the sense of I can actually get her to go potty as before she wouldn’t or she would all over by the door trying to get inside


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Aww, OK I have not seen this issue before but now ... it makes sense!!

Fourth of July and when do fireworks happen ... at Night! Dogs don't do calendars, so as far as she knows, that crazy crap is likely to happen, every time she steps out "night???" So now ... it makes sense. :)

So now we can proceed! And first step and speaking as a "quasi" PRO. Is she should be Crated at night!

Now most likely that would entail a degree of "difficulty" and sleepless night for couple of days and mostly the "concept of Correcting her in the Crate for misbehaving???"

But if you sent her off to a proper board and train ... that is what happen! That info is just so you know. Being completely impartial ... I have to say that. But ... I'm a sucker for the girls ... so "assuming" Crating is not your first choice, it most likely means there will be a "trade off in "rehab" time??? I don't know??

I tend to use a lot of words and sigh ... long detailed explanations! But to be brief, there are just three things you should do.

1) Walk her
2) Train the "Place Command"
3) And as s Matt alluded to ... do "Sit on the Dog."

Now there are some "adjustments" I would make based on her particular issue but those three things are what all the "Pro's" when dealing with dogs with "issues."

"If" this works ... you will see a difference in your dog in weeks, if not days?? If you don't ... well most likely you will be looking at drug therapy for years and dealing with a fearful dog for her whole life?? So let's not let that happen!. :(

Now I understand that right now none of this "Crap" means anything to you??? But ... I got it covered so settle back and do some reading.

First the "Walking thing" and why exactly???

And on that one in particular ... I would time the walks so that it is "day time" when you leave for walks and just starting to get dark when you head for home. Build up to that also but, the Walking thing is extremely important! That is how your dog learns that she can trust "You!! :)

I learned that particular lesson ... the hard way! :cry:


Next is "Anxiety Issues" in general and Jeff Gellman (At Solid k9Training) in particular has an article on dealing with anxiety issues in general. But I think that thread will help you better understand what you dealing with???

https://www.boxerforums.com/behavioral-issues/181570-separation-anxiety-shut-up-dog.html


And finally ... "The rest of the story." :
https://www.boxerforums.com/training/183298-fearful-anxious-flat-crazy-place-command.html

No drugs, no harsh corrections ... your building a "Bond of Trust" between you and your dog. If when she truly trust "YOU" know of the other crap will matter.

Go over that stuff and you will be in a better position to ask question, I tend to think?? :)
 

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Tiff, You have gotten some good advise already. I like the part of going outside just relaxing, letting it get dark and feeding her. If I remember correct this is the rescue dog that would run and hide into her crate. Is that going any better? How long have you had her now? I hope the meds will help her allergies.
 

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Alright.. the simple way to fix the problem. Start feeding her dinner outside at night.
Forget treats and toys for now. While "sit on the dog" could work.. it would take a good bit of time.
I will grant that "sit on the dog" is most likely "not" the most "efficient method" to get the dog over this issue?? And yeah if the dog won't go out at night to "potty" that is a problem?? And yep just doing "Sit on The Dog" alone" would be rather "time consuming??"

But this is not an either/or situation?? The Op can and should do both! And yes ... "feeding the dog in the Dark" will more rapidly address the "current issue at hand" granted. But she can "also" do "Sit on the Dog" to address the underlying "issues" also, as apparently ... the dog is a rescue???

The dog does not know the OP?? As far as the dog is concerned ... where she is now ... is just a bigger kennel??? "I don't know you, I don't know this place ... why should I care about want you want??" "Sit on the DOg" helps to break down those walls. No treats, no talk .... "Nothing" one just "Sit's" on the leash a (six foot leash, I have to say that cause someone messed that up??) That exercise ... helps the dog to "decompress and adapt, to it's new environment. There is "Zero" pressure put on the dog. So no food or treats for this. You and I dog ... will just "Sit Here" and do "nothing!"

It is a very old technique, and when I first became aware of it ... I immediately saw the value of it to dog with issues. But you know ... if my dog has no issues?? Why should I do this ... was the question I asked of "Ballifi" on GSDfroum. Mondo ring/PPD Mal guy ... the real deal.:)

And his reply ... was, "he has all clients, do this exercise with there dogs. It helps to build a stronger "bond of Trust" between dog and owner!" Good enough for him, good enough for me. :)

Time ... is not really factor for me?? As I'm just a "pet guy" so however long it takes ... is however long it takes???But this is not a case of I'll do this and not that?? The OP should do "both!" But that said ... yeah your suggestion does seem like a more rapid/viable option for the this issue.:)

The easy thing is to create a positive association with the dark and the sounds.
Once it gets dark, put her on a leash, grab her food and walk out side and let her eat.
Start with letting her eat from the bowl.. Once she does that without worrying about the dark ( a few days or a week), start hand feeding her if some OB command, give it a few weeks or so and she won't care it's dark.
If at first she decides she doesn't want to eat out side just put the food away and try again the next night. she will decide eating outside is better then not eating. And it won't take long for her to be like "it's dark, it's time to eat, lets go!"
LOL ... well for what it's worth??? I don't disagree! :)
In fact if the OP chooses this approach ... I would add only ... don't feed her that morning! If she is good and hungry?? She is much more likely to ignore the Dark! It's a good call!

But if she is going to go that route?? Then it's all in or not at all. Take her out as described put the food down and say "Nothing" no touching , no coaching nothing! Let her figure it out??? Give her, 15 minutes and if she won't eat??
Put the food away and try again the next day!

Now I'm not a Pro ... so I can "speculate" on timelines?? And I "feel" fairly certain, that "Three days" is about as long as she'd be willing to hold off on eating?? By day three if she still won't eat in the dark, then it's time to regroup but I "doubt that would happen???"
 

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I used this booklet to help decondition fear, and aggression, in a dog. It was really easy to understand, and you just had to be very patient. We'd just start out for a walk on the bike path, but if I read any anxiety in his posture we just turned around and came back. There was no praising or petting involved. I didn't really talk at all, but had to make sure my anticipating his reaction didn't start one.


http://www.nicolewilde.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/BARKfeararticle.pdf
 

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I used this booklet to help decondition fear, and aggression, in a dog. It was really easy to understand, and you just had to be very patient. We'd just start out for a walk on the bike path, but if I read any anxiety in his posture we just turned around and came back. There was no praising or petting involved. I didn't really talk at all, but had to make sure my anticipating his reaction didn't start one.


http://www.nicolewilde.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/BARKfeararticle.pdf
Nicole Wilde??? Well that is a blast from the past for me!! She is one of the few ... if only "Behaviourist" I have any use for. Most of "them" are "Click and Treat" types and if a cookie won't solve the "issue" PTS will! "Behaviourist as a general rule ... don't do "aggression well??"

If a "Cookie Won't Fit It PTS will!" "Boxer World" is full of them! Good luck to any Boxer owner that has "serious issues" and winds up there ... I was not a good fit, with that crowd. :)

But yep, I'm familiar with Nicole ... I actually combined her advise and "Leerburghs" (with a more aggressive spin on keeping people out of Rocky's face) to solve his issues!

See the second link here.:
https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

And yes ... you are correct ... hands off and keep your mouth shut! An occasional "Good Boy/Girl and Pat on the head"is more that enough! It's the little things ... that make a big difference! Thanks for the link. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thank you for all the responses! I will continue to go out at dusk and sit with her but add the leash as well. You all gave me some really good advice and I’m still reading some of the links! I’ve never heard of the “sit on the dog” but it makes sense to me!


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Thank you for all the responses! I will continue to go out at dusk and sit with her but add the leash as well. You all gave me some really good advice and I’m still reading some of the links! I’ve never heard of the “sit on the dog” but it makes sense to me!


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I would try the food thing that bte2 suggested and then maybe incorporate "sit on the dog" after she gets comfortable eating in the dark outside.

I have had success using both of those methods. Food will most likely will be the quicker fix, you will need a bit more time for "sit on the dog".

Here is a link to "sit on the dog" that I followed word for word. It worked for me with some indoor issues my guy had as a puppy.
Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
 

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Thank you for all the responses! I will continue to go out at dusk and sit with her but add the leash as well. You all gave me some really good advice and I’m still reading some of the links! I’ve never heard of the “sit on the dog” but it makes sense to me!


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LOL well few are aware of that particular technique??? Most likely "old Stuff??" But the ones that do it ... swear by it! The problem with is ... that most owners tend to "feel" it would be a waste of time because ... you aren't doing anything???

But that is how it works! No stay, no down, no treat (for this) ... you say nothing! Just stop and sit!

And most likely on the first outing ... your dog will "expect" to go into freak out mode??? But if you just go out the front door at Dusk and stop??? That's gonna cause a "reset" ie WTH is this???

And I can't say what her reaction will be to the first attempt??/ She just might freak the he$$ out?? If that happens ... your gonna have to make a "judgement call??" If your a "Pro" ... you'd say screw it is what it is and "this is what we are going to do dog so ... get over it! But if your JQP average Pet Owner and your causing your dog stress ... your most likely gonna bail???

I don't know?? But the reasoning behind doing this ... is "sound!" And the goal for this ... is 30 minuets. If that can be done in one shot??? I can't say??
But if she freaks the he$$ out your gonna have to such it up and wait until she is "quite" for at least five minuets before calling day.

If she throws a big enough, fit to cause you to abandon trying ... then she wins. Pretty much that simple. :)

Now that said ... BTE2's suggestion of feeding her at night out front ... and yep mostly ... it's gonna be a much faster solution!! And the value to "speed" is that because the more a dog "practices" a bad behavior ... the better at it they get!!

So if you go with that plan ... I'd not feed her the first day, you try this. And you the first time eating in the dark ... with no feeding during the day??? She may still not eat??? But you put the food down give her 15 minuets and if she won't eat ... fine! You don't eat today!

No couching no petting "nothing" let her figure it out! She might hold out the first day and possibly the second??? But by day three, she is gonna eat and won't care about the darkness. :)


And I know ... you just wanted to get a dog and get on life. But you did not start fresh with a puppy, you got a rescue and some of them carry "baggage??" You did not plan on becoming a "Dog Trainer" but that is where you are?? You could "always bail" take her back and say ... "Sorry it's not working out." But I doubt that would be your choice???

By and large people struggling with issues ... just want to know what to do??? If hugs and kisses and lot's of treats solved people's dog issues?? Then there would be no need for "Dog Trainers??" :)

You can do this ... keep us posted. :)
 

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I would try the food thing that bte2 suggested and then maybe incorporate "sit on the dog" after she gets comfortable eating in the dark outside.

I have had success using both of those methods. Food will most likely will be the quicker fix, you will need a bit more time for "sit on the dog".

Here is a link to "sit on the dog" that I followed word for word. It worked for me with some indoor issues my guy had as a puppy.
Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
Hmm I included that link in my thread. :)

But I wanted more and at that time ... I was able to talk with "Seltzer and Bailiff" on GSDFroum and with there "input" I kept digging and found the source ... I tend to think??

I added this link in the first post, but it seems to have blown up?? So I gotta fix it. But I knew what I was looking for so I found it again! :


And the author does not saying anything about building up to 30 minuets??? As a matter of fact she says the clock starts at 30 minuets once the dog has downed?? Well they would know ... so despite my build up to it?? Most likely going with there advise is a better option??
 

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Hmm I included that link in my thread. :)

But I wanted more and at that time ... I was able to talk with "Seltzer and Bailiff" on GSDFroum and with there "input" I kept digging and found the source ... I tend to think??

I added this link in the first post, but it seems to have blown up?? So I gotta fix it. But I knew what I was looking for so I found it again! :

How to Sit on the Dog (Leash) - DreamK9.com - YouTube

And the author does not saying anything about building up to 30 minuets??? As a matter of fact she says the clock starts at 30 minuets once the dog has downed?? Well they would know ... so despite my build up to it?? Most likely going with there advise is a better option??
Sorry Chip must have missed the link in your other post.

Yeah, I started the 30 mins once Zuke was down. I did it everyday for about a week and it cleared up some issues we were having inside the house.
 
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