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Discussion Starter #1
Was looking at the American Boxer Club Website and found this......I was dissapointed that the statement below in bold was on there.



Buying a Puppy?

At What Age Should I Buy My Puppy?
Usually any time after 7-8 weeks. Many states have regulations regarding minimum age. However, your individual circumstances must be considered. Do you have the time to spend with a very young puppy? Will someone be home to housebreak him? Would an exuberant 6-month old puppy overwhelm a tiny child? Or would he be better matched with a 6-year-old youngster? Remember also that the puppy under 3 months needs lots of time to rest.

While much can be told at six to eight weeks about the puppy's eventual looks, if you are seeking a show prospect you might be better off waiting until the pup is six to eight months of age. At that time, be prepared to pay a higher price for all the additional time and effort that the breeder has spent raising the show potential Boxer.

Male or Female?
This choice is a matter of personal preference. Remember, however, that if you contemplate breeding, you will need to start with the very best quality female you can find. Females make admirable pets. If breeding is not anticipated, you will want to spay your female. This operation should be done after consulting your veterinarian, and probably before the puppy is a year old. This will effectively prevent your female from coming into season and attracting male dogs from miles around!



Tails should have been docked within a few days of birth.


Optional removal of front dewclaws (fifth toes) done at the same time The Boxer has no rear dewclaws.


Ear cropping is appropriate for the well-being of the breed. This procedure is done under general anesthesia, usually between six and nine weeks of age. If the puppy is taken before cropping, the breeder usually makes arrangements. Breeder also advises regarding aftercare and taping if ears are not already standing. Sometimes this is a lengthy process. The erect, cropped ear reduces the potential for infections and hematomas that often beset long-eared breeds.


In the male, both testicles should be descended into the scrotum. They should be in place by two to three months of age. A dog with undescended testicles may still make a fine pet, though he would be ineligible to compete in the show ring. Consult your vetennarian for advice.


Avoid the unusually quiet, inactive puppy, or the one that might shy away from you. This might mean a fault in temperament or even ill health.


Do not purchase a white Boxer or one with predominantly white background color.


Papers the Seller Should Furnish:

a. A three or four generation pedigree signed by the seller. This usually represents the bill of sale. There should be no charge for this. The pedigree preferably gives the color of the sire and dam, and the AKC registration numbers of each.

b. The blue-slip from the AKC, which is an official document identifying your puppy's litter registration number, sex, birth date, sire and dam, and name of the breeder(s). There are two ways to register puppies for the first time with this blueslip:

(1) Limited Registration
If the puppy is not to be bred, or is not considered sound, and is being purchased only as a companion pet, the breeder may check off the Limited Registration option. This does register the puppy with the AKC. However, it does not allow any registration of offspring from the mature dog. The breeder (and only the breeder) can cancel the limited registration should the puppy at maturity be considered of breeding quality.

(2) Full Registration
If the puppy is considered to be of breeding quality, the seller will check off the full registration option.


Records the Breeder Should Furnish:

a. Date and type of vaccines given. Depending on the type of vaccination program started, your veterinarian will advise you on following through. Remember, too, that socalled permanent shots still require a yearly booster.

-- b. Date and agent used for worming, if done. Do not worm your puppy without consulting your veterinarian. Avoid store-bought preparations.

-- c. Diet your puppy has been receiving. It is well to maintain the regimen begun by the breeder, especially while the puppy is adjusting to his new home. If changes are to be made. do so very gradually, so as not to upset his system When he is an adult it will be wise to maintain your Boxer on two smaller meals a day, and to restrict exercise immediately after eating, so as to lesson the likelihood of bloat (or gastric torsion).
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Wow, I am surprised at that one Alicia...It could have been worded differently and have a lot more information regarding whites, but to just make a statement like that?
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Perhaps that's aimed more towards the people looking to show their dogs?
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

They can cheerfully STUFF IT %-(  Blitzen says she doesn't want to be in their stupid club anyway :wink:
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

That's worded poorly; the emphasis should be on "purchase", as this article was written before the ABC Code of Ethics was changed to allow the (limited) sale of white Boxer puppies.  In other words, the prohibition isn't against whites, but against a breeder who would profit from from the sale of those whites.  The ABC article (also on the website) about coat colors ends with this statement:

What is important for all to remember is that in fairness to all, there should be no embarrassment for those loving and owning a white or check Boxer. There are many Boxers (including white check, parti-colored, fawn and brindle) with other undesirable traits that also should not be used for breeding. The color of a Boxer's coat has nothing to do with the wonderful Boxer personality we all have grown to covet and love.
Both articles do need to be updated to reflect the changes in the Code of Ethics (the coat color one also mentions the restrictions on registering and selling whites); I hope to effect that change this year (honestly I plumb forgot about it until you brought it up, so thanks!).
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Well the only thing that is frustrating is how some breeders might interpret this.  And what are they going to do with those whites that they might not sell?  They end up like the poor little pup chance(i dont know if he has been renamed yet sorry)that gets stuffed in a box to be "taken care of" but thankfully he was rescued.  Also i have had a not so intelligent im sure byb try to sell me one saying it was rare and that is so frustrating
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

I suspect, though, that those breeders are not ones who know or care what the ABC has to say on the matter anyway.  ;)
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

And what about this part?  

Ear cropping is appropriate for the well-being of the breed......The erect, cropped ear reduces the potential for infections and hematomas that often beset long-eared breeds.


Is ear cropping really done for the well-being of the breed?  How does cutting off ears for aesthetic purposes help further the breed?
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Is ear cropping really done for the well-being of the breed?  How does cutting off ears for aesthetic purposes help further the breed?
The answer to your question is in the part you posted.  Cropped dogs in general have fewer ear infections (though the incidence is not as high in uncropped Boxers as it is in longer- and hairy-eared breeds such as Cocker Spaniels), and hematomas in cropped dogs are very unusual.  (Having recently gone through a hematoma with one of my uncropped girls, I can quite confidently say that cropping at 10-12 weeks would have been far less uncomfortable for her than the hematoma surgery and recovery was!)  

However further exploration of the ABC site has revealed that the updated version of that "Buying A Boxer Puppy" article has been incorporated into the "Meet the Boxer" article, here:

In that updated version, the statement about not purchasing white Boxers has been removed, and the statement about ears has been changed (to coincide with the revised breed standard) to this:

[quote:37vkazsv]Ear cropping is customary and appropriate but not required
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Newcastle\";p=\"68106 said:
The answer to your question is in the part you posted.  Cropped dogs in general have fewer ear infections (though the incidence is not as high in uncropped Boxers as it is in longer- and hairy-eared breeds such as Cocker Spaniels), and hematomas in cropped dogs are very unusual.  (Having recently gone through a hematoma with one of my uncropped girls, I can quite confidently say that cropping at 10-12 weeks would have been far less uncomfortable for her than the hematoma surgery and recovery was!)  
Interesting, because from my readings on here I came to the conclusion that was a myth.  There definitely was some debate but I never saw any medical studies to back it up.  Perhaps if I knew this was true, I would have considered ear cropping (although I didn't get my pup until after 12 weeks so probably was too late anyway).  Thanks for the clarification, I'll have to do some more research on the subject because I thought it was purely aesthetic surgery.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

[quote="Newcastle\";p=\"68047":39j93ajk]That's worded poorly; the emphasis should be on "purchase", as this article was written before the ABC Code of Ethics was changed to allow the (limited) sale of white Boxer puppies.
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Well all I have to say is......

I LOVE MY WHITES  :lol:
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Forgot to add the link to the "Meet the Boxer" page, which has the revised "Buying A Boxer Puppy" article incorporated:
http://www.americanboxerclub.org/unique.html

There definitely was some debate but I never saw any medical studies to back it up.
Well, no - who would pay for them?  There's no money to be made in either result, after all.  :)  We do have over a century of experience and observation, though, from both this country where for a long time every Boxer was cropped, and from countries like the UK where cropping has been illegal for almost as long as the breed has been in existence.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll have to do some more research on the subject because I thought it was purely aesthetic surgery.
It is considered mostly aesthetic in this day and age, except for those Boxers who are working as service, police, hunting, herding dogs; most dogs aren't involved in jobs that would lead to the issues to which uncropped ears are often prone.  Ear infections are fairly common but not generally so severe as to require cropping (though I know a few that have); hematomas, as well as split/cracked ear tips (which are nearly impossible to heal and sling blood like you would not believe!) are quite often secondary to infections, so if you can deal with the infection quickly you often won't have the other problems.  (Of course that's not a guarantee - my girl's ears weren't really bothering her but she happened to shake her head the wrong way when she was in her crate, and banged her ear on the top of it, and got a hematoma.)
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

[quote="sully\";p=\"68110":eek:2l34cdf][quote
Interesting, because from my readings on here I came to the conclusion that was a myth.
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

I've never done the ears, partly because I considered it unecessary and partly because I perfer the uncropped look...biggest issue has been a case of ear mites...we got the medicine, got it cleared up and then made sure his ears were dried after a swim or bath and he's been fine since.  But that is just my experience and I can see how cropping could help prevent some problems.

Regarding whites, I think they're beautiful, and oddly enough, when I got my first boxer I didn't know anything about BYBs or really boxers as a breed. Rufus was a beautiful little guy who was very lightly brindled...his mother was pure white.  Loved my lil guy to like crazy but man I wish I could go back in time knowing what I know now and smack that breeder around!  

(the bitch was a beauty though)
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

The Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA) opposes ear cropping and tail docking in the dog for cosmetic purposes  The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) strongly encourages veterinarians to counsel owners about the risks and lack of medical benefits before agreeing to perform these procedures.
Yes, the AVMA is fairly unique among VMAs in their lack of a strong AR agenda; they are generally moderate in opinion and support the (sadly, all too novel) concept of medical decisions being made between owner and vet, based on the individual circumstance rather than an across-the-board recommendation.  Which, of course, makes eminent sense to me. :)
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Newcastle\";p=\"68256 said:
Well, no - who would pay for them?  There's no money to be made in either result, after all.  :)  We do have over a century of experience and observation, though, from both this country where for a long time every Boxer was cropped, and from countries like the UK where cropping has been illegal for almost as long as the breed has been in existence.
Well it may be true, and may be fact, but there really is no way to prove it as a fact.  Therefore, I think it's irresponsible to present the statement in such a manner that is indeed fact (and say it such in a matter of fact way that is common knowledge).    

I would say at the very least this thread tells us that the ABC needs to revisit the way they provide information.
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

Well it may be true, and may be fact, but there really is no way to prove it as a fact.
And there's no way to prove that it is not fact.  100+ years of experience and observation from those who know the breed best is not worthless information, after all. :)  

I would say at the very least this thread tells us that the ABC needs to revisit the way they provide information.
Perhaps (and in fact they have); on the other hand, one could argue that what this thread tells us is that some readers need to revisit the way the receive information. :)  Obviously not everyone reads the statements the same way, or I would get far more e-mails questioning them than I do (I believe I've received one or two about the whites; I don't think I've ever received one about the cropping).

However, as I noted, the official information from the ABC has changed from the statement to which you object; there's little point arguing what is simply an oversight in a website update. :)
 

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Re: I thought we were over this "White's are bad"

:D i love my whitey girl  :D also love all the others..i love her ears floppy ..think some look cute cropped but personally wouldnt do it..cant see the reason behind cutting their ears..we just make sure they stay clean..simple answer...
 
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