Is my female exhibiting aggression or is this just vocal play?

Oh yeah Juni is being a rhythms with with with Gus. I think some of it is play but some of it is dominance. Maybe time for some redirecting the play from a dominance thing. She needs to be corrected when she is ugly some of this seems to be passive aggressive on Gus's part too. Maybe it would be good to exercise them separately then let them spend some time together. Boxers are very vocal and play rough that is normal. How much time are they together? I would not leave them alone together until they get it all figured out who is the boss here. Do they get to go for walks together on leash? It seems they just need some more time. Most of the time these dynamics work themselves out but intervention is needed when one becomes the bully and they must know you are the pack leader neither one of them is. My dogs do the leg biting thing when they are playing too that's not abnormal as long as no one is bleeding or hurt I wouldn't worry too much about it. How are they when they are just hanging out do they settle down? Or is it always like this?

This may sound silly, but what kind of redirection tactics have you used/know of that work? Sometimes we try to get their attention or distract one of them with a toy or by getting them to sit. It works at times and not at others.

We have been walking them together but we can make the change of doing so separately. We will also take turns having them in the backyard and can continue that.

Currently we crate them next to each other when we leave for work. They also eat in their crates and have breaks in there when we need to separate them or leave the house for a little. On week days they are crated a few hours in the morning and then our dad comes to be with them/let them use the bathroom. From what I can tell, they mostly sleep when our dad is with them. By the time we get home they’ve been together for a few hours.My sister and I will switch off playing with them individually in the backyard and walk them if it’s cool enough outside (where we live it’s triple digit weather most of the summer). Juniper sleeps in my room & Gus stays with my sister.

typing this out I realize they are together a lot when we are home.

most of the time when I’m home, they are not calm around each other. They might rest and nap for 10 or 30 minutes and then one will wake the other up…and the madness continues.

from what I’ve read in these forums I feel like we don’t have a strong pack structure. Im wondering what things we need to do with them daily to ensure they know we are in charge.

Actually I think letting them spend time together is a good thing they will get used to each other and as long as there is no real fighting I wouldn't be too concerned but when there is rough play going on and one is being the bully then you need to distract that with another idea like get the hose out and let them play with that or if in the house pick up a toy or two and just change the subject from the bullying. They will want to play but walking them together is good it helps them bond. You are doing great by not leaving them lose together when they are alone and keeping them to their own rooms at night that gives each dog its own space. My dogs get to playing rough sometimes but mostly not because we have a regular exercise schedule I keep to with plenty of outdoor activity so I keep their energy down. We are in summer now very hot so we are out before 6am to walk I let mine play in the hose a bit too in the yard. Inside I play with their toys with them and we have dog puzzles ( they haven't made one yet they can't figure out) I think this will work out it may be annoying for now but you haven't had them together that long so they probably need some time.

Yep the clip worked fine. And while the "Doggy Training, class," is fine. It's not really gonna address any of your "issues." Most "generic," dog training classes are geared towards, basic socialization, Sit/Stay and Come and how to walk well on a lose leash. And while that is all well and good ... it is not gonna help with your issue. And while I am not saying, it is not helpful (to attend the classes) it's not gonna solve your "issue's." Although the loose leash walking is very important!

So I'll start there. When you take both of them out on a walk, how do they do? Are they "both," walking calmly by your side? Or are they pulling and tugging and darting all about?

Indoors, do they both just chill the heck out or do they engage in more running around and horse play inside? And just so you know it is the girl, that set's the base line for what is going on here. They do need to learn "chill," in each other's presence. If they want to play that is fine. But you do need to be able to put a "clamp," on the "crazy," with a "Command (ie training.)"

And the "Walk," is how you need to teach (them/her) who is in "charge." So how do they do "indoors and on walk's?"

@chip18
LOL, yup, Juni is def a pain. Love her, but she is nuts! 😂

What kind of daily practices should I do with her to have this “breakthrough”’you speak of?

They are crazy inside and outside! Lately we have been separating them a lot inside because their play gets wild while indoors, which we don’t want.

I will try the crate command when they start getting too wild inside. Luckily the dogs do go into their crates on command. They are placed in the crate when they are alone during part of the day. They don’t sleep in them overnight but are fed there and are given breaks there as well.

originally the links for the collar were too small, like for a smaller breed. Now I feel they might be too loose. I’ll have to watch a tutorial.

Thank you for your help!!

Wait what? You use Crate's but they don't sleep in them? That is "Freaking Brilliant! I or most other's, I dare say, never thought of that? Most on here, want our dog's to sleep with us. And that is why most don't Crate there dog's. And that is why most don't crate there dog's? But there is no law that say's you can't do 50/50? And since you are, let's go with that for the screwing around indoors as a start!

Now this is easy for me to say but I think it can work, for the indoors horse play. You need to bring both Crate's into the area inside where you let them roam. And then let them do whatever? (Now it should be next to nothing, but I'll let that go.) But as soon as they ramp up into crazy town?

Pick one and drop the hammer! Command one of them into there Crate and let them stay in for an hour. While the other does whatever. Let them out and try again, repeat as necessary. Try and see who is "actually starting the Horseplay, and that should be your focus. Most likely it is the girl but I don't know?

And you may have help to step up up your Command? Your not asking them, you are "Telling Them!" Give that a shot for ... two week's and see what happens? Now I have not done anything like that myself, but it makes sense to me.

And the break thru, I speak off. You may just see it in that two weeks? What it look's like is no BS, no Crap. The dog just complies because you "Say So." But the dog, has to believe in you for that work. Hug's and Kisses aren't enough. No coxing no baby talk, no BS. You have already laid the foundation so that should work?

Now that is not addressing the indoor BS, directly? But avoiding direct conflict is kind of how I like to work. I got more but hey Baby Steps.

OK, next up the Walk. If one can not do anything else, if one can walk there dog on a loose leash without effort? Then they will be 95% of the way to having the dog they want and not the dog they have.

And I can stat that as a "Fact," thru lesson's learned from the school of hard knocks! My Struddell my White Boxer was superbly trained. As in off leash at distance ... I could call her off a "Bunny Chase," by shouting "NO!" And on leash a little old lady in a walker could walk her around the block, without issue, she was that good.

I kind of though all dog's were like that? But apparently they are not? My first Foster Fail, Working Line GSD, showed me that I was wrong? My Stru was a great dog ... but she is not why I am here? My Wl GSD in the beginning, Kicked My ASS! As in send you to the hospital for stiches', when you got in the way of him attacking your Band Dawg! And oh yeah ... I don't much care for people either!

Good Times, Good Times. In the long run, he proved to be a great dog! As in "Saved My A$$." Un bid when I slipped on ice while defending him, while under a two dog attack! That was freaking epic and left me stunned?

That's another story and I did more (Place and Sit On The Dog,) eventually ... by accident (ie this makes sense?) But our journey to recovery started by me "Walking Him," One on One. And Struddell, did not approve! But it had to be done!

And while I at the time, had no idea what I was doing? We spent month's walking one on one in silence at night. Rocky started to change? But not being a "Pro," I did not see changes in how he perceived me but they were there.

That is a long way of saying, that two dog's are more work than one. As long as you insist on walking both dog's together, you will impede your progress.

And while it took me literally year's to figure out all I had done to solve my "Rocky," issues apparently without issue? It was nothing new. I had started by "Walking my dog!" It was just that simple?

And while I am not a "Pro." Larry Khron is. And for him what I did is no surprise and this is his take.

And since I have been doing this awhile and I only recommend "Pro's," I trust. It seems that I tend to say/recommend the same thing's they do? Now I have still not got to the "Prong Collar Thing." But that is because (in my opinion) you have to walk dog's one on one with you for sometime before, you can make progress? I would doubt most people can focus there attention on one dog (with issues) if they are walking two? But hey I can't say, I have tried walking two dog at once if one has issues?

But that is because I say "why would you do that?" Now if there happens to be a "Pro Dog Walker," on here that can do that? I "promise," I won't give them grieve! But I doubt there is someone like that here? So I go with "twice," work and one at time.

[email protected] said:

Be careful looking at trainers I have seen over and over where these so called "trainers" can't seem to manage a Boxer I have heard of people saying their dogs were untrainable ect ect. SO not true!!! Its these "trainers" even the TV kind don't understand Boxers at all. There is a way to get thru to them and consistency is one of the best things you can do dogs love a routine. I think its wonderful you don't crate them all the time and you are doing a pretty good job so just keep at it things will work out I am sure of it!

Click to expand...

Yup I’ve tried it all, group training lessons to individual training lessons. My little girl Grace is a lot to handle. She has her good days but most of the times she likes to tug and pull because she’s just so full of energy. I have to take her on runs and let her loose to burn energy on the regular and after she may have a normal walk but if I take her in the mornings or after work she’s a fireball. I used the sprenger prong collar (I think that’s how you spell it) and it works somewhat but to be honest a shock collar is what works best. I don’t turn it up high at all I have it set to an intensity where it’s strong enough for her to feel it but doesn’t cause her harm. Unfortunately I did have a few times it may have been higher than I wanted it as I was looking for the perfect intensity but now she’s like a brand new dog. Persistence is key. With that collar it has a vibrate function you could use it on your dog whenever it does something wrong indoors if you’d like. This is my second boxer she’s pure bred classic flashy fawn and I’m telling you I’ve tried everything. I wish I didn’t need to use this collar at times but she’s so hard headed. She’s 3 years old and she’s finally now stopping her jumping on people. Every time people see her they want her to jump on them so of course that doesn’t help haha. Best of luck friends!

JP2020 said:

@chip18
LOL, yup, Juni is def a pain. Love her, but she is nuts! 😂

What kind of daily practices should I do with her to have this “breakthrough”’you speak of?

They are crazy inside and outside! Lately we have been separating them a lot inside because their play gets wild while indoors, which we don’t want.

I will try the crate command when they start getting too wild inside. Luckily the dogs do go into their crates on command. They are placed in the crate when they are alone during part of the day. They don’t sleep in them overnight but are fed there and are given breaks there as well.

originally the links for the collar were too small, like for a smaller breed. Now I feel they might be too loose. I’ll have to watch a tutorial.

Thank you for your help!!

Click to expand...

Well all the comments and observations about the girl's are fun. But I am gonna focus on the "issues," at hand. And the "walk" is one of them. Pro Dog Walkers, and most likely Pro's in general can Walk Several assorted Dog's at once ... without issues? I don't know how they do that but I am pretty sure that out of a "Pack," at least one of those dog's is there own, a four footed dogie helper if you will.

Now they might just "book," Random Assorted Dog's?" And walk them all as a "Pack?" But I don't think so? My best trained dog's were (apparently built on the one well trained before adding another principle.) First came Gunther (Band Dawg 25 % Bull mastiff, 50 % APBT and 25 % lab) then 3 year' later my first Boxer/Pit Stewie and he was a great pup , hat I lost to early ... but trying to figure out why he was like he was "exactly," led me to Boxer's?

And while I was right in the Breed (part) Boxer. I did not see the "Girl Part?" But it still worked out and that was Struddell (Avatar.) And while I was right on the Boxer that I saw in Stewie (Boxer/Pit.) I did not see the (Girl Part?) Stru was "seriously, pigged headed and stubborn," in he beginning but with Gunther help we got thru it.

And with Gunther's help I now had two good on leash dog's, although Struddell was better. As in anyone could walk her on leash! Gunther not so much? And then came Rocky (Working line German Shepard?) And crap got real! Not a Boxer ie Bully breed so he was not to keen on people? That a dog could be like that was news to me? But skipping a whole lot, he was my first off leash dog. Mostly because I could read him. I kinda knew what he was thinking and he understood me. I could never do with my Struddell? But I am not sure if that was really her or me? I had a lot of "tragedy," around Boxer and Boxer/Pits.

So I was just willing to trust Struddell off leash in an urban environment? Which made no sense? As our favorite activity was "Bunny Chasing," in the high desert and I could call her off a Chase by shouting No! And if I said "Stay!" She would freeze in motion! Three feet on the ground and one foot in Mid Air? I have never seen anything like that? She was "daddy's," baby girl.

But then I lost them, first Gunther in 2010, then my Stru in 2013 and finally Rocky in 2015. I should have gotten another Female White Boxer after Stru and Rocky could have helped me.
But I was stuck ... and when I lost Rocky in 2015?

We had no dog for three years? And my wife interceded with a (Female) Boxer/Pit? The (Female) part kinda ticked me off ... a (Boxer thing (two females not a good idea ... )

All my super star "Dogies," are gone? And it's just me and Bella? So I no longer have help from my other dog's? So sigh with my "Bella," I do have to say I can better relate to "JQP."

So that much said the "Walk." With Gunther/Stewie/ and Struddell, walking them was no big deal. They were not wild and out of control and walking them was no big deal? A Regular collar and a flat leash was all I needed. If you understand (less being more) then a Regular Collar and a Flat leash is all you need.

Rocky my GSD was a special case. He was also a "Special Need's Dog." He could be a curious combo of seriously furious and incredibly fragile. He was a "Wobble Dog," and you could not be putting any type of "Pressure on his spine! " It could have killed him! But sigh even after seven month's? He had a lack of trust in me?

Other crap had happened and I finally understood, that with my Foster Fail, I had a serious freaking issue? PacK Fights's (not Struddell and People Issues). I had no idea what to do so I just said "Screw it, I'll walk him ... alot! Now that did seriously tick Struddell off as she Luv'd Rocky! But it had to be done.

He had people issues and pack issues (which all cropped up at the 12 to 14 month after 7 months of no issues (that I saw?) But we walked one on one at night for month's and many miles?

And a side note just so you know ... most "Dog Attack's," occur close to home! That is another topic (that I have covered) but in our "Midnight's," sigh time and time again, I had to "Protect my dog!") Even thought you know he had sent me to the ER! I got in the way of one his rampages on Gunther!!

But nonetheless, he was my dog and no dog attacks my Dog without going threw me! And he learned to let "Daddy Deal," with this crap? And he would stay behind me while I did! In the beginning, I would tell him stay (if we got charged and I would step in front) after a while I no longer needed to say anything. If he heard "Bark, Bark,Snarl,Snarl" He knew the deal.

If your dog get's charged/attacked you just want to deal with the one dog and not two ... Dog's get that. And "usually," stamping your feet and or screaming go home!!! Deters most ... offenders? But apparently not all? Oh well the rest of the story is here. :

And I have strayed from my point as I always tend to do, My bad?

But my point is "Walking your dog is important." And you can't walk one reasonably behaved
dog and one that is a "PIA?" At the same time and expect to accomplish much? It really needs to be one on one as in twice the work? Or not much will change? Two dog's always walked together will be more interested in each other, then they will with you?

Ok while that was an "aside," as it were. My point, is that those were all my "hand picked prima donna puppy's." Aside from "Rocky," who was Seven Month's when I got him and after Five months or so turned and then he turned into a A-Hole, WTH?

But times change, dog's pass and life moves on. I lost Rock in 2015 and no dog for 3 years or so? And then came Bella, she was a One Year old rescue and my second Boxer/Pit. So I knew mostly what to expect, except she kind of doubled down on the "girl,' thing? I had to change the way I worked, in the past. And while it did work, Bella is not like my other dog's.

I am a Slip Lead Leash kind of guy and that is still what I use Day to Day. But with Bella I had to use a "Prong Collar," for fine tuning. She is still not as good on leash as I want on leash but we go for walk's in the City. I just use a Slip Lead Leash.

And using a SLL, is apparently an Art onto itself. But since the question was about the "Prong Collar," let's go there. And if you want to understand a "Prong Collar,' and if you want to DIY, Youtube is your friend. And for the Prong Collar, one of the great's would be "Tylor Muto."


Sean Oshea is another one.

In that clip he explains about using a D link or Carbineer, with the Prong Collar. The clip attaches to the dead link on the prong and goes to the link on the dog's collar. You need to have that on a dog because a Prong Collar can pop off? IE crap happens?

If you use those guy's Youtube channel's, you will find all you need to get it done. But because she has already negative associations with the "Prong Collar." It might make thing's a bit tougher for you? I alway's use a Slip Lead Leash with unknow dog's myself. They have to e fitted high and snug and yep the will slip and move out of position but I address that as needed. But long story short ... a SLL would work the same as the "Prong," for the most part.

It would go a lot like this.

Well I got more but I'll try and not ramble. And my Bella (PIA that she can be) went on a walk in the big city today on a SLL and she did just fine. I'd give her an A-, she's very good but not just anyone could walk her.