[Alicia]

So I took Lola over a friend of a friends house last night to play with her two pups.  She has 2 pit bull / lad mixes....both males.  Sweet dogs, one is a little over a year and the other is 13 years old.  They played great with Lola at first, got down on their bellies to be on her level and ran around and got her to chase them.  But then they started going up behind her and doing you know what.  It scared the crap out of me because they're not fixed!  They probably only did it for a few seconds before I got them off her, but it happened several times......so is she going to be okay?  She continued running around with them after and seemed fine.  Sorry I'm a nervous mom!  I don't know much about this stuff.  Just want to make sure she's not going to be tramatized or pregnant!  She didn't want to stop playing with them when I was trying to leave so I'm thinking she enjoyed herself....but do you think it's best to stay away until I have her spayed?  And speaking of that do you have to wait until she goes through her first heat to have a puppy spayed?  Sorry for all the questions!  Thanks  

 

[JessiesMom]

If she hasnt had a heat cycle then i dont think she can get pregnant... i could be wrong though...

 

[Mastray]

I think they say it's better to spay BEFORE their FIRST heat cycle. I thought there was more to it the that though... hubby and I watched a show just a couple of days ago called In The Womb: Animals. They had an elephant, a dolphin and a dog. Mind you Odin and Sarah we're misbehaving during some of it but I thought that with dogs it's not just "wham bam thank you maam".   I think they're suppose to stay "interlocked" for a while facing opposite directions. That's what I was learning on the show anyway... which I found fasinating because I didn't know that. Then again I don't and haven't bread dogs so I've not ever seen the whole thing.

This was one of the only things I could find on it... but I don't think it talks about what you're looking for...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QxI5L1tKhS0

I don't think your little girly will be pregnant though.

 

[Barbs2Ks]

I saw some of that program too; it was interesting.  They also said that the puppies could have different fathers.  Thought that could only happen with cats.

 

[OdinsDad]

How old is Lola?  Boxers reach sexual maturity usually between 7-10 months.

You can read this article to find out more on this subject.

 

[Newcastle]

Humping is not always sexual; quite often it's a play behavior, and it also is a dominance posturing behavior.  While 'outside ties' do occasionally happen without the dogs actually 'connecting', you do need to have a) a bitch in season and b) the penis extended from the sheath before even an outside tie can occur.

As far as spaying goes, doing the surgery before the first season will almost eliminate the odds of mammary tumors; however, more recent research has shown that spaying before maturity may increase the odds of several other types of cancers (osteosarcoma, splenic hemangiosarcoma, cardiac hemangiosarcoma), hypothyroidism, spay incontinence, urinary tract infections and tumors, ACL rupture, and various other health concerns.  So there is a risk-assessment to be done; personally, I don't think I'd spay or neuter before 14-18 months of age these days, if at all, but I'm also well able to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and to deal with a bitch the three to four weeks she's in season, which not everyone is.

 

[Newcastle]

They also said that the puppies could have different fathers.  Thought that could only happen with cats.

Oh, nope, dogs too.  In fact, the AKC recently allowed multiple-sired litters (with heavy fees associated!) for those cases where a breeder might have only one chance with the bitch, but two dogs she'd like to use on her.  I've known a couple breeders who have done this, but for most it's just too expensive (it's something like a $250 flat fee, plus $40 each for DNA testing of the bitch, all possible sires, and all the puppies).

 

[jeanathanh2o]

Interesting!  Learn something new everyday!!!

 

[Alicia]

Thank you all for making me feel better.

 

[Alicia]

[quote="Mastray\";p=\"10883":2uu1gite]I think they say it's better to spay BEFORE their FIRST heat cycle. I thought there was more to it the that though... hubby and I watched a show just a couple of days ago called In The Womb: Animals. They had an elephant, a dolphin and a dog. Mind you Odin and Sarah we're misbehaving during some of it but I thought that with dogs it's not just "wham bam thank you maam".

 

[Flutterby]

I've heard the different father thing before too! When I was going to buy a second yorkie, there was a breeder who said the puppies may have different fathers. They were both health tested and everything so I didn't care about papers.. Then she dropped the price tag on me.. ($1300) ..  8O  Lets just say I didn't buy a yorkie...

 

[Mastray]

Yeah I've heard about the different father thing TOO!

We had a chihuahua and terrier that weren't spayed when I was younger. We never had any problems with them... they never acted any different... well a little... but nothing like a cat in heat!!!! The only problem was the spotting which wasn't really a problem when you figured out how to handle it.

 

[Flutterby]

I don't think bleeding is all that bad (unless it gets on you!!  8O ).. I also heard that the uterus deteriorates every heat (whether you breed or not) unlike human woman. I was going to get Mia fixed, but Newcastle, if you think its better to wait, I'd rather do that. But all of our boys here are fixed so it wouldn't be a problem not having her spayed for a bit. Sid (my bfs pitbull) knows what a heat is .. He was around a female in heat - it was a chihuahua - before he got snipped, so he does get hyped up.. But poor Toby was snipped at 4 months and doesnt understand the hype about it at all! Poor thing! lol

Now, if you're diligent about not letting accidental pregnancies happen, is it better to not get them spayed at all?

 

[Newcastle]

Again, it's a risk assessment; leaving a bitch intact will increase the risk of mammary tumors, and carries the risk of pyometra.  Many breeders spay their bitches after they're retired from whelping - but many holistic/natural rearing owners don't spay/neuter at all.  The uterus does go through physical changes every season, whether the bitch is bred or not, so the older a bitch gets, the more seasons she goes through, the higher the chance of pyometra.  (In most cases, spaying is the treatment of choice for pyo in a non-breeding bitch, but since it is an infection in can become quite serious.)  I  definitely think you'd need to look at the incidence of various conditions like cancers and pyo, in the breed and in that particular family, and then see which seems like the riskier course of action.  (If none of the related dogs have had pyo or mammary tumors, but a number of them have had hemangiosarcoma, it might be worth holding off on the spay; if pyo or mammary tumors are common, and the other conditions not so much so, you may want to have the spay done before the first season.)

 

[jeanathanh2o]

So how do you make a risk assesment on a puppy that you don't know the background of?  

We got Ginsy from a friend who got two puppies from a byb and then decided they couldn't handle two puppies at the same time because their daughter had just undergone major leg extension surgery and they have a 6 month old baby too.

So I don't know Ginsy's origin or even who the breeder was.

 

[Newcastle]

Then I think you just have to go with whatever you feel is best.  To be fair, thousands (if not millions) of dogs over the years have been spayed and neutered before maturity without developing these associated problems - it is an increased risk, not a sure thing.  If you are thinking about doing Agility, I would definitely hold off because of the increased risk of ACL tears.  I'm still more comfortable with six months as the earliest age, but I realize there's really no basis for that other than custom.  Boxers in general are slow to mature, with the average age for a first season being more like 9-12 months rather than 6-9; the youngest I've ever had come in the first time was 14 months, the oldest was 21 months.