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Discussion Starter #1
I recently lost my best friend & 11 year old Boxer. I'm looking for new boxer & need some help. I am looking for a healthy pet quality Boxer. I have talked to & emailed many breeders in the area. It's very taxing trying to sift through all of the people calling themselves breeders in an attempt to screen out the BYB's. It seems like many of the breeders I have talked to don't do health testing or if they do they want $2,000+. I spoke to 4 breeders listed on the NJ Boxer club & had the following results 1) One had no puppies but charges a minimum of $2,200 for pups & does all of the health tests recommended 2) One may have pups in November, wants $1,200-$1,400 & does all of the tests (I'm on her waiting list) 3) One had pups available, wanted $1,800 & only tested for heart but offers no guarantee 4) One doesn't do tests, offers a 2 yr guarantee & wants $1,500 for a pet quality Boxer.

I also talked to some other breeder who claims to have 15 years experience. She charges $800 but does not do all the recommended testing claiming that all of her dogs have been healthy & lived nice full lives. She only breeds the dogs she own's all of which were bought from various breeders to ensure better crossbreeding. All of the parents & grandparents live on the premise. She said her dogs are her pets. She also claims to never breed a female more than 3 times in life & with a minimum of a year apart between litters. The grandmom of her current litter is 9 years old. The father is 5 I believe. If you believe what some boxer breeders told me, the tests aren't full proof so how much should I take into consideration that all 3 generations of her dogs live on the premise & are healthy? Is that worth anything?

If any one has opinions, referrals, recommendations, etc. please lmk! I really want a Boxer & I really want a healthy one who will be part of my family's lives for a long time. I just need some help because I'm getting nowhere.
 

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Beth Downey - Amity Hall Boxers...she is wonderful! She is in MD, so not that far from you. She may not have a litter right now, but she may be able to give you some good ideas of where to look or who to contact:)

Sarah
 

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I went through the same thing last year. Just send one email and copy all the breeders from the NJBoxer club. If the breeders do not have a litter they would usually refer you to another reputable breeder that's not listed. My breeder wasn't listed because she never used a computer. :lol: But she also doesn't health test her dogs. :(

http://njboxerclub.com/membrnm.shtm
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Do you know if Lou Ann health tests her parents for heart, etc.?
 

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pokernerd said:
Do you know if Lou Ann health tests her parents for heart, etc.?
If Hannabanana and Jinxxboxers recommend a breeder, you can be assured they are reputable and run all the recommended health tests if not more. :) I wouldn't hesitate to follow their recommendation!
 

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Yeah Luanne does health test as we were talking about heart and the new gentic testing for ARVC. Yep, Clint just had a litter the beginning of July - cannot wait to see how these pups grow up. Love that dog. Awesome temperment, excellent confirmation - could not keep my hands off him!! ha ha ha
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I called Lou Anne from Cachet Boxers & left a message. She called me back this evening but I wasn't home so I have to try to reach her tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, from her message, it sounds like she sold off all of her "pet" quality dogs, however she said she had several pups which she hasn't been able to determine whether or not they will be show or pet quality yet. She went on to say it would take a couple of weeks until she could make that determination. Finally, she said if she couldn't help me she might be able to put me in touch with someone who can. She sounds very nice & I'm looking forward to talking with her about the whole situation. THANKS AGAIN!!!!

In the mean time, I spoke with a breeder who I talked to earlier this week who was charging $800 for pups in PA. She stated that she didn't do the doppler, holter or hip testing but that all of her dogs have had no health problems in those areas whatsoever. She further claimed that none of her dogs have died or suffered from heart, hip &/or cancer problems. I asked her how young was her youngest Boxer who died & she said 9 but it was due to a non-cancerous cyst which ruptured inside unknown to her resulting in internal bleeding & the death of the dog. She claims most of her dogs who have passed on in the 12 years she has been doing this have lived until 11, 12 & 14 years of age. I am still skeptical so I asked her if would be OK to speak with her veterinarian to find out his take on her dogs & their health histories. She said absolutely no problem & encouraged my questions. She claims that all of her boxers have come from different bloodlines & she never breeds from the same bloodlines. She also said that she will only breed her bitches 3 x's max & never closer than 1 year apart. She also said that if I had any other questions or needed advice regarding Boxers that I should not hesitate to call her even if I didn't buy from her. The breeder's name is Joyce Jordan from Jack-In -The-Boxer Kennels. Does anyone know of her or has anyone ever heard anything about her? What's your take on this? Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking for breeders & I'm hoping that something will pan out with Lou Anne from Cachet but so far my search has ben frustrating for the most part & many of the "top" breeders I talked to don't do all of the testing either but still want $1,500-$2,000 for their dogs. This lady sounded very knowledgeable, concerned about the breed & the welfare of her dogs & although she doesn't do all the testing... the family health history sounds pretty good, all of which I assume can be verified with her veterinarian. Lmk.
 

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She stated that she didn't do the doppler, holter or hip testing but that all of her dogs have had no health problems in those areas whatsoever. She further claimed that none of her dogs have died or suffered from heart, hip &/or cancer problems.
How does she know that if she hasn't done any testing? Has she had necropsies done on every single dog that she's owned and bred, to determine cause of death?

I asked her how young was her youngest Boxer who died & she said 9 but it was due to a non-cancerous cyst which ruptured inside unknown to her resulting in internal bleeding & the death of the dog. She claims most of her dogs who have passed on in the 12 years she has been doing this have lived until 11, 12 & 14 years of age.
Again, I would ask age and cause of death (based on necropsy) of all of her dogs, including the puppies she's produced and sold.

(I can well imagine she doesn't have this, and honestly I wouldn't expect her to - but if one claims one's dogs have never had any of the most common health issues in Boxers, one should be able to back that up with hard evidence.)

She claims that all of her boxers have come from different bloodlines & she never breeds from the same bloodlines. She also said that she will only breed her bitches 3 x's max & never closer than 1 year apart.
These might sound good on the surface, but never breeding from the same bloodlines means you're likely spreading around genes for recessive and polygenic conditions without realizing it - until the future generations are bred together, and then they come out in force. Breeding related dogs - judiciously - can help you pinpoint problematic genes earlier, and thus work to minimize or eliminate them in the population. Limiting the number of litters a bitch has is certainly to her benefit, but most reproductive experts agree that, as far as uterine health is concerned, breeding on consecutive seasons is better for the bitch than skipping a season or more between litters. Of course there's more to the bitch than the uterus, but quite often two consecutive breedings are the best option.

What's your take on this?
I think you have to decide what you're comfortable with, what risks you're willing to take, and what type of breeder you want to support. I would certainly ask about health warranties, breeding rights (or, better put, non-breeding agreements), first right of refusal, and take-back clauses. Keep in mind that while some of the tests are not a final clearance for the parents (though Doppler and hip x-rays after two years of age are), and none of them guarantee the puppies will not develop the conditions (except the DM test, probably), they do dramatically increase the odds of a healthy, long-lived puppy. A breeder who has their dogs objectively evaluated structurally and temperamentally (via conformation shows, performance events, working trials, etc.) gives you much higher odds of a typey, predictable, physically and temperamentally sound dog. A breeder who thoroughly screens buyers, takes back the dogs they produce at any time, requires first right of return option, and warranties the health of their puppies (not contingent on you returning the dog, or on its reproductive status) gives you the best odds of helping to support the breeders who will preserve the breed and ensure that future generations have access to quality, healthy, long-lived, typey, sound Boxers in the future.

A quick word on pricing - the average price for a well-bred pet puppy from a responsible breeder is $900-1500; prices are generally higher on the coasts and the major cities (New Jersey is included in this) - about $500-1000 more. These prices generally allow the breeder the best chance of breaking even on an average-sized Boxer litter with a textbook, problem-free pregnancy and whelping. (Of course, things are rarely entirely textbook and problem-free!)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well, I was able to talk to Lou Anne & she was very nice to deal with & very informative. Unfortunately she doesn't have any "pet" pups at this time. She said that she used a holter test on all parents & doppler on all studs & on bitches who had a murmur. She also tests for thyroid but doesn't test for hips as she doesn't believe that hips are really a large problem in the breed.

That being said...I've been searching continually & stumbled upon a breeder out in the Pittsburgh area. She only sells Boxers for pet purposes & asks $850! I know, sounds like a BYB...but, here's the rest. She won't even deal with you until you fill out a pretty extensive application (which I did). All her dogs are sold with the understanding that you will spay or neuter them. She tests all her parents with a holter monitor but not doppler. She also screens for thyroid but also does not test for hips (same reasoning as Lou Anne & several other Boxer breeders I spoke to). She also does a full blood panel on the mother before breeding. None of her females are breed before 2 & non older than 5 with a minimum of a year apart. If her dog has 3 litters within that time frame it is retired as are any dogs who are older than 5. She offers a 1 year health guarantee as well. She's been breeding for 14 years & her pups are kept in the house with the family. She does not require a deposit to hold a dog for you as she believes that no one should be forced to take a puppy if they change their mind. Idk, she sounds pretty good & everything she said to me plus everything in her sales contract is centered around the welfare of the dog. I would appreciate some feedback but of all the breeders I talked to she has been one of the nicest & pickiest about who she deals with. Also, the dogs are beautiful! I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks.
 

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I'm impressed with her reasoning.A good breeder WILL have you fill out a pretty in depth application, I don't blame them..Sounds like she sells with a s/n contract, that good :up: Her testing theories to me are pretty sound and I like her breeding practices as well, which is wise..I know my breeder also asks for deposits, which are refunded, should you change your mind, she actually doen't even cash them until the pup is sold...
 

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Sounds decent but I would ask why she doesn't Doppler; the Holter and Doppler look for different things. While Doppler-cleared parents can produce affected puppies, the level of disease is much less significant and generally does not affect the quality or length of life. Parents who have the disease, however, can produce puppies that are severely affected and at risk for collapse and sudden death.

A one-year health guarantee is of limited usefulness; many genetic conditions don't develop until the dog is 2 years or older, and none of the clearances can be done until 2 years of age. Also, many guarantees require you to return the dog before any restitution is given - and so of course most breeders don't have to 'pay up' because most people are unwilling to give back their dogs. (I'm not saying that's the case with this particular breeder, just something to keep in mind.)

I'd also want to know how she obtains objective evaluations of structure (conforming to the standard) and temperament. I know often people feel those aren't important for "just a pet" puppy, but they can have a significant impact on the long-term health and welfare of the dog. The best chances of a happy, healthy, typey, stable, long-lived puppy is from a breeder who considers health, structure, and temperament to be of equal importance.
 

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IF you are still looking for a breeder I just posted this in another thread and could be a decent start.


paulM said:
If you're looking for boxers in NJ. I would look into Avalon Boxers - http://www.avalonkennels.net/ . They are supposively reputable. I contacted them twice and they never got back to me. But maybe you'll have better luck. I've heard good things about them. Also try Pheasant Hollow Boxers out of Walkill, NY. It's like 10 min from NJ. I went to visit Kerry Jones there in April and she was great. The dogs were beautiful, especially Louie. He was as solid as can be and a great looking dog. Pheasant Hollow has a couple female's about to whelp in July and August. Good luck.
Also, the price for a pup when I was inquiring for Pheasant Hollow was $2,000.
 
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