Boxer Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
73 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So when I picked my puppy up from the breeder at 9 weeks old I was told that he had a "puppy mummer" which apparently is quite common especially in Boxers. I had him into the vet 3 days later for a general health check up and she confirmed that he had a slight heart murmur. At 12 weeks he was in for his second set of shots and the vet said the murmur was still there but had not gotten any worse. From what I've read and what the vet told me this is common and puppies often grow out of it around 5-6 months.
Anyway, last week at age 13 weeks my boy had 2 minor seizures while out for a gentle walk around my complex. He wasn't exerting himself and it was not hot out at all. Thanos absolutely loves people and both times this happened he was excited to be meeting someone new. He was just wagging his tail and getting pats and attention when suddenly his back legs got stiff and he slowly tipped over onto his back. He lay there with his back legs stretched out not shaking, whimpering or frothing but he did loose control of his bowels. This lasted about 10 seconds then his legs relaxed and he slowly rolled onto his side and then about 10 seconds after that he got up and acted like nothing had happened.
I took him straight into the vet and based on my description of what happened she classified it as a "collapse" and not an actual seizure as there was no immediate change of behaviour just before or after the incident.
I have an appointment booked July 21 to see a Cardio specialist to determine the root cause and extent of severity as all blood and urine samples checked out clean.

Does anyone have any experience with this issue ??

Thanos has shown no signs that anything is wrong at all, he still has his appetite, still performs zoomies around the yard and still gets excited meeting people.

I have started giving him 2 sardines with each meal instead of just one per day to help with his taurine levels as the raw puppy formula he is eating is basically chicken and salmon carcass with green tripe so no beef.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
Oh man, I'm so sorry and I can't imagine how terrifying that must have been! Glad he's OK, but yeah certainly not a great start! I have heard also "low grade heart murmur's," are not uncommon and not that big a deal??

Sardines are certainly not gonna hurt?? But I thought Beef was a part of a "Raw Diet???"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,168 Posts
I never had anything like that happen on its own, but he did have the same exact thing happen once.

So I had him on the slip lead and it was just dragging behind him. There was workers working on my road and he went over to greet one of them that was on my property. So after a minute his back legs collapsed and he laid on his side. Little did I realize the worker picked up the slip lead and I'm guessing was cutting off the blood flow to his head. Learned my lesson and any time someone would go to grab the leash I would tell them don't touch the leash.

Weird though it was exactly what you described.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
656 Posts
I think its absolutely a good idea to have your puppy checked by a cardiologist. The mostly Euro male I have now had a small "puppy" murmur but it did go away he never had any fainting issues though. The two dogs I lost to DCM (they were older than your pup) did have those fainting spells and they look just like what you described your puppy did my young male would urinate on himself as well he was only 3 when I lost him. There are other heart issues as well like Stenosis that can happen so this is best evaluated by a specialist its better to know now what you are dealing with plus if there is indeed a serious problem here your breeder should have a health guarantee in place plus I am sure they would want to know about this too. I am so sorry this is happening but maybe you will get some answers with the specialist. I wish you very good luck and hope this is not serious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,941 Posts
Yes heart murmurs in young puppies is fairly common and most grow out of them. I never though heard of them having a seizure as you described. I once had a shih tzu, much older and this would happen to her occasionally in her older years however it would happen when we were on a walk and I believe it was to hot for her though it didn't seem to be and the walk was short. She was diagnosed with congestive heart failure. She still lived for many more years. It is good you are seeing a cardiologist sooner than later to rule out any issues. Be sure to keep your breeder advised too and I hope you will update us. Will keep that sweet pup in our thoughts.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
73 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yes most raw diets are primarily beef but for now he is on the "puppy starter" which is designed for growth with lots of bone and cartilage. Once he is around 5-6 months old I will be switching him over to the reg adult formula which is a mix of beef, organs, chicken, salmon and eggs.
I'm using the brand Artisan Raw, which is local (well they are in Canmore) and the puppy starter is recommended especially for med-large breed dogs to help them grow properly. As mentioned earlier however I've been adding in some sardines to boost the amount of taurine as chicken doesn't really have that much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
Yes most raw diets are primarily beef but for now he is on the "puppy starter" which is designed for growth with lots of bone and cartilage. Once he is around 5-6 months old I will be switching him over to the reg adult formula which is a mix of beef, organs, chicken, salmon and eggs.
I'm using the brand Artisan Raw, which is local (well they are in Canmore) and the puppy starter is recommended especially for med-large breed dogs to help them grow properly. As mentioned earlier however I've been adding in some sardines to boost the amount of taurine as chicken doesn't really have that much.
OH ... the Growth Plate's! Too much calcium to soon, can interfere with the proper rate of growth of bones ligament's and such. The Sardines, certainly can't hurt. But for "Grain Free," kibble feeder's "Sardines," are a necessity. Or you know a handful or two of "Cat kibble," ... full of Taruine as it happen's. Bella also get's a Corn dog for breakfast but I got no science , behind that one. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
214 Posts
I'm sorry you are going through this with your puppy. Satchel was eight when he collapsed the firs time. His collapse ended up being a third av block for which he now has a pacemaker. Glad you are taking him to a cardiologist.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,046 Posts
Doesn’t sound like a seizure to me. I’m wondering if he is getting himself so excited he’s not breathing and then passing out. A follow up with a cardiologist at 6 months is a great idea.

Now let’s talk your food! Puppies need a good variety of meats. A bone heavy chicken based diet is asking for structural issues such as OCD and improper growth. Perhaps post a picture of the guaranteed analysis so we can see what that calcium to phosphorus ratio is.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
73 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
So we got lucky and got an earlier vet appointment set for July 8, it's also here in town so I don't have to make the drive up to Edmonton.
Thanos has been doing really well this last week with no more seizures. I have decided to switch him over to the adult formula so he will be getting a good even balance of nutrition in his food but I'll continue to add a couple sardines to each meal to boost taurine levels.
I sure hope things check out ok at the cardiologist, from what I've researched so far there is a good chance he will out grow his puppy mummer in a few months with no ill affects. It sure is scary though watching your happy new puppy collapse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
656 Posts
I am glad you are getting an early appt. for Thanos, that will answer a lot of questions for you. I have heard puppy murmurs go away and my male dogs did so I am hopeful Thanos's will too. The thing that I am concerned about is he collapsed twice which speaks to maybe a rhythm problem I know when my dogs collapsed when they had DCM it was arrhythmia that caused that. I am not a doctor so hopefully the cardiologist will have more insight as to what has happened here. That was not a seizure even though it looked like one, when the blood flow is disrupted by an irregularity in the heart it cuts off blood to the brain even briefly and the dog goes down when rhythm is re established the dog gets up and acts normal. Please let us know what the cardiologist says I am praying for you guys its nothing and he will outgrow this I know you love him very much. We are pulling for you!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
73 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So Thanos, went to see the cardiologist yesterday and everything checked out fine. While he does have a minor benign puppy mummer he has absolutely no signs of heart disease.

Although this is fantastic news it still leaves an unanswered question as to what caused his collapse ? The vet suggested that sometimes Boxer puppies can have a nervous system response called "neurocardiogenic" or "vasovagal" syncope but they usually grow out of it by adulthood.

If he has another collapse we are to set him up with a Holter and try to get him excited to monitor any response.

Anyway I'm quite relieved
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
656 Posts
Whew! I am so glad you got some good news!!! I am glad they were able to rule out anything serious but the syncope is still concerning hopefully he won't do it anymore. I am so happy for you guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
So Thanos, went to see the cardiologist yesterday and everything checked out fine. While he does have a minor benign puppy mummer he has absolutely no signs of heart disease.

Although this is fantastic news it still leaves an unanswered question as to what caused his collapse ? The vet suggested that sometimes Boxer puppies can have a nervous system response called "neurocardiogenic" or "vasovagal" syncope but they usually grow out of it by adulthood.

If he has another collapse we are to set him up with a Holter and try to get him excited to monitor any response.

Anyway I'm quite relieved
Is he alright now?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
I would not bother with a holter Now he is Too young, there will be not much to tell right now..He will be all over the place. Me personally I would wait until at least One year - 18 months, strap it on 24 hours. And make sure they or you do a little shave job for good contact. singles doubles triples vpc's .Wishing you well. IMO
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top