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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am looking for a female Boxer puppy next spring/summerish. I have spent many hours researching only to encounter mostly frustration. My main requirements are:


thoroughly health tested relatives, with excellent results and longevity
natural tails and dewclaws
some kind of working/performance titles on relatives
parents no older than 6 years
puppies well-socialized from start
no inbreeding/linebreeding
plenty of updates on puppies as they are born and growing
no spay/neuter requirement (I will never breed but don't do surgeries that aren't medically necessary)



Preferences:


raw diet
limited/no vaccinations or medications


Price and location, as long as it's in the U.S., are pretty much irrelevant to me.



So far the only ones who have come close are these:


https://europeanandsealedbrindleboxers.webs.com/
Show and Pet Quality AKC European Boxer Puppies
https://www.chicagolandboxers.com/


I've contacted and been approved by all of them, first two seem great except they don't apparently do any type of competition with their dogs and both seem to be extremely busy, too busy even to give enough info about their dogs, no responses to some emails, which makes me concerned about how much attention the puppies and dogs are getting. The third one also doesn't respond to emails, he does answer the phone during the day but won't give me the pedigrees, health testing or competition information on his dogs. Is this really asking for too much? The only reason I'm even considering the third one is because he does working competition with his dogs, but if he won't tell me what the results of that were, or the pedigrees or health testing info, that's not a plus. Does anyone have any other suggestions? At this point I'm thinking Havenwoods is probably my best option. Northwoods seems about the same, those two have related dogs, but Northwoods is even less responsive to emails and won't tell me the price of their puppies.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I've made my decision, am now on the waiting list for a brindle female puppy out of "Resistance."


https://europeanandsealedbrindleboxers.webs.com/havenwoodsresistance.htm


Hopefully she'll have puppies next spring/summer not long after my current girl with kidney disease is gone. The only thing this breeder doesn't do that I'd like is some kind of performance competition, but she does feed a raw diet and though she normally vaccinates for several things, she agreed to only vaccinate my puppy for parvo and distemper one time before I pick her up, and Resistance does have lots of successful working relatives, as does the sire, so I think that more than makes up for it. :)
 

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Hi there,
I find the website pretty much overloaded – but here is some input. Maybe what I looked for is there but couldn’t find it on the site, I might be just too lazy to look.
First of all she looks good.
To hand over puppies at eight weeks is a little too early for me, I prefer 10. I did not see the medicals of her parents , I don’t see what she weighs or how tall she is. Showing the pedigree, ancestral charts of her parents etc. is a confidence builder for the buyer, did you find them? – would also allow you to understand more on the health issues. Will you get copies of the ancestral charts incl. Health reports when you pick up the pup. Will this be her first litter?

What’s I don’t like are the hip results C1 – its not a deal breaker, but you need to find out who the future father of your pup is going to be and find out what his hips are. With her being C he must be an A, not B or C. If the breeder wont or cant tell you, I personally would not reserve a pup from a mother with C without the medicals from the father of your future pup, 2000 dollars for a C hip is a lot of cash. Her Spondylosis result is good

On the positive side is that they seem to travel, also to the ATI Box, they had the hips and spondylosis results confirmed via the Boxer Club in Munich (ask the breeder who did the X-Rays, the answer would interest me.

Good luck
 

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If it's me... I keep looking. The C1 hips are a concern.
And I don't really see any real "working". The breeder doesn't seem to do any sport/comp. with them.
If that is what your looking for in your next pup, make sure you pick a breeder that does some type of sport/comp themselves.
Good luck!
 

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You mentioned the third one, chicagolandboxers, didn't tell you the results of their working competitions. If you go further into their website you can find it.


https://www.chicagolandboxers.com/awards.html


I wouldn't have any issues buying a dog from this breeder. Don't know about the others. I'd want to see what their purchase agreement looks like. I would think there would be restrictions on breeding puppies. More dogs are getting their ZTP tests done which is a breeding suitability test. Boxer dogs shouldn't have to suffer from health conditions that are painful, and shorten their short lives.
 

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You mentioned the third one, chicagolandboxers, didn't tell you the results of their working competitions. If you go further into their website you can find it.


https://www.chicagolandboxers.com/awards.html


I wouldn't have any issues buying a dog from this breeder. Don't know about the others. I'd want to see what their purchase agreement looks like. I would think there would be restrictions on breeding puppies. More dogs are getting their ZTP tests done which is a breeding suitability test. Boxer dogs shouldn't have to suffer from health conditions that are painful, and shorten their short lives.
The ZTP per say does not test the dogs health – it tests the character, endurance and body build, head, ears, fangs and if the body size ( and the rest) is within the standards. The HD test is a perquisite, a low score will lead to failing the ZTP – maybe you meant the same
 

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I see that the person posting this does not want to have a spay/neuter contract so I'm not sure if this would be possible with the breeder I commented on.


I think a dog has to be 18 months to do the ZTP, and have passed the BH. Since there is some bite work involved with the ZTP, I don't know if they have to also have some IPO training. I get off topic. Not sure if they require a DNA test too.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Hi there,
I find the website pretty much overloaded – but here is some input. Maybe what I looked for is there but couldn’t find it on the site, I might be just too lazy to look.
First of all she looks good.
To hand over puppies at eight weeks is a little too early for me, I prefer 10. I did not see the medicals of her parents , I don’t see what she weighs or how tall she is. Showing the pedigree, ancestral charts of her parents etc. is a confidence builder for the buyer, did you find them? – would also allow you to understand more on the health issues. Will you get copies of the ancestral charts incl. Health reports when you pick up the pup. Will this be her first litter?

What’s I don’t like are the hip results C1 – its not a deal breaker, but you need to find out who the future father of your pup is going to be and find out what his hips are. With her being C he must be an A, not B or C. If the breeder wont or cant tell you, I personally would not reserve a pup from a mother with C without the medicals from the father of your future pup, 2000 dollars for a C hip is a lot of cash. Her Spondylosis result is good

On the positive side is that they seem to travel, also to the ATI Box, they had the hips and spondylosis results confirmed via the Boxer Club in Munich (ask the breeder who did the X-Rays, the answer would interest me.

Good luck

Here is the dam's pedigree:


HavenWoods Resistance


The sire will be one of two dogs, this one:


Aramis vom Drachenstich


or this one:


Danabol d'Jandilla


Danabol has A hips, don't know why it's not shown in that pedigree database, maybe just not updated yet, and he also has multiple V conformation ratings in shows. Resistance has had a previous litter by Aramis and I suspect Danabol will be her next mating, but either would be fine with me. I don't love the C hips either, but think mating her to A or B would be acceptable. Breeder does have copies of all health test results and I've seen them.


Thanks! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If it's me... I keep looking. The C1 hips are a concern.
And I don't really see any real "working". The breeder doesn't seem to do any sport/comp. with them.
If that is what your looking for in your next pup, make sure you pick a breeder that does some type of sport/comp themselves.
Good luck!

Keep looking where? I've been all over the internet and have not found any better than this one for what I'm wanting. If you have a suggestion I'm all ears, and eyes. ;)


Yes, the lack of working titles on the parents isn't my preference, but many other relatives of these dogs do have strong working titles, and I can't find a breeder who meets every one of my requirements. That's the only one this breeder lacks. Most of them lack a bunch of them.



Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You mentioned the third one, chicagolandboxers, didn't tell you the results of their working competitions. If you go further into their website you can find it.


https://www.chicagolandboxers.com/awards.html


I wouldn't have any issues buying a dog from this breeder. Don't know about the others. I'd want to see what their purchase agreement looks like. I would think there would be restrictions on breeding puppies. More dogs are getting their ZTP tests done which is a breeding suitability test. Boxer dogs shouldn't have to suffer from health conditions that are painful, and shorten their short lives.

Do you know this breeder? I've spoken with him and there is absolutely no way I would buy a puppy from him without a LOT more information. He told me his next planned breeding is Black Jaxx x Lourdes, neither of whom he can/will provide a pedigree or health testing results for, and he openly states on his website that he does not even test for DM just because he hasn't had a dog with it. That awards page is WAY out of date. Neither Black Jaxx nor Lourdes is mentioned on it, I asked him what titles/performance records they have and he would not give me that information either. The only advantage I see with him is that he does work with at least some of his dogs, but without knowing how they did, or so much else about them, just no way. He does sell puppies only on limited registration which is fine with me, and does not require spaying or neutering.


Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sorry for the delay in responding, and to anything in other threads directed at me I may have missed but I cannot figure out how to get emails when new responses are added to threads for some reason, just saw all these helpful responses today. Thanks again, everyone! :)
 

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A kennel that works their dogs is a nice to have but is not not a knock out criteria for me when it comes to finding a good breeder. I bought Ben from a kennel that has been breeding boxers for 30 years, the breeder is near 70 years old, he does not work the dog anymore. Males tend to be worked more than females, females go through pregnancy and the time after birth so they have less time to work. It’s the experience that counts, knowing how to select the right male to breed and a male that matches the female.
Health testing is a must and that the breeder will answer any and all questions and that he or she will readily provide all health documents including family trees – if he or she will not or cannot then I won’t buy there.
A female boxer with HD “C” is not necessarily and issue with me as long as the breeder is looking for a male with an with HD “A”. This is telling me that the breeder is doing something about the HD issue. If the breeder is not concerned that the male is also a “C” I would not buy there.
Health testing and results are a must have, yet there is no guarantee that the pups will be free of any future health issues, testing and matching the males to the females will however at least minimize the risk.
Finally, I also need to like the looks of the parents.
 

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I've met the breeder at one of the US Boxer Association events. I also have a female from one of his bitches. Here's a link from his website.


https://www.chicagolandboxers.com/awards.html


I would guess that his dogs have higher drives because they are from working lines. Food drive, and prey drive are higher because they are important in training for Schutzhund, and French Ring. If this is your first Boxer, and you want to work your new dog, you should live nearby to a club that does this. They are not easy to find. Maybe you're in the Chicago area.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
A kennel that works their dogs is a nice to have but is not not a knock out criteria for me when it comes to finding a good breeder. I bought Ben from a kennel that has been breeding boxers for 30 years, the breeder is near 70 years old, he does not work the dog anymore. Males tend to be worked more than females, females go through pregnancy and the time after birth so they have less time to work. It’s the experience that counts, knowing how to select the right male to breed and a male that matches the female.
Health testing is a must and that the breeder will answer any and all questions and that he or she will readily provide all health documents including family trees – if he or she will not or cannot then I won’t buy there.
A female boxer with HD “C” is not necessarily and issue with me as long as the breeder is looking for a male with an with HD “A”. This is telling me that the breeder is doing something about the HD issue. If the breeder is not concerned that the male is also a “C” I would not buy there.
Health testing and results are a must have, yet there is no guarantee that the pups will be free of any future health issues, testing and matching the males to the females will however at least minimize the risk.
Finally, I also need to like the looks of the parents.

I agree with all of this, except that I might be willing to buy a puppy from a mother with C hips and father with B, if almost everything else were perfect. That would be the case if Resistance is bred to Aramis, and I really do like Aramis. Puppies from their last litter look very nice. Then if she's bred to Janabol, he has A hips. But he's fawn, so half or more of the puppies might be too, and I definitely want a brindle female. More brindles are likely with Aramis.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I've met the breeder at one of the US Boxer Association events. I also have a female from one of his bitches. Here's a link from his website.


https://www.chicagolandboxers.com/awards.html


I would guess that his dogs have higher drives because they are from working lines. Food drive, and prey drive are higher because they are important in training for Schutzhund, and French Ring. If this is your first Boxer, and you want to work your new dog, you should live nearby to a club that does this. They are not easy to find. Maybe you're in the Chicago area.

Yes, as I wrote, I've already seen that page, and it's nice that he's done so much with his past dogs, but the two he told me he's breeding next, Black Jaxx and Lourdes, are not mentioned on that page at all, and he will not give me their pedigrees (they're not in any database I've seen) or their health test results or tell me anything about what they've done in competition, plus he does not test any of his dogs for DM. That's just too many negatives. I have no idea what reason a breeder could possibly have for refusing to provide this basic information.


This will by my 5th Boxer, and while I am not interested in Schutzhund, I would like to compete in AKC rally, obedience, agility, etc. and think dogs from working lines are more likely to be better at these activities, as well as more athletic, which is also important to me as I walk/run/hike several miles almost daily with my dogs and lead a very active lifestyle in general, taking my dogs with me almost everywhere.
 

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Keep looking where? I've been all over the internet and have not found any better than this one for what I'm wanting. If you have a suggestion I'm all ears, and eyes. ;)


Yes, the lack of working titles on the parents isn't my preference, but many other relatives of these dogs do have strong working titles, and I can't find a breeder who meets every one of my requirements. That's the only one this breeder lacks. Most of them lack a bunch of them.



Thank you!
If you are wanting to sport/comp your new pup, IHMO get a pup from working parents and a breeder the works them or look for a older pup so you kind of know what you're getting..
Working Boxers aren't that easy to find.. no reason to take a chance on a none working parents/breeders.. if thats what you're looking.
If it's not then it doesn't really matter.

As to "where" I would invest $50 and become a member of US Boxer Assoc. There are a decent amount of working breeder there. I'm sure if you asked there you would get a few more names.

If you don't mind importing, Z ringu has produced some really nice dogs.
 

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If you are wanting to sport/comp your new pup, IHMO get a pup from working parents and a breeder the works them or look for a older pup so you kind of know what you're getting..
Working Boxers aren't that easy to find.. no reason to take a chance on a none working parents/breeders.. if thats what you're looking.
If it's not then it doesn't really matter.

As to "where" I would invest $50 and become a member of US Boxer Assoc. There are a decent amount of working breeder there. I'm sure if you asked there you would get a few more names.

If you don't mind importing, Z ringu has produced some really nice dogs.
What is the difference between a puppy from a working dog line and and one that is not?
 

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Working the dog doesn’t drive the genetics, the boxer is genetically already a working dog. A non “working line” puppy can be trained to work
 
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