Intact vs neutered

Matt74 · 2018-03-29

Was just curious if any members on here have had male boxers left intact their entire lives. Reason I ask, is because I saw research involving boxers where they recommended waiting till full skeletal maturity and less instances of common boxer issues. So I'm at the point of where I was going to get him neutered and I'm thinking what is the point. Iv'e heard all the warnings of, aggression, dominance, mounting, etc. and I can say Zuke has none of those issues. So is there really any reason to get it done? Because it sounds like the benefits of staying intact out way neutering.

chip18

· #7 · Mar 31, 2018

Time flies doesn't it??? You've done your job well ... so your option is what is best for my dog?? You got it right so "Job Well Done."

That said ... since I "unintentionally" Proofed the concept of "Neutering" will fix issues, I'll share my observations with that as a solution. LOL and most likely ... you know where this is heading?? And my answer, observation and experience is uh ... "NO," it won't!

Neutering to fix "Behavioural Issues" is usually the first resort of the desperate??? And typically it makes ... no difference??? We don't really see a lot of "Bad Dog" Boxers on here ?? Dogs with serious "I'm gonna hurt somebody or cause injury to my owner because I am such a tool dogs on here??? But on GermanshepardForum, we did!

Day after Day ... Week after Week, they rolled in all the time! It never ended and usually, getting them "Fixed" would be suggested ... LOL yeah ... "Good Luck" with that ... I would say.

AFAIK, the biggest PIA Dominate Male Dog, I was aware of in my neighborhood was uh mine??? He was a foster fail that I got at 7 months and he was already "Fixed" when I got him. And being "Fixed" did not mean "Crap to him???"

Most likely he was fixed at 6 months?? So myth one dispelled ... stunted growth??? At 116 lbs, 8 months later or so he was ... way oversize ... so that did not happen (stunted growth) ??? And then we had the Pack fights with my other Dominate Neutered males (and my trip to the ER breaking up one of those fights) and the out right hostility to uh "everyone" aside from me and my wife ... he was not a fan of people!

In theory ... since he was "fixed" he should have been "No big deal??" And a "Wobble Dog" on top of everything else ... so "he should have been safe enough??? Clearly such was not the case??? Oh well it worked out well in the long run! Most likely, I put to much faith "unknowingly" in the "neutering thing" so I was kinda slow to see issues developing??"

And ironically enough and although I did not do the other dog thing ... he got along great with unknown dogs??? Enough so that I understand why a lot of trainers use GSD's and Mal's in there rehab work with aggressive dogs! I've not seen anyone I follow use a Boxer in that work??? Personally I feel ... that if a Mal, can do that work then so can a Boxer??? Both are kinda pigged head and stubborn but I have never had a Mal ... so I don't know???

At any rate it's your call as to "fixed" or not??? I think I'd vote no myself? Now if you decide later on to add a girl ... Boxer or GSD, that might be a different issue???

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chip18

· #8 · Mar 31, 2018

Lindar51 said:
I have also researched as so has my vet who is now good with not neutering until 12-18 months, once the bone growth plates have set. There is also significant research on cancer and behavior. When I was your neutering/spaying was basically unheard of so were all the illnesses and behavior & joint problems in dogs. I have a male st poodle pup. I haven't decided what I will do. I'm leaning toward neuter @ 2. We shall see. And I am learning more about desexing rather than neuter but I haven't enough info on that yet. I think if as a family you are responsible that your dogs does not get the opportunity to run get loose you are safe not to neuter however many people just leave their dogs outside where they can jump fences, or gates left open they should be neutered. The whole neutering/spayng became popular because of over population of pets.

Desexing is a thing, but it's kinda of expensive and not very common??

Most likely to have it done would be a "road trip??" And unless I missed it?? You have not yet posted a picture of the new puppy yet??? So what's the deal?? Are you hanging out on a "Poodle forum??'

You have friends here and we'd like to see your new dog! Heck one of my lifetime favorite dogs from childhood, is a "Basset Hound!" Don't know if I ever will get one?? But I think they are cool!

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· #11 · Apr 1, 2018

Matt74 said:
It really does fly. It feels like just a few months ago I was getting him, and now I'm like "holy cow he is 2 already!".

I'm guessing like Lindar pointed out the original reason for neuter/spay was because of over population and strays. Thats a noble cause and I would say its probably not a bad idea for most people. It would be interesting to know when all the other things got added to it. Less aggressive, less dominance, better behavior, etc.... almost like they were trying to scare people into getting the dog fixed and there was no other option.

As for another pup Chip, I know I said I would like to get another Boxer or GSD when he was about 2 or 3, but after doing careful research and how much time this guy still takes up with my day, it will definitely be closer to when he is either 4-5. lol

It will be a male for sure. Nothing against female dogs but I get the males and the GF gets the females. lol

Aww well never say never.

Lindar makes some good points and what she laid is why I got my first dog, my Band Dog fixed at one year. That's what your supposed to do?? I had no idea, they were gonna cut his freaking nut's off??? I was not happy!!! But whatever he was fine.

Now Struddell ... well my "Baby Girl!" She was 4 or 5 before I had her fixed. And it took that long because I was terrified of having her put under! The ACE and Boxer thing. I asked my vet about "ACE" and Boxers first and he said "No problem" we will use something else." That part worked out fine.

But I only did it (had her fixed) because I thought that is what responsible dogs owners do?? I had no idea that what responsible dog owners do is what I had been doing for uh ... years! They keep there intact female from getting pregnant???

Struddell came through the procedure just fine! If she was a tool before the procedure, she was still a tool afterwards ... nothing changed.

But I was a wreck, because I did not really want to have it done??? And I did not understand at the time, that I was already doing what a responsible dog owner with a intact dog was already doing ... keep there intact female from getting pregnant?? In my defense ... that was just a by product of my "being uh extremely anal" as regards unknown dogs???

If you have a "NO unknown" dog policy, then your intact female ... is not gonna get pregnant, anyway?? In any case with "Struddell" after being fixed ... nothing changed. She was still just as goofy and silly as always. But I felt guilty for having put her through that, even though she did not seem to care??

The only thing I would have to say that might be applicable ... is I guess I'm a "Male Chauvinist Pig???" I like big dogs and usually that means "males??" But "Boxers" LOL ... I luv the girls! They seem to be , pig Headed, Stubborn and seriously goofy!! They are not "eager to please!" Cause you know "whatever it is you want to do?? Is not as much fun as what I want to do??"

With Boxers ... the girls are uh ... "Different??" And keeping two intact dogs in the same household ... would be a different level of challenge???

I have never done that myself, but my next Boxer will be a female and she will not be fixed ... ever! Her buddy will be a male of whatever breed??? I don't know?? So I will have see how that works out???

Aww well rambling again I suppose?? But to the point, for you and your dog right now , I'd say NO, need to fix. Your already doing what a responsible dog owner should be doing.

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· #15 · Apr 3, 2018

CynBoxerMom said:
I struggled with this when our older boys were about 6 months old. We were told the same thing about aggression if they don't get fixed.... Obviously I can't say they would have been different if we did not get them fixed, however, I strongly believe they have their own personalities regardless.

Jax, my brindle alpha has always been the dominant one, he barks, he used to like other dogs but now is very picky.

Tundra, his fawn brother, is super laid back, likes being indoors more, loves pillows and cuddling, he gets along with other dogs so long as they aren't aggressive and scare him.

Bandit, our 1 year-old had not descended (had cryptorchidism) We waited until he was about 8 months to neuter him. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wish we would have waited on his neuter. That's a longer story.... but based on what we researched, there are cancer and other risks to waiting to neuter in this condition. Some of the data also said they may become more aggressive due to the testicles being internal which could cause higher testosterone levels. True he is still a puppy, but we didn't see any decline in his hyperactivity, barking or encouraging his brothers to play with him.
He is becoming more of a cuddler, but I think that's him aging and continuing to find his place in the pack.

They all love people, have typical boxer traits overall, but they for sure each have their own personalities that I don't think neutering has changed.

Sounds like you are being a responsible owner and you have to do what is right for you and Zuke.

WOW three Boxers??? That is an impressive amount of ... "Boxerish" for a non Breeder! But all Boy's ... LOL, your missing a "big part" of the Boxer experience.

The boy's are a piece of cake. IE ... eager to please, you! The girls ... not so much??? Way, way back in the day ... when I got Struddell ... I wanted a boy! Specifically, I wanted the boy standing on top of the pile of puppies barking his head off! Now that I felt ... was a dog! But all the males were take???

So I chose, the puppy that climbed out of the pile, came to me, sat in my lab and did not move?? And then mom came up and did likewise??? She planted herself next to me and did not move??? She climbed into my lap and promptly fell asleep???

I wanted a male dog but Struddell and mom ... chose me??? I remember thinking well this one is a "Ball Dynamite" ... "NOT!" But I wanted a "White Boxer! So screw it ... I'll take this one?? LOL ... that was "apparently" the only moment of calmness, in Struddell's life??

I do remember reading, the girls are different?? Rare among dogs ... in Boxers, the females are the more "Domaniate" of the two sexs?? Well whatever ... I wanted a White Boxer and whatever a girl it would be?? So I'll take this little White Boxer of Dynamite ... Not!

LOL ... I got "Schooled!" For all I know ... Struddell ... had actually been acting like an A Hole ... all day long??? And when I came over she was exhausted???

But after a day of rest .... I saw the real real puppy when I brought her home?? Pig headed and stubborn! Or as I am want to say, "well whatever it is you want me to do, is not as much as fun as what I want to do!" Mr Toads "Wild Ride" ... here come!!

Now with my first GSD ... I got sandbagged??? But my first Boxer ... I knew what what was up?? And I had read that the girls were uh ... different?? Pigged headed to the max! "Whatever it is you want me to do?? Is not as much fun as whatever it is I want to do!

I still remember .... whatever command, I was trying for, the upteenth time! And I could see the little wheels spinning in her head spin and "Boom" there it was! Instant compliance and from that day forward ... "Struddell" became a piece of a cake!

From that point on she was spectacular! But it was work to get there! In rescue work, with Boxers ... I always get males?? And whatever there issues are ... they are easy to train?? Pretty much spectacularly so far for ...me.

But I have not had the chance to work with a girl in rescue??? The boy's, want to do whatever makes you happy! The girls want to do whatever makes them happy.

It does seem to be a thing?? And the only Boxer I have met that you would not want your dog to meet in a Dog Park (which I don't go to) ... was a Girl!
She was a "Flashy" and safely contained behind, a fence on leash with owner present ... she stared at "Rocky" ... 116 lbs of Male Over Size Working Line GSD ... like he was "Raw Meat! I was stunned??? Long way of saying ... the girls are different???

But whatever ... and even though as a general rule I like big dogs. My next bigger is stil gonna be girl! i find them kinda cool!

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· #16 · Apr 3, 2018

Matt74 said:
It really does fly. It feels like just a few months ago I was getting him, and now I'm like "holy cow he is 2 already!".

I'm guessing like Lindar pointed out the original reason for neuter/spay was because of over population and strays. Thats a noble cause and I would say its probably not a bad idea for most people. It would be interesting to know when all the other things got added to it. Less aggressive, less dominance, better behavior, etc.... almost like they were trying to scare people into getting the dog fixed and there was no other option.

As for another pup Chip, I know I said I would like to get another Boxer or GSD when he was about 2 or 3, but after doing careful research and how much time this guy still takes up with my day, it will definitely be closer to when he is either 4-5. lol

It will be a male for sure. Nothing against female dogs but I get the males and the GF gets the females. lol

Hmm ... well sadly dogs don't live that long.

So forget the neturing thing. I think if your hesitant (Now) ... it's not really about your current dogs age?? It's more about screwing up what you have now??? It's a pretaint point right and right now your dynamics are idea! And if you add another dog ... is it gonna screw up what you have now???

I'm not in "lecture mode" as it were ... but I was where you are! And generally speaking ... when I had only my first dog ... my "formerly" DA ... American Band Dawg and added my first dog APBT/Boxer mix (sigh another male) I could not have been happier! That could not have worked out better!

Gunther luv'ed his new pal! Generally speaking "two dogs" are no big deal! Boy are girl ... I doubt you will have issues??? Two dogs are a "Pair" ... three dogs are a "Pack!!!" Three dogs and dog number three is ... where you could have "issues??!" Two Dog are a pair" three dogs are "pack!" Crap changes with three! And if dog number three is a "GSD???" Well one best have there crap together! Lesson learned... the hard way!

But you have one dog. So your concern I would think??? Is ... if I add another dog, is it going to screw up what I have now??? Well you know ... crap free ... possibly??? But ... Boy or girl, most likely not?? The first rule before adding a second dog ... is to have one well trained dog before adding a second dog! And near as I can tell ... you already have that???

So I would say ... you are good to go, if you want to add a second dog ... now??? Your current dog is not really a issue?? It sounds like you've done well with him and he will help you train your other dog!!

So much so, that you will have to be careful! Dog number two ... will cue off your first dog! You will have to train(the second dog) separately or you will think ... that he/she understands things that they do not! They will cue of the first dog! I saw that happen myself and I got lucky, car door think. When I took Struddell out without Gunther ... I got lucky, my bad!

So just saying ... two to three years from "now" is a long time in dog's year! Screwing up what you have now is a big deal! But generally speaking if one "already has one well trained dog" then adding a second dog ... is no big deal?? Now if you want to add a third dog and it's a GSD??? LOL well then one beat have there crap together, ... lesson learned on that one! Just my thoughts.

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· #17 · Apr 3, 2018

Lindar51 said:
How did I not post a picture??? I have just been so busy with him I guess so here we go This is him at 16 weeks, he is now 17 weeks
View attachment 123945

He has been a handful but we are seeing light. You think boxer puppies are bouncy..well ya gotta meet this guy. Kai is a laid back boy compared to "Renn". However he is housebroken, sits, down...walks on loose lead, most times and waits. He will wait for food etc. but working at doorways.He is still mouthy but improving. He no longer is making me bleed, accidental of course his teeth are so sharp and he runs with mouth open. He has excellent recall, which I think is due to him being very bonded to me. He is good in his crate. I would like him to play with the boxer but the Kai was being abused by those shark teeth, he just stands there while puppy biting him but..Kai, the boxer loves this little guy and I see improvement. He always has his leash attached so I can quickly make corrections. We started puppy kindergarten, he already knows the stuff they are doing but he needs the social end. In the beginning I though what did I do, what did I get myself into but now I am pretty happy. We will have our moments I'm sure but as long as we keep at it we will in the end have a good companion. Oh and he weighs 30 lbs already.

LOL so ... he finally shows up.

Dog number one on the top of Dog IQ charts! Personally I think those top five dogs are "PIA's!" But Poodles are not really know for HA so your good there.

Soo ... it's a Poodle ... it's kinda different here??? Sooo ... I have to ask ... are you gonna "Rock this this look for your guy??

I'm not a Poodle guy ... but if I were?? This would be something I'd, do so ... I'm just asking. He's a handsome guy in any case! Thanks for posting.

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· #21 · Apr 3, 2018

Lindar51 said:
Thank you all. I have no idea of which look he will have as he ages. More than likely whatever is less work for me..I'm getting old. LOL

Well it sounds like ... Pink and the fancy cut is out then??

I don't know much of Poodles, cept you will need a groomer. I like low minimum maintenance dogs. Rocky my GSD ... came as quite a surprise to me??? The fur, the fur ... it was constant brushing with him, I was stunned???

I did meet one miniature Poodle, on my job. And he was .... "extremely" well behaved with company!! He had the unique ability to uh ... stay out of companies face??? My Struddell and Gunther were uh pretty embarrassing in comparison. :crazyeye:

You've got a handome guy in anycase and don't let your Boxer teach him any bad habits.

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· #23 · Apr 3, 2018

Matt74 said:
It started as an age thing, where I didn't want to do it until he was fully mature. I guess you are right in a way though Chip, because there is a part of me that loves the way he is now after 2 years of training and I don't want any of that to change at all.

I pretty much made my decision I'm going to leave him intact. Should be a fun vet visit as his yearly is coming up and I know that will be the 1st thing she mentions. lol Although she did respect my opinion when I told her that I was firm on at least waiting till he was 2, and she never brought it up.

As for bringing in another pup, I figure waiting at least another year will be best for both of us. There are still things we are fine tuning, off leash work, concentrating on me when there are distractions, etc. I would like to have those areas of training a bit better before I add another ball of crazy.

Oh by and large you'll be fine, when you do add a second dog. About the only heads up I'll add is that "because" you have that first well trained dog ... you have to be more "aware???" Of what dog 3 two actually knows and understands???

Dog number one, can make dog number two, easier to train, which is great! But it can be illusion?? If the two are always together??? The second dog may not actually understand the commands?? They cue off dog number one, ie I'll do what he does.

Car Proofing is a big one for me. My dogs don't exit the vehicle without an explicit command. I used Gunther to train that with Struddell but I never proofed her??? She seemed to understand so job done?? But ... she was always with Gunther in the car. And then one day I took her to the store alone , parked the car got out and opened the back door to get something and Studdell jumped out ... WTH???

Now she did not go anywhere but that's not the point. I started to yell at her but then I realized what had happened??? She did not really understand the rules! She cued off Gunther, he would wait I would call him and then I would call her.

After that ... I started to train her separately, some sessions together and some sessions apart. So it was two separate walking sessions for awhile. It was no big deal but it can end badly if you think , your dog knows a behaviour that they do not fully understand, ... lesson learned!

And then many years sigh ... forgotten Rocky!! No separate one on one walks with him ... open desert so why bother??? LOL .... lesson learned again ... the hard way!! Some people like their dogs are kinda "pig headed." :chair:

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· #24 · Apr 3, 2018

Lindar51 said:
LOL Thanks Chip...itss the boxer who is well behaved so hopefully puppy won't teach him ay bad habits. When the puppy is crazy he bites and jumps on Kai, Kai will just stand there and do NOTHING...he one time made Kai cry as he hurt him with those teeth, again NOTHING hence the tether on the puppy /and or crate time so he doesn't totally annoy.

Hmmm well I must say, that sounds fairly unusual???

It sounds like Kai is actually a "Calm" Boxer??? Is that the case??? Does he engage with the puppy and just does not like the crazy??? I would expect there to more activatice playing involving involved??? Running, circling, spinning hopping on the back, bark,bark and punching in the face??? Does Kai, not do any of that????

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· #27 · Apr 4, 2018

Lindar51 said:
Nope Kai is a calm laid back boy. He will go into the bend to say he wants to play but no barking, no jumping he never ever jumps. Now outside he will run and jump around by himself but he doesn't really play with puppy yet. Maybe once the puppy is not using her teeth on him. He wants to play but doesn't know what to think about this biting. In the house he is always calm, no running no jumping, puppy or not. Even when someone comes in, he gets all wiggly wants to be petted but then goes and lies down after getting attention. He is a good boy! I knew I'd never ever get another like him.

Oh wow ... yeah that does sound like the norm??? He sounds like a "No Drama Obama," kinda dog instead of "Mr Toad's Wild Ride??"

Most likely a puppy like you have now, in a Boxer would be hard to find??? Training Calmness into a Dog, is a "thing." And it does not come naturally to Boxers??? Playing well with others does take some doing but usually the Boxers are the instigators??? At any rate, maybe tug toys are a solution???

No teeth on fur as it were ... just a thought.

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· #28 · Apr 4, 2018

Matt74 said:
Really good point. I actually read a bit about that in my research of getting another dog. They recommend separate walking, training etc for the 1st few months because of exactly what you said.

Most likely BTE2 would have some great input on the two dogs topic??? But being "aware" that "this" can/could happen is more important then a strict ... how long does/should it take to train dog number two???

In the extreme, (first hand experience) dog number one can train dog number two and if they always go together everywhere all the time??? One would never dog number two does not, really know crap???

I did that by accident with Struddell, it was a rough time for me when I got her. And aside from potty training ... I did not much in the way of one on one training with her??? It was just that one on one trip to the store that woke me up??? It was literally one year of minimum input from me.

We/they were always together, I'd give Gunther (X command) and he would execute. Then I would repeat for Struddell and she would do the same. She "appeared" to understand but was she actually paying attention to me or mimicking Gunther ... I did not actually know????

Then comes the importance of "Proofing Commands!" Once the dog knows and understands the command?? Will they execute reliably regardless of distractions???

That was not something I was particularly concerned with ... save for keeping them safe my Band Dawg (Gunther) and Struddell. Car Proofing and on the Lawn (you don't leave the front lawn) without explicit permission. And that (on the lawn) was an anti theft measure for Struddell! Because she "would" happily walk or drive off with uh anyone ... if left to her on devices! But dogs default to what they know and now for her it became ..."well I'd ;like to go with you but Dad said ... "On the Lawn!" Cat's, Dogs or joggers on the sidewalk made no difference ... I have to say here! They were free to move about the lawn ... but could not leave it! Worked out fine.

Worked out fine, they luv'd people and I did not do other dogs. Life was good ... I got this "Dog Training stuff down! And ... then came Rocky!!! My first WL GSD or as I termed him a big furry dog with a pointy face ... no big deal???

Three dogs at the time was apparently one to many ... 6 months of no issues and then one day ... it was.

ER here we come (breaking up pack fights) no Boxer involvement, good times, good times!

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· #30 · Apr 5, 2018

CynBoxerMom said:
My husband calls me the crazy boxer lady! :clown:
I'm OK with that.

I talked him into a third boxer a couple of years ago for a variety of reasons- knowing when one of our boys passes, the other will be somewhat lost; I felt we have the means and time to care for another one; some may be due to our youngest son getting closer to leaving the house.

Long story short, males seem to fit best with us. We got Bandit at the end of May last year. Jax has become less accepting of many dogs over the last couple of years. We thought he'd be OK with a puppy, and he has been. Bandit turned 1 year-old this last weekend. He has integrated well.

Aww well my basis for "Boxer Girls" is pretty clear, I would think???
But the girls were an accident for me, as I was a Male Dogs kinda guy! But when the crap went down many years ago ... and I needed a "Boxer" in my life (now) only females were available, at my locale "Breeder."

I do remember reading that rare among dogs, ... in Boxer's, the females are the more Dominant of the two sexes??? At the time ... I did not care. Boy or girl ... what's the difference??? I wanted/needed a Boxer now! So a girl it was! And ... that book I read was right!!!

The females are different??? The males are more eager to do whatever makes "you happy!" The females ... don't really care about you! They are more like ... "why should I care about what you want???"

The girls are lot a whole lot more crazy in a smaller "Boxer" package! That worked for me.

In rescue work I have worked with a few ... uh "supposedly" difficult male Boxers?? I found them to be a piece of cake! Eager to please as it were. IE what do you want me to do??? But I've not had the chance to work with a rescue female Boxer."

Anyway I don't tend to ask a lot of questions ... I've been told in the past. But I will ask one now! As when I went from two dogs to three .... I messed up, big time!

But I messed up unknowingly?? I went from "Mossler World" dogs these guys,:
Molossers breeds (Molosser dogs, Molossers, Mastiff breeds)

Dog's derived from Mastiffs ... ie APBT, and Boxers etc to a GSD and I got hammered ... hard????

In a nutshell ...that would be ... I don't like being number two in a pack ... GSD's are ... apparently "High Rank Drive" dogs?? Boxers/Molosser are low rank drive dogs ... my bad??? And add in, oh yeah ... I don't much care for uh ... anyone outside of my Human Pack ... either ... IE Human Aggression???!!! Oh well live and learn as they say ... worked out well in the long run.

But you went from two Boxers to three?? Were there any serious issues to be found??? Did the pack get along well???

Because as they say, "Leerburgh, two dogs are a pair ... three dogs are a pack" ... crap can change! :crazyeye:

Did you have any issues with three Boxers???

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· #32 · Apr 5, 2018

Lindar51 said:
Thats a thought will try it,(tug toys) though Kai has a soft mouth and may not tug either, he is unusual for a boxer. Maybe we taught this calmness ...and maybe we will teach the poodle too.....in time

Aww it's just a tool, the tug toy. And most likely, it will be most useful for the new guy to redirect him. IE ... get your toy!

Train the new guy for that and it may keep him off Kai's back ... literally.

And Kai ... don't know at this point he may or may not care about toys??? I thought all dogs luv'd toy's ... just a given?? But my Rocky ...just did not care about toy's period ... end of story??? No tug, no playing with toy's ... just nothing??? That was an unexpected PIA???

Leerburgh, has a DVD on the "Power of Tug." It's kinda pricey and I have not seen it but most likely there is value to be found there. You maybe able to rent it at :https://www.bowwowflix.com/

You don't want to hammer the new guy, to keep him out of Kai's face but if he learns to prefer the tug, then maybe he can entice Kai to play with him???

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· #35 · Apr 10, 2018

CynBoxerMom said:
We haven't really had any issues bringing the puppy in. One of your previous posts about Rocky reassured me that it is OK that Jax doesn't get along with all other dogs. I felt initially that it was my fault as an owner since he was fine for the first couple of years, we socialized him etc... and then it seemed one day he changed. I don't feel at fault anymore and we know he needs slow or 'no' introduction to other dogs.

He's the alpha boxer and we didn't want to disrupt the current pack, Tundra being happy as the beta. We had introduced a male rescue at one time to try to help the rescue socialize, and Jax did OK with him.

We wanted a male rescue to adopt as our third baby, however, we were always higher on the female boxer lists. We knew the females tend to dominate in boxers, and I've talked to people who have had several dogs over the years and it seems this can be somewhat common in other breeds too.

Our main concerns with bringing in a rescue was that they were good with other dogs and fate seemed to keep offering us females.

Let me say that I believe in and support rescue organizations and all that they do for millions of dogs. We had a bad experience, but I think it was rare for the boxers behavior and for an adoption.

We had a beautiful sweet one-year-old female reverse brindle rescue for about 6 weeks, about two years ago. I don't bring it up often as I think she was unusual for a boxer and there are still a lot of emotions when I think about her. It is a key reason why we got a puppy and is relevant to having 3 boxers, so I'll share. This is around the time I found the forum because I wanted to find a way to work through the issues....I was determined that she was home now...

To keep it short, we found out she was never good with other dogs by her original owner after we had to give her back to the rescue. The original owner had her since she left her litter. She said that she would randomly attack her older smaller dog, and she bit the owner which required stitches.

This made me feel a little better about our experience and having to give her up, but also a bit mad. So- our experience went OK for the first couple of weeks. It was Jax & Tundra- they were around 85Lbs each, and Hope was about 55 Lbs.

We were worried about Jax accepting her, but these two hit it off like gangbusters and they played a lot. We supervised them closely and every now and then there was a non-playful growl as they were working out the new pack structure/ acclimating.

Ironically, it was Tundra, the big sweet baby beta, who is good with most other dogs that it impacted badly. She wanted a toy he had and she suddenly grabbed onto his neck and I had to remove her; the next attack was a few days later. He understandably avoided her and we were more cautious/ aware. The third and last attack on Tundra was when my son was giving Tundra attention and she wanted it. She was (we were all) lucky Tundra never tried to fight back. She didn't draw blood but latched on tightly. We couldn't have him scared in his own home for a choice we made, and did not want things to escalate.

I call Hope sweet because she is a great only dog. I believe our part in her life was to help her get from where she was to her furever home. She went to a retired couple who had boxers in the past. She is an only dog and is spoiled and happy. I don't condone her behavior with Tundra and I think it is a very rare boxer that does something like this.

After that experience, a male puppy was the only option that fit what my husband would agree to and what we thought both of our boys would accept. We never want our boys to feel unsafe in their home.

Jax and Tundra were OK with the puppy. Tundra quickly learned that this little guy wasn't going to hurt him and they all play and sleep and eat together.

Jax and Bandit play much more than Tundra (that's their personalities). Bandit will get in their faces and talk to them or taunt them with a toy. Every now at then there's a correcting growl from Jax or Tundra. Bandit has learned when to let them be. It's not common that they growl at him.

There is no food or toy aggression. They are still working out their pack order to some degree and I wonder if Bandit is working into the alpha position. He's started drinking first and eating first...I may inquire on this on a later thread.

Up till now I'd say they all get along great. I have a friend who has adopted many dogs over the years and has had up to 5 at a time, mostly English Setters. She was amazed at how well Bandit integrated and settled into the pack.

I can't say what is or is not usual for 3 male boxers since this is our first real go-round with three. We don't want more than 3. Our boys have full run of the house and a dogie door for the backyard. They sleep with us in our room (we have a futon in the room for them, but we end up sharing it due to being crowded out at times). They know we are the primary alphas, and they know the basic commands. They all try to be in my lap at the same time on occasion, or will come up and crowd another one out so they get right next to Mom. There's no growling or fighting for any of this (not that it would be tolerated). There are the looks of disappointment and pouting at times....maybe that's in my head...

Sorry this is so long...I think it gives a better story/ picture.

Sorry for the late reply ... I work 24 hour shifts these day so .... I "disappear at times."

And no, I don't expect you have all the answers for all three male dog owners?? But I will say that your experience, is what I expected would happen when I went up to three dogs?? But for me ... it did not work out so well??? But for me ... my dog number three was not a Boxer??? It was a GSD! And while I do have more to add about the "girl Boxer's" in particular ... in my case "Struddell was not a factor (directly) in the "Chaos" that was to ensue.

The pack fights, the ensuing trip to the ER for me for stitches and the people thing! Struddell was not a factor ... AFAIK?? She was never involved in any of the male on male household dust ups???

Now it could be that Rocky my (Over Size Working Line GSD) copped an attitude because he felt Struddell was his dog??? I don't know??? But I do know that Struddell "Adored Rocky???" She had spent her whole life with Gunther but Rocky (GSD) was something special for her???

I never saw "issues coming???" And there were none for about six months???
And then at about 14 months old and 116 lbs ... Rocky decided that Struddell, was "his" dog and Gunther ... had to go????

Struddell did not contribute to this issue directly??? But because she was "Daddy's Girl," I let her dictate how I trained Rocky??? Sooo no one on training with him for a very long time because well Struddell did not like that???

Rocky was "apparently" the wrong dog, wrong Breed, wrong approach for that to work??? Gunther, passed and I still had serious Rocky issues??? And now to fix them ... I had to tell her "NO!" You have to stay home! It's a boy's night out as it were. It was only many weeks later that Marilyn told me that Struddell was having a cow when left her at home???

I do want to say ... that you did much better at protecting your original dogs then I did. Gunther bore the full brunt of Rocky's fury while I got my act together ... my bad.

But it seems like despite the issues, you did good! You "discovered" that your girl had issues??? That rescue, kinda used you as a temporary foster home ... what issues does this dog have??" And you discovered them and then managed to find her a more suitable home.

And while that was not your original plan ... I just wanna say, once again ... you did good! :cheers:

Yours was a long post and I kinda went on one of my usual tangents??? Sooo I got a part two coming up ... more Girl centric as it were!

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chip18

· #37 · Apr 12, 2018

CynBoxerMom said:
I'm sure you did what you felt was best for you and your pack, and that you had the best of intentions.

It's like parenting...we didn't get an all inclusive instruction manual for every situation, personality, etc..., however, we are evolving and learning from the things that go well and those that don't go so well so we can do better in the future. :cheers:

Thank You, ... it was hard and overwhelming and Gunther bore the wrath of Rocky's fury while I was getting my act together???

There was seven months of "no issues that I saw??" And then out of the "blue" all hell broke lose??? So it was seven months before I realized ... I had a problem here?? And yeah ... I could have easily returned Rocky back to "Dog Town Rescue" as I volunteered for them. But i just couldn't because of guilt and pig headedness??? Rocky was not like this when I got him??? And what if he is now like this because of something I did???

He was fighting with Gunther my "American Band Dawg" and now ... a Danger to people also??? If I sent him back now ... he w2as a "Dead Walking???" Did I do this??? And there was never any "Boxer" involvement in any of the dust ups??? Struddell just flat stayed clear ... ie all these men are freaking crazy???

Threatening other dogs is one thing, but threatening people is quite another, that came a couple of weeks after Gunther passed??? But now ...he was a threat to people??? Did I do that??? I'd done the same thing with him that I did with my other dogs?? But it did not work???

I still remember ... nine years ago, when I first realized I had a people issue with this dog??? He "happened to be in Place" when company came over for the first time and I was next to him. He locked eyes on each guest, he greeted them like they were "Raw Meat??" And I heard low growl???? My Blood ran cold, WTH is this????

That was a new experience for me??? Struddell and Gunther Luv'ed people but "Rocky" my first WL GSD ...not so much??? Did I do this??? And yeah I could have returned him to "Dog Town" rescue anyway?? But if I did ...he was "A Dead Dog Walking!"

I was trapped, guilt kept me from returning him but at the time ... I was clueless as to how to stop the fighting??? The only salvation was Gunther ...he bore the random out of the attacks well! He never cared ...it was what he did! He never got seriously hurt ... me ... not so much! I still have the full use of my hand today because of Gunther! I messed up and my left hand slipped and landed in Gunther's jaws!! I remember thinking, "this is gonna hurt!!! But even with 116 lbs of ,out of control OS Wl GSD on his back, Gunther realized it was me and let go, he was a Great Dog!

After that last battle ... Gunther Passed due to unrelated issues, so now Rocky was Top Dog ... and I was seriously ticked off!!! At that point ... I was seriously ticked off and I recently Rocky greatly!!! But Marilyn stepped in and she said "you either let it go or return him to Dog Town!

That ticked me off but she was right! So with a deep effort ... I took a big sigh ... and let it go! And even today eight years later I remember a great weight being taken off my shoulders!

The people thing came later and while most would think ... this is the last freaking straw! I thought ... "Pay Back!" This people crap ... shall not stand!! At that point I stopped fighting him and started to "Out think him!" This people crap ...shall not stand but what to do??

Without going into a lot of detail ... I did what I should have done anyway! Disregarding ... the "Struddell" influence it now became simply me and Rocky ... I walked my dog. I showed him what I wanted and how I expected him to behave. And that worked out fine! He eventually met many strangers and he could go anywhere with me!! And it was "Positive Only???" He never got a single correction for any towards aggression toward strangers!! But while he was not now what I considered a "burden???" He did require a "lifetime of proper management!!" No one was allowed to touch him without my OK! Most of the time I would never say a word, but I would step between him and anyone that was overly curious about him??? Talk to me first and then maybe?? That was not my Boxer experience, which was more like if asked to pet my dog ... the answer was "ALWAYS' ... "Please Do."

But Rocky learned that I had his back and rare among GSD's ... he was very good at the vets! These days it is not uncommon for GSD's to have lots of issues with hands on by strangers,Drugs and Muzzles is not uncommon but Rocky was good with at the vets! And the other surprise to me ... was no Dog Aggression??? He was great with other dogs!!!

He saved me from getting into a dust up with an out of control Band Dawg by breaking a stay ... and standing next to me and smiling at the charging dog??? Sometimes dad does not, make good choices as it were??? :chair:

Rocky was both my greatest failure and my greatest success! But ...now I know stuff. And I'm gonna bet ... the first mistake you made with your girl, is the same mistake I made and pretty much "everyone does when they get a new dog???

IE here's the couch here's the remote ... make yourself comfortable??? What I found out many,many years after I made all of mistakes with my first rescue was the first link in this thread.:

German Shepherd Dog Forums - View Single Post - New Dog, Very Challenging

I ... did not do that, and not doing that ... did not work out so well, for me in the short run ... live and learn.

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