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Help with aggressive old boxer

1K views 11 replies 7 participants last post by  chip18 
#1 ·
Hello, a few months ago my grandfather passed away and left a 9 year old boxer that needed a home. We agreed to take care of him for a couple of weeks, but of course we fell in love with him and want to keep him. The problem is that the dog is quite aggressive when it comes to both other people and other dogs. He is extremely sweet and loving to the family and very protective. Whenever we have visitors he starts charging towards them and starts jumping and tries to bite them. He has already bitten an elderly man during a walk, and has tried to bite a child that wanted to pet him. I'm not getting a very aggressive feeling from him while he is doing this, feels more like that's his way of playing. He usually listens to commands such at sit and stop, when he is not stressed that is.. Whenever we meet other dogs during walks, he desperately wants to get close to the dog, constantly pulling on the leash and he gets really nervous. Sometimes if another dog is far away he may just lay down on the ground and wait for the dog to get close so he can then charge towards him. Whenever this happens he completely stops listening to commands and is not interested in anything other than the dog. The same thing happens when we meet certain people during walks but is not as severe as meeting other dogs.
It is really difficult to take care of a dog that is acting this way, and we see no way of being able to take care of him if this continues. So, any tips of teaching him to stop charging and biting other people and dogs? We don't really know much about his past, but we know for certain that this has been a problem for a long time.
 
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#2 ·
Aw, Crap!! The time to "reach out," was before he "bit" someone! At this point ... "You," are his only hope! Cuz you can't really, with good conscience, pass him on, without disclosing his bite history?? And for the most part ... not a lot of people are eager to take on a dog with a "Bite History??"

There are of course a few ... but they are few and far between, I would imagine?? OK then ... to start it goes without saying that "this crap," is not normal Boxer behavior!

Now that much said if the "Law," is not after him for biting people?? Then yes there are thing's "You Can Do!" But it requires a firm commitment from "You," that your dog ... "Will Do No Harm to Other People And There Dog's! And the first step ... is for "You," to stop putting him in a position, where he can make a mistake! "

And the first and simplest step ... is to "Stop Screwing Around with Other Dog's and People!" He has already "shown you," he does not like either! And you should believe him! A dog has no requirement to interact with other dog's! If he is gonna be a "serious tool??" Then he "need's to learn to ignore other dog's!" And a dog ...also has no obligation to like "People," outside of his family?? But they do have an "obligation," to be "Safe and Civil," in public!!

Been there done that ... try 113 Lb's of Human Aggressive Working Line GSD! That uh did not "much care for stranger's," to be kind. But I could take him "anywhere in public," and he was safe! We had a "Pack!" And his job was to not bite the crap out of people and my job was to keep "People Out Of His Face!"

And in his ten year's of life... sigh. "We," did Good! He never bit anyone or harmed another dog. Despite his five "Pack Fight's and sending me to the ER, for the first stitches in my life ever, while Breaking Up One Of Those Pack Fight's!!!" I luv'd my Struddell (White Boxer) but other than the typical Boxer Goofiness she was not really challenge. But my Rocky my GSD ... was a great responsibility and also my greatest accomplishment, he was a great Dog!!

At any rate if this all makes sense and you are willing to change, well most likely a lot of what you do this Dog?? Then yep ... you can find help here!!

But you know ... if your a "one (Post) and done deal ... not much point in me going on and on?? Welcome Aboard in any case and sorry it's a bumpy ride so far. :(
 
#3 ·
Welcome to the forum and I think its wonderful you took in a 9 year old dog. At this age and not knowing his full background, perhaps this behavior was ok with your grandfather or and likely he didn't have many opportunities to act out. First when you have guests over I would gate him off in a section of room and let him settle down while the visitors are there. You may just need to keep him away from them. Same as when ou walk him, tell people he is not friendly and just go about your walk. Perhaps walk him on a pinch collar , (learn how to properly use) and keep his focus on you. Get some high value treats to do this and when he makes eye contact, treat saying yes. Everything is new to him right now and he is likely set in many ways, though you can correct bad behavior. I think it wonderful you have given him a home.
 
#6 ·
Aww, well even though it does annoy me when new member's reach out for help and then disappear??? I suppose "whatever??" But, since folk's don't want to let it go ... well it's my turn. Hopefully w/o being an A-hole?? :)

On "here," Boxer's like this one are "Thankfully," pretty rare. Boxer's that actually show up that bite"" Show up maybe once or twice a year?? But , most likely due to the "Shutdown," and the resultant lack of socialization ... that maybe changing going forward ... I don't know??

But on Gertmanshepardforum?? LOL, dog's like this are pretty much par for the course! I have no idea how "GSD's" were wayyy back in the day?? But as of 2005 ... I'm pretty sure they are not the same and more like mine was??? They are bigger and well "some of them are full of attitude! And take a year or more to before one become's fully aware that they have a "issue here?? And then "some of them," take that ... "wary of stranger's to the Nth degree! Apparently always being in the top four, of most popular Dog's in American, has it's "Blow Back???"

On GSD Forum there were a few of "us," (on our own) that dealt successfully with dog's like this. And we explained "what we did." And while not that hard, it did require discipline and commitment on the part of the Dog's Handler.

And someone labeled them "Bubble Dog's??" A Dog that need's a muzzle to be (safe in public) and the owner's keep a Protective Bubble of Distance around the dog, for a period of time. Eventually you can drop the muzzle. After you have spent the time to show the Dog "What You Want," and how he is expected to behave around people! You teach/show him, "What you expect and how to "Make Better Choices." The "Bubble Dog Protocol." :)

And it's best accomplished ... "By Keeping People Out Of His Face!" IE ... "you don't have to like anyone Dog, but you do have to be Civil! And there is only one rule, in "Bubble Dog Protocol, not "One Bite Dog!"

You can't insure that by taking "Silly Chances??" So yeah with Dog's like "this," you can't break the rules! So it would be ... "uh unwise to use ,"Treat's," to trick the dog into having a Stranger violate there space. For the most part such a dog won't take the treat anyway?? And if he "actually does??" He'll focus on the treat ,gulp it in a second and then "look Up" and See some A-Hole in his face, WTH ?? Where did this guy come from?? And wham ... you messed up! Cuz if the Dog does take the "treat??" He focus on that and forget's about the person ... for a second. Eat's the treat and look's up and see some tool in his face??

And no less than Micheal Ellis, (A Mal Guy) took note of that phenomenon, during a training session! Some owner's had treat's and some did not?? And one particular Mal, took exception to "not getting a treat!" And he struck that guy! ME no longer uses treat's in dealing with Dog's and People ... Lesson Learned. With a "True Bubble Dog Protocol," you maintain a "Five Foot Distance," from stranger's, if you stop and talk to a stranger?? The Dog stops or you tell him stay and you shield him. The dog is "behind you and still," ... do that enough and the dog will "get It."

People are not allowed in his freaking face, period end of story! And after a while ... he will get that. And after a while (no less than three month's of Walking Him and Ignoring People ... I think??" He will grow to understand ... that you have his back. And coincidentally ... he will have your's as it happened with me. :)

And a "Prong Collar," for this would be a "pretty choice for most people, for a dog with Aggression Issue??" A "Prong Collar," can "Put Drive into a Dog, or take Drive out of a Dog??

And yeah, that sound's "complicated," I would imagine?? But easy to understand, in IPO/ PPD/MWD or LE ... what type of Collar do they use?? A "Prong Collar," but those guy's know what they are doing and they are doing much more than just training the dog to walk on a loose leash. :)

It's just not the proper "Tool," for this type of issue. A much better choice for this issue would be, a properly used Slip Lead Leash or simpler still a Dominate Dog Collar ... properly used. Another story ...

And of course ... nothing wrong with, "finding a trainer??" Assuming the owner can "afford one," and if they do?? Said trainer know's what they are doing??

That option did not work for me with my Rocky cuz ... well at the time. I "Trusted No One With My Dog!" He had "People and Pack Fight Issues!" And yeah, the stitches in my hand proved I did not have the "Pack Issues Solved??"

But hey that was an in house deal so whatever. But the people thing yeah that was a "Biggie!" And my Rocky also had a "proven," under carefully conditions ... "dislike for toddler's?! But you know even still ... long story short "crap happen's??" And when confronted by a "Toddler!" In an out of site "Place," and approached by said "Toddler??" It was "Rocky's" call (GrandMa) fell asleep and the toddler went outside where Rocky was!!! She and the Toddler were not "suppose to be there," ... but crap happen's!

Rocky was out back in "Place," and the "Toddler Approached??" It was now his call so you know "what to do??" He is supposed to hold "Place," and he is "also," suppose ... "not to Bite" and where was Dad?? It was his call and he "chose to walk away," from the approaching Toddler" ie ... "Make Good Choices Dog!"

I was finished helping my client and freaked out when I, came out of the Bathroom and looked for the toddler??! And saw no toddler and Grandma asleep!! OMG ... I darted out back ... excepting to see a scene of horror! But ... first thing, I saw was the Toddler unharmed and then I looked where Rocky ... "should have been," and did not see him??

It was his call ... "I'm suppose to stay in Place, but I don't much care for toddler's! But I see no "Dad," for direction and I am not "suppose to bite??" And a "toddler," is not really a threat (although I don't like them!) So perhaps ... the best choice is to walk away?? After my freak out I looked again and Rocky "was," there about 15 feet away from the Toddler. And yeah he broke "place!" But he did Good! Make good choice's dog, he did good (he did as I showed him) don't bite stranger's! Not"everyone," is a threat?? He did his part and I had done mine, which was "to respect his choice, not to be bothered by people." Not every dog enjoy's the company of strangers ... apparently??? :)

Sooo "this," is not a "How To," just my observation's of what I had actually done?? And even at that it took me "year's," to understand how and why it worked?? Larry Khron, in one of his numerous Youtube Clip's/Lecture explained to "me," what I had already done and why it worked??? I was stunned??

And there was no use of "Treat's," and most importantly ... never a need for correction's?? If you have to "Correct the Dog??" You have already screwed up ... either you were to slow in moving on are you let someone get to close! My Dog, my responsibility, you keep your distance (Five Feet) worked for us "we'll keep our distance you keep your's ... "Thank You For Understanding!" If you are not a "Pro," and I am not! You can't really "Read," a dog?? And you know ... "lacking that ability," it is simply just best to "Keep People Out Of The Dog's Face!" They can't bite people ... if they can't get to them. And after a while ... you will understand what the dog "look's like when he is "Fine" or "Chill," if you will.

Most folk's respected ... "fear of People and he is in training, to get better." But hey if they did not ... respect that as an answer ... My dog would be the least of there problem's ... I don't play! Good time's Good times. :)

But back on point and back to "Find a Trainer." A competent qualified trainer, is very expensive, well in America anyway and even still some of them suck! There is no shortage of stories of "Dog's" that have been thru "several Trainer's before finding the "Right One!"

"And a full on Board and Train is expensive!" But one can "Break It Down," and having a "Trainer," in private session's can be reasonable. The full deal Board and Train total Rehab to, solve all this dog's Issues," would be expensive, I would imagine?? But "Baby Step's," is a viable option. But If as was stated the OP can't even "Walk The Dog??"

Yeah NO, that is just not gonna work?? As "Bubble Dog, 101," your gonna have to "Walk Your Dog," ... a lot! As in that is pretty much all you do ... for quite a while. You go out and walk (your dog/muzzled for a while) and you find people to "Avoid and Ignore!" No contact with the dog and the public. The Dog's Job is to Watch Observe and Learn To Ignore. A "mobile," Place Command if you will. There are a few more detail, but that's the essence.

Hiring a trainer to teach one how to walk there dog ... is not that expensive and if you want, throw in training him to "ignore other dog's??" Cuz, that is also less expensive than training him to get along with other dog's?? IE you don't need a "pack of trained dog's."

Now it turn's out that my Rocky was actually excellent with other dog's?? But that was just an observation on my part after the fact. Cuz, I did not really care about other dog's. Being civil and ignoring them was more than "Good Enough For Me." But sigh ... on Germanshepardfroum ... Rocky was one of the few GSD's that did not need to be "Muzzled," and "Drugged," just to go to the Vet! Yep being able to do that with a GSD ... is a big deal, apparently??

I got more of course but "this," is the essence of what "We," did. :)
 
#7 ·
I actually do believe in treats..this is to get your dogs attention back to you. Its odd I wasn't a believer but there is much new research today and I am learning more . When I know my dog will start to act out or ideally just before, I use a high value treat to get him to focus on myself. When he is focused on me what goes on around him has less of an impact on him, he is too busy with me...Its a slower process but it works. Once a dog is "in the zone" this would not work, at that point the dog isn't listening to you and doesn't care about anything else, so you can't really train at that point. Hense its best to avoid that circumstance. As far as using a pinch collar or prong as some call them. I use it for me, it does not allow the dog to pull me to the point where I cannot hold onto the lead. My dogs have all know after using one 1x that you just don't pull, I have not had to do any correction, they know if they pull, it is an unpleasant experience. I have used a slip lead and in many cases there work well however with some of the dogs I have had, like my rottweilers, they developed strong neck muscles and could pull me regardless that they were choking themselves. Everyone is different in how they train but I think the best for you and this dog (not actually seeing him) is to avoid these circumstances at least until you have control. I hope you will let us know how you are doing.
 
#8 ·
"Prong Collar's" and even "treat's" are just "Tool's," and as long as they are used "appropriately," sure no problem. I used "treat's" for the first time in oh 20 year'sand used Larry Khron's, clip to teach Bella the "Heel Flip!" And it worked out great! That she know's, but she is still a Pig Headed "Tool," with uh "slow recall," (while in a distraction free environment) and most likely none with distraction's, although she did do good with a long distance Stay ... when a Motorcycle Popped Up!! That was scary but she did good, ... "Crap Happen's. :)

And I have also used a "Prong Collar," on here for a little bit but it's a PIA, to clip on and off all the time so mostly she goes with a Martingale and a Traffic leash. She's OK but she is no Struddell or certainly not a "No Leash Required, Rocky!"

This dog as described, is a Real Deal, "I'm gonna hurt hmm ... "someone else Bad," if you mess, up by taking "Silly Chances," with a Dog they clearly don't understand and can't read??


Right now, the dog should not have been out and about with company over. That is pretty much the very last area one should work on?? His home, his people and I don't know you, so leave Now!!! And for a dog like that?? The use of "treat's," violate's a ... "Bubble Dog Protocol," the dog really does not care about a Hot Dog or such, when he is already looking at 100 lbs of "Raw Meat." And if the Dog, is close enough to the ... "Possible Target" to take the treat?? Then the last "fail safe is broken." Inside of five feet, with a dog in a high state of agitation and you have "Zero Chance of stopping a strike!" Distance is your friend. :)

And a "Prong Collar," for a dog like this (and they used to be called aggregation collar's) ... yeah.
The dog is already in a high state of aggregation, cuz well you've messed up! So now you have maybe a fraction of a second to stop him and correct him! And your gonna have to correct him hard, real hard! But if it's not hard enough and the dog think's, "well I was just doing what I do and now this crap, I don't think so!" Now you have created an "Up Leash Dog!" We had a few of those on Germanshepardforum also.

A "Prong Collar, like a Slip Lead Leash," is a two edged sword, cept you can't put Drive into a dog with a SSL but you can take it out! But sigh, all of that "stuff," is "complicated??"

Bubble Dog Protocol, is pretty simple (but most likely time consuming??) But the key point's would be Maintain a Bubble of Protection Around the Dog, Don't take silly chances and Show Him What You Want. And he learn's, How You Expect Him To behave around people. There are some other "Detail's," of course but the above is the essence.

But back on point. Exclusive of (BDP??) Then yes best advise is to "Find A Trainer," and I would start the hunt with the Site Bte2 linked. Cuz a Gental Paw's (Type) Trainer is not gonna be able to .. "Fix," this. And a lot of them don't work with dog's that bite anyway.

Oh and in case anyone thing's no mention of correction in (BDP) was an over-site on my part?? Nope not all, for human aggression, Rocky never needed a "Correction," I kept people out of his face (so as not to violate his comfort zone ... (5 feet for a while) and used a Muzzle in public till I figured that out and he never hit the Red Zone. No corrections for his real issue was not a plan but it is how it worked out. And after awhile he could go anywhere with me "off leash" and no Muzzle Required. :)
 
#9 ·
All good cues but 1st make sure his sight is good....when they lose their sight they become a bit scared and wary
 
#10 ·
LOL, well you got me on that one! Something I had not considered?? Still at it's core ... it would not matter?? Let me explain (sigh, I suppose. :))

"Assuming," a dog is not "Wired Wrong??" In which case ... there is "Nothing, that can be done, and the kindest option is to PTS." But ... dog's that are "Wired Wrong??" Do seem to be fairly rare?? A true hard core ... this dog can't be fixed, no matter what is done?? Is pretty rare??? I know of only case reported by Jeff Gellman, many years ago. This guy ... :

And he has trained and rehabbed "Thousands of Dog's!" And while it was year's ago now so thing's could have changed?? But at the time ... the only dog he dealt with that was "Truly Wired Wrong??" Was his "Daughter's American Line Akita!" Even Jeff, could not "save that dog for his Daughter!" So "wired wrong," does happen so yeah ...

And I ll grant that it "does," take a competent qualified "Pro," to evaluate that level of ... "un-fix-ably crazy!" And "I" would except, only the word of a "Pro," that has "Rehabbed," freaking hundreds if not thousand's of Human Aggressive Dog's, as something they do on a fairly routine basis. But Dog's like that are not the norm. So I will grant that dog's like exist , I never have one "cuz," I would get seriously hurt and or killed before such a dog ever got a hold of a member of JQP! Another rule of (BDP) don't make your dog's "problem's," someone else's problem!

About five feet away from JQP, was not some "random number," I pulled out of the air??? Rocky seemed "Good," at that distance and if he moved forward, toward someone (without my permission) it gave me enough time to step in front of him! He'd have to go thru me, to get to JQP! My dog my problem ... keep it in house as it were!

And that would be why, it would be wise to use a "Muzzle," in the beginning, if you know ... "your not really sure of what your doing???" Rehabbing a "Biter," is a straight up no BS deal! And ... if you mess up,someone is gonna hurt or you know killed!

Pro's know that ... but they won't say it. And they are few and few and far between on "Dog Forum's." Cuz, you know on the "Internet," everybody is an expert! But as I, "used to say a lot," ... there is always that Guy! :)

Now there were more of them on "Germanshepardforum," then there are "here!" And I butted, head's with a lot of them! But you know even still ... "none if them were able to say ... my "purposed approach was wrong!"
So there is that. But as a general rule ... the first line of attack was ... "JQP," can't really tell the difference between, "Fear Aggression and Human Aggression??"

I will grant that ... but I didn't care! Fear or Human Aggression ... either one would have a "Dog Biting/Attacking," someone out of the Blue!!

So for me "Why," the dog wanted to "bite" did not matter?? As "I" was not gonna have it! So and back on point. Sure if a dog were blind or going blind cuz it was older ... that could explain a lot?? But even still the "behavior," is not acceptable!

Fear of people cuz a dog is going blind or blind or you know the dog "just does not like people," outside of his family," does not matter!

(Bubble Dog Protocol) ... is still, the same! The dog learn's to "Trust You!" Your building (trust) by walking and distancing from stranger's, the dog learn's, you put him in harm's way, you build a "A Bond of Trust," over time.

The dog learns to know ... that you have his back and after you show him that for awhile, he grow's to understand it?? And he learn to "Trust You!"

The OP here, left out a lot "stuff??" But as a general rule ... I would bet, ... the dog free roam's in the house, get's on the furniture, and sleep's with the owner?? And there was no "Two Week Shut Down," done with the dog, to enable him to get used to his "new," circumstances??

Basically a "lack of structure in the home." With a "normal dog," you can get away with that crap (for the most part??") But with a "Biter," not so much?? Now I don't know if "any of that is true??" But I am pretty sure it is?? Cuz in "Boxer Land," everybody does that. :)

And the OP seem's to be gone?? This dog's "option's" were pretty limited?? No responsible "Boxer Rescue Group," even in Switzerland?? Would take in a Boxer with a "bite history??"

The dog's option's would be limited to folk's like me for "Re-homing," and we are sadly, few and far between??" Cuz you know a "Dog with a Bite History?? Yeah Boy sign me up! Not a lot of taker's I would imagine??
 
#11 ·
Hi! I adopted a boxer at age 7 who had very similar issues. If you REALLY care to figure this out, take a few weeks to really slow down to figure out what he can and can't handle.

The first thing you need to do is take a major step back -completely avoid everyone and everything on walks. Don't have people over for a few weeks. It's a pandemic anyway ;). Typically, when someone adopts a dog, you should give them at least two weeks of calm, sticking to a routine, avoiding too much "new stuff" like people or dogs. The dog needs time to decompress, he had a totally different owner his whole life. ABSOLUTELY no children, children are unpredictable for even the friendliest of dogs. Crate the dog when you know someone is coming over. Give him a kong, even keep the crate in the room where everyone is so he can enjoy and feel safe and included as well.

If your dog is biting, that dog is likely over threshold the second they step outside and possibly stressed in the home. Every dog has a bite threshold, all it takes is a number of aggravating factors to get there. Give your senior a "cortisol break" and walk in calm, quiet areas. Read up on dog body language, the dog will show you right away when they are getting over threshold. Ideally on a walk you want a dog who is calm enough to walk with you, pay attention to you, and enjoy the walk with plenty of sniffing. I can always tell when my dog is about to get concerned about something, so I will guide her away to turn around. Eventually she learned that A. she does not have to approach or be approached by the scary thing B. She has other choices besides lunging, biting etc. Now when she sees a dog she doesn't want to be around, she speeds up a bit if they're behind, or chooses to walk away in a diff direction. It's amazing seeing a fearful dog make her own choice!

I would 1000% bring this up to your vet and do a full CBC to check for any underlying health issues.

Additionally, please remember that it is more normal than not for senior dogs to be selective with other dogs. They absolutely do not need to greet other dogs while out. My dog likes quite a few dogs but she can get defensive with some, especially rambunctious puppies, and on our walks we don't greet any dogs even if its a potential new BFF. If my dog wants to become friends, I ask the owner if they'd like to do a parallel dog walk. This allows each dog to get to know one another slowly. Then eventually they can sniff, or play.
 
#12 ·
Hi! I adopted a boxer at age 7 who had very similar issues. If you REALLY care to figure this out, take a few weeks to really slow down to figure out what he can and can't handle.

The first thing you need to do is take a major step back -completely avoid everyone and everything on walks. Don't have people over for a few weeks. It's a pandemic anyway ;). Typically, when someone adopts a dog, you should give them at least two weeks of calm, sticking to a routine, avoiding too much "new stuff" like people or dogs. The dog needs time to decompress, he had a totally different owner his whole life. ABSOLUTELY no children, children are unpredictable for even the friendliest of dogs. Crate the dog when you know someone is coming over. Give him a kong, even keep the crate in the room where everyone is so he can enjoy and feel safe and included as well.

If your dog is biting, that dog is likely over threshold the second they step outside and possibly stressed in the home. Every dog has a bite threshold, all it takes is a number of aggravating factors to get there. Give your senior a "cortisol break" and walk in calm, quiet areas. Read up on dog body language, the dog will show you right away when they are getting over threshold. Ideally on a walk you want a dog who is calm enough to walk with you, pay attention to you, and enjoy the walk with plenty of sniffing. I can always tell when my dog is about to get concerned about something, so I will guide her away to turn around. Eventually she learned that A. she does not have to approach or be approached by the scary thing B. She has other choices besides lunging, biting etc. Now when she sees a dog she doesn't want to be around, she speeds up a bit if they're behind, or chooses to walk away in a diff direction. It's amazing seeing a fearful dog make her own choice!

I would 1000% bring this up to your vet and do a full CBC to check for any underlying health issues.

Additionally, please remember that it is more normal than not for senior dogs to be selective with other dogs. They absolutely do not need to greet other dogs while out. My dog likes quite a few dogs but she can get defensive with some, especially rambunctious puppies, and on our walks we don't greet any dogs even if its a potential new BFF. If my dog wants to become friends, I ask the owner if they'd like to do a parallel dog walk. This allows each dog to get to know one another slowly. Then eventually they can sniff, or play.
Hey ... Philosophically, we are on the page! Cept bad attitudes aren't age related. Good post regardless and Welcome Aboard ... if I missed you earlier. :)
 
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