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I know there is a lot of controversy on the subject of BYB
Exception to the rule? (long)
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Thanks for sharing that. I am with you on the statement that they aren't all bad people and out to make money.
I got Phoenix from a BYB if you want to call it that. I was going to get it from the only breeder where I'm from
but I found her to be very un-professional for a breeder nor did I care for the way in which the puppy's were
raised, and felt like she was in it for the money as every conversation I had with her ended up around money.
Knowing more about BYB and the stories you hear about bad experiences I think I still would of ended up getting
Phoenix from where I did. There were very responsible about what they were doing and very personable. (I still am
in contact with them) They had great love and care for every puppy from their litter (they had 12 pups) and it was a one
time deal for them.
So I really agree with what you have to say!
PS....those pups are so precious!
I got Phoenix from a BYB if you want to call it that. I was going to get it from the only breeder where I'm from
but I found her to be very un-professional for a breeder nor did I care for the way in which the puppy's were
raised, and felt like she was in it for the money as every conversation I had with her ended up around money.
Knowing more about BYB and the stories you hear about bad experiences I think I still would of ended up getting
Phoenix from where I did. There were very responsible about what they were doing and very personable. (I still am
in contact with them) They had great love and care for every puppy from their litter (they had 12 pups) and it was a one
time deal for them.
So I really agree with what you have to say!
PS....those pups are so precious!
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How can the breeder be an exception when there is no concern for any health testing. or the looks of the dogs that makes them called a boxer?? I know you love your girl, took her in but do you feel she is show quality and should be bred? Look at my dog, I am not tooting my own horn but she has been evaluated, and however is pretty darn close to breedable, but is not, hence why she is on a spay neuter and has been fixed.
People say, well they are not a BYB because they really do care about the dogs. They do this do that etc. Well, that is great but lets put aside the people and lets look at the dog. What gets me is that people regardless of how much they love their dogs are breeding dogs that should not IMO be bred. Just because the dog has the markings of a boxer and its not fixed IMO does not warrent it breedable.
To love a boxer is to appreciate a boxer. To know look at a topline and say damn, that is a straight strong back, to look at a muzzle and admire its correctness. To do that happy dance after the first year and second year holter and get readings of "O" VCPs; to look at the same dog 12 years later and praise the lord that is healthy and has not fallen victim to any heart or health genetic defects. And to call your friends who has their siblings and plan out the next birthday of the double digit club. To see the same dog look at your kids who are now teenagers and remember how you could trust him/her with them at the age of 1 and 4. To me, if a breeder takes some of that into consideration, then heck, nope not a BYB in my book.
People say, well they are not a BYB because they really do care about the dogs. They do this do that etc. Well, that is great but lets put aside the people and lets look at the dog. What gets me is that people regardless of how much they love their dogs are breeding dogs that should not IMO be bred. Just because the dog has the markings of a boxer and its not fixed IMO does not warrent it breedable.
To love a boxer is to appreciate a boxer. To know look at a topline and say damn, that is a straight strong back, to look at a muzzle and admire its correctness. To do that happy dance after the first year and second year holter and get readings of "O" VCPs; to look at the same dog 12 years later and praise the lord that is healthy and has not fallen victim to any heart or health genetic defects. And to call your friends who has their siblings and plan out the next birthday of the double digit club. To see the same dog look at your kids who are now teenagers and remember how you could trust him/her with them at the age of 1 and 4. To me, if a breeder takes some of that into consideration, then heck, nope not a BYB in my book.
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Two litters a year is about 1.5 too many. **edit due to bad math.
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I agree, BYBs can be nice, heck they can be wonderful people, BUT they are actually hurting the breed instead of helping! She just isn't well informed and it is a very touchy subject. But I find it very depressing that she is having 3 litters a year!!!!!!!! And what are her qualifications to determine a show quality dog?
Yes, BYB can be nice and have wonderful intentions but not to do what is best for the breed can have terrible consequences for the dog and for the people who buy them. Please read the thread on what happend when others have purchased from back yard breeders, it will break your heart. I hope the day never comes that we look at boxers and they don't look like boxers anymore.
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What does she mean by the puppy is virtually housebroken?? Its an 8 week old puppy, if shes suggesting you be vigilant that doesn't mean the puppy is house trained.
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I can't speak in Boxersaver's case but I know in my case Phoenix's parents were both health tested...owners had it done
for their own reasons before they even decided to have pups. I just don't feel like a bad rap should be put upon all "BYB".
Just because they are BYB doesn't mean they haven't had testing done and been checked out health wise.
Or is that what you consider a BYB...someone who just breeds and doesn't do health testing? I don't know how you classify
them. Maybe I am completely in the dark and mis-informed about this whole thing in general but for now I guess thats how I feel
until given reason to be proven otherwise.
for their own reasons before they even decided to have pups. I just don't feel like a bad rap should be put upon all "BYB".
Just because they are BYB doesn't mean they haven't had testing done and been checked out health wise.
Or is that what you consider a BYB...someone who just breeds and doesn't do health testing? I don't know how you classify
them. Maybe I am completely in the dark and mis-informed about this whole thing in general but for now I guess thats how I feel
until given reason to be proven otherwise.
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My only input is you dont know what the intentions of some one is no matter how nice they seem. I am sorry but i agree with Heather. I have loved and lost 2 boxers to due to being the product of a byb at very young ages. I almost didnt come back to the breed because of how bad i was hurt, but i couldnt ever live without a boxer in my life. My stories ARE on the thread that Barb mentioned so i wont go into it here. IMO there is no degree of byb....either you are or you arent- very black and white.....no gray, no in-between
Personally I find the criticism of BYB's overly harsh (considering the large variation of BYB's IMO). It's definitely a touchy subject.
P.S. How did 1 male and 2 females turn into 3 litters a year? That original comment could just as easily be interpreted as one total litter per year.
P.S. How did 1 male and 2 females turn into 3 litters a year? That original comment could just as easily be interpreted as one total litter per year.
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You're right it should be two litters a year, if she breeds both females one a year.Nexu\";p=\"102482 said:
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Here are four breeding situations -
1.
1.
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[quote:1fkld4sj] P.S.
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Makes great sense Heather! Took me a minute to get my head around it but I think I got it.
Good way to put it!
Good way to put it!
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i'm confused... where did we get the 3 litters a year... i thought i said they were only bred once a year
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Yes, and there are some people show kennels that can be guilty of 2 & 3 (from above list) - many people get confused because they think "Oh they show their dogs". Just like the breeders that don't. They may health test their dogs but what good is the dog if its not a true representation of a boxer? Do you want a boxer with a lab nose? or do you want a dog that truely is a representation of boxer qualities? IMO you are only as good as what you produce - structure, temperment and health wise. So even for thos hobby breeders, or glorified BYB one would think, if they are sooo into it and want to reproduce it, then why not try to produce the best you can? And this is showing aside......
I agree with Heather.
It is true that some BYBs love their dogs and care about the puppies, but perhaps they are just being naive. If they do not know how true to the standard their dogs are, or what health problems they could be passing on- they should not be breeding, even one litter- ever.
think about it, this well meaning person is bringing possibly 80 boxers into the world (2 bitches x 5 years of breeding x 8 pups a litter). That is a lot of puppies which may or may not be healthy or actually look like a boxer should. Is she a horrible, greedy person?-probably not. Is she being an irresponsible breeder?- yes.
So, yes I still consider these people Backyard breeders, sure there are very negative connotations to this term, but even the person who wants just one litter from their beloved pet is a BYB.... simple as that. I will never buy one or take a free one from a BYB- that just lets them know that what they are doing is okay because their puppies find homes. I'm sure both of my dogs are from BYB's though, but I adopted them from the shelter rather than support a BYB.
It is true that some BYBs love their dogs and care about the puppies, but perhaps they are just being naive. If they do not know how true to the standard their dogs are, or what health problems they could be passing on- they should not be breeding, even one litter- ever.
think about it, this well meaning person is bringing possibly 80 boxers into the world (2 bitches x 5 years of breeding x 8 pups a litter). That is a lot of puppies which may or may not be healthy or actually look like a boxer should. Is she a horrible, greedy person?-probably not. Is she being an irresponsible breeder?- yes.
So, yes I still consider these people Backyard breeders, sure there are very negative connotations to this term, but even the person who wants just one litter from their beloved pet is a BYB.... simple as that. I will never buy one or take a free one from a BYB- that just lets them know that what they are doing is okay because their puppies find homes. I'm sure both of my dogs are from BYB's though, but I adopted them from the shelter rather than support a BYB.
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What have I gotten myself into here.
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[quote:24fu8ceh] Cardiac OFA BX-CA248/12F/C
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[quote="HannaBanana\";p=\"102518":1yjhiud6][quote:1yjhiud6] Cardiac OFA BX-CA248/12F/C
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