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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone. Just recently took the Boxer plunge. Had an English Bulldog for 10 years. She passed 2 years ago and we finally decided it was time to get another puppy. I’ve been lurking on he forum and decided it was time to join the community. I have so many questions that are very Boxer specific, but I will start with one.

We just took our puppy to the vet. Everything was great, but his fecal came back showing the parasite Gardia in his system. I am aware that this is common and many times passed on by litter mates. However, my wife and I are a little hesitant to treat him with antibiotics as recommended. Aside from the fact that they do not always knock out the parasite and may require multiple rounds, we do not want to mess up our little guy’s gut flora from the beginning. I was wondering if any of you have had any experience with treating this (or other parasites) with a method other than antibiotics, and if you found it successful, etc.
I would have posted this in the appropriate place, but I guess you can only post here in the beginning.

Thanks so much and look forward to being part of the community!
 

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Sorry for the misspelling. Just caught it. I’m sure it’s obvious I mean Giardia. Thanks!
 

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Just to make 3 posts...

The vet wants to put him on a 5 day round of Metronidazole. I’ve read that this is not always effective and that there can be adverse reactions like vomiting. What about this being passed on to my family and I? I have multiple children who he is constantly licking, etc. If he is licking his bum and then licking us that cannot be good.

Any recommendations for shampoos to bathe him to try to get rid of any cysts on his fur? Thanks!
 

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Well congrats on getting the three post in all by yourself, impressive!! :)

Honestly I don't know anymore about this crap than you do?? But I have heard of it. And I would that this is not the time to screw around with "Homeopathic stuff!!" If you get this wrong ... you may not have a puppy to worry about!!

Go with the Vet recommendation if your uncomfortable with his advise get a second opinion and most like the recommendation is going to be the same???

But some of your questions were straightforward enough and I found this info.:
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/giardia/prevention-control-pets.html

That may help, welcome aboard and sorry it's a bumpy ride so far. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks so much for responding and for the welcome. The more I read about Giardia and the more I read about treatment the more annoyed I get at the recommendation of the vet. We decided to treat him ourselves with Panacur and supplementing with probiotics, and DE. He has another appointment in a few weeks so he will get another fecal and we will see how it went. There are so many warnings about the safety in using Metronitazole and even more about its effectiveness. Very frustrating. At least he has been completely asymptomatic.
 

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I was not aware of the issue's with "Metronidazole??" But I do know you don't wanna wreck, the Gut Flora! But "Gardia" seems to be pretty bad?? Not as bad as "Parvo" so there is that. But Food Grade DE also huh??? LOL I'm impressed. :)

If he seems to be asymptomatic??? That is certainly good news! But if your not comfortable with the vet??? Maybe look for a second opinion??? But I don't know if you have an otherwise good relationship but a difference of opinion on treatment here ... that's another deal entirely.

The only time I thought I "might have an issue with my Vet, was when I went to get her fixed. And I said don't use Acepromazine on my Boxer!!! But my Vet said, "Sure no problem" we'll use the other stuff. It worked out fine!

The stuff your using sounds complicated to me?? But if he did not have a cow and is willing to still work with you ... it should be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Our vet is not the one we used to use. We went on a recommendation this time around and they were actually really good. But we just don’t agree with the treatment plan. Could make things worse. Don’t want to offend the vet. After all, they are trained. But that obviously doesn’t mean they are always correct.
 

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Ugh sounds like a "people issue" not my thing. Vet's job is to give there advise if an owner chooses to do otherwise??? Then there job is to help them with their chosen course of action as I see it??

If he is willing to do that ... "I'd not worry to much about hurting his feelings??? A good Vet works with there clients, if he is willing to do that with you?? Then I'd stick with him. But remember ... it's not about being right ... your puppy's life is on the line here!! Boxer's ... I have learned are a "Heartbreak Breed" if you get this wrong?? It will be a "lifetime of regret!" Just saying. :(
 

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Just going to respond on this from a medical standpoint. I have no experience taking care of dogs and I’m not a vet. But I am a Rn. The med is an antibiotic. Also used for humans. Antibiotics in humans kill normal flora as well. It is how people end up with an infection known as c diff that causes watery diarrhea. Very serious if not treated. However, we do not hold antibiotics Bc of the risk of developing complications from them. The complications can be treated. And if the infection is serious enough to warrant antibiotic treatment, then all risks of secondary problems are taken into consideration. From what I’m reading, you treat the dog, or it ends up suffering the complications of the infection. I am in no means certified to tell you what to do but I know if it was my dog, it would certainly be treated. No questions asked...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you for the info. I too have somewhat of a medical background but not with animals either. The question is not whether to treat, but how to treat. The antibiotic recommended is not even 65% effective and has some major adverse reactions. We just may use a more successful antibiotic that has almost zero side effects. But as I mentioned earlier, we will consult the vet before deciding. Thanks so much.
 

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You need to treat him with the antibiotics if he has giardia. You also need to realize that cysts are passed from his stool and get into the grass, water, even on him. You need to sterilize his water /food bowls every day. He should be re checked for giardia two weeks after treatment using the ELISA test which is more effective than a normal fecal exam in identifying giardia. Not treated it affects the small intestine and he probably has very bad diarrhea , stomach pain and vomiting. You can give him a probiotic when on antibiotics.
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/giardia/prevention-control-pets.html
You will find lots of info there, this is not like a common roundworm etc.
 

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Im curious as to how the holistic approach turned out. Did it work?
I think it's a "work in progress??" I'd go with the Antibiotics myself, time is critical I would think???

On a side note, Search and Rescue Dogs are routinely given a Vaccine to protect against Giardia. As they are likely to come across "fecal contaminated sources of water."
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hello again.

Just an update on Logan and Giardia:

He did a round of Panacur (five days) and we are currently giving him a break before the second round, but are giving him different probiotics (beneficial yeast and bacteria) and DE. We will give him another round after 7-10 days, after which he will have his next vet appointment. I am obviously bringing a fresh fecal sample with me and asking for a proper test to check he status of the parasite. He has been completely asymptomatic. He had a little vomiting one day, which could be a side effect of the antibiotics or even parasite “die off”. The only thing is that we were giving him 1 gram doses (10-20 lbs) and he now weighs 17 lbs. we probably should have been giving him the 2 gram doses and will most likely go to that for the second round. His poop is normal, he is eating and drinking normally, and he is acting his normal, playful, and goofy self.

Thanks so much for all the responses. I’ll let you know how the rest goes.
 

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Hm, kinda sorta of an odd site???

It seems to be a "grab bag" of assorted techniques but no real guidance as such?? Who are these people?? What kinda dogs do they work with??? I tend to favor, Trainers that rehab, work with the "worst of the worst" myself and those guys don't tend to "hide" what they do! They "show their work."

What I see I "there" is a collection of various, tools and techniques, that could prove useful?? But no real guidance as to what type of dogs they work with??

I like to keep it simple myself. And for me if a "trainer???" Does not train or have an understanding of the "Place Command" and its importance in rehabbing, dogs with "issues" ... I got's, no use for them, myself.

All the trainers I tend to follow and post "all" train the "Place Command??" For me ... if a trainer does not include that?? I got no use for them, myself??
Now maybe those "trainers do" include "Place" as a core principle?? But if they do ... it's not clear to me?? :confused:
 
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