.who are filling the shelters and rescues
Well, put it this way: Until recently, the ConKC would register a dog as purebred as long as two other people signed the registration form "verifying" the breed (and you sent a check, or course!). They do now require photos of the dog along with the signatures - but, of course, there's no way for them to know whether the photos are of the actual dog being registered.She gave me registrations for both the AKC and ConKC. If the ConKC is a "bad" place to register him (and get degraded for doing it) then I won't.
Sure it does. The Florida puppy lemon law gives the buyer a one-year period of remedy for congenital disorders; however, most of the conditions to which Boxers are prone are not detected until two years of age or later (and the same holds true for many other breeds). Puppies do need to be seen by a vet before sale, which is a good thing, but there are no provisions for any of the other standard things done by responsible breeders - screening for genetic conditions; objective evaluation of structure and temperament; health warranties that have actual meaning; thorough screening of puppy buyers; spay/neuter or non-breeding contracts for pet puppies; first right of reclamation; lifetime 'take-back' guarantees.If she is considered a BYB she is a damn good one and FL doesn't really allow you to be a bad one.
Because it perpetuates the cycle. The only way to stop irresponsible breeding is to stop irresponsible buying.If you know you'd be a good home for the puppy then why not?
Why would you give your money to someone that would allow their puppies to go to a situation you find untenable? How can you justify encouraging them to breed litter after litter of puppies that may end up in those situations?Why chance that puppy going home with someone else who would keep it in its crate from 18 hrs out of the day!??
True; and until people decide that a puppy is worth at least as much consideration as a vacuum cleaner, there will always be irresponsible breeders. That does not, however, mean that those who care about the future of our breed(s) should just ignore the situation - every person who decides not to buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder is a step in the right direction!I think the best thing to do is for there to be no such thing as BYB's but unfortunately ANYONE can adopt or purchase a pet...
Responsible breeders utilize contracts which require the dog to be spayed/neutered at the appropriate age, and/or impose stiff monetary penalties for any puppies sired or whelped in violation of a s/n/non-breeding contract.I think what would be best is if they were KIND OF like ferrets in the US... needing to be neutered or spayed before given a home
Of course there are. (Actually, I'm not sure whether you mean there aren't enough homes, or their aren't enough puppies, but either way, there are. If there weren't enough homes, we would quickly be rid of the problem of irresponsible breeders - if no one buys their puppies, they won't be in a hurry to have another litter. If there weren't enough puppies, people wouldn't be turning in their "uncontrollable" (read: untrained) adolescent dogs to shelters so that they can "start over" with a new puppy.)But they ALL need loving homes... and there just aren't enough.
Right - where they would be quickly adopted (puppies do not stay in shelters or rescues for long!) and loved, but no money would line the pockets of the greedy or the clueless, and the cycle would be slowed and, with repeated results, stopped.Not purchasing them would definitely put them "out on the street" (in shelters and rescues).
The "pet lemon law" is a very good law. It helped me get my money back for Buster, who unfortunately was bought from a pet store, before I knew any better. I loved that boy to death, but I won't ever again buy a rubber bone from a pet store, let alone another animal. So, so, so many health issues...Mastray\";p=\"6818 said:
You're right that was just a comment from me getting over defensive. I agree most with Caillou... I mean I understand where you guys are coming from... but it's just impossible.I really don't understand your statement that FL doesn't really allow you to be a bad breeder.
I do understand your point, but I guarantee you that if people weren't buying irresponsibly-bred puppies, there would very soon not be very many!BYB are always, always going to be bringing puppies into this world because it's just an inconceivable thing to regulate.
I don't think anyone is a bad owner based on where they got their dog; they have just made a bad decision, or an uninformed one. It happens all the time - most of the people who campaign hardest about purchasing from responsible breeders are those who didn't do so their first time, and learned the hard way why it's important. I don't criticize anyone for making a mistake - though I'll admit I have little patience for people who have taken time to gather all the information, learn and understand why they shouldn't buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder, and do so anyway.And a lot of people who really want a boxer (or other) just can't afford the cost of a pedigree specimen - it doesn't automatically make them bad owners.
Yes, exactly.The only way we are going to stop these irresponsible breeders is to stop buying from them.
We have a different type of problem over here - so called "Breeders" who have a variety of pedigree puppies in kennels that have been imported from Eastern countries like Romania, Hungary, Poland or God knows where. You get your pedigree dog and if you're unlucky you get a bunch of behavioural & physical problems attached. Now they really should be closed down for business.I don't criticize anyone for making a mistake - though I'll admit I have little patience for people who have taken time to gather all the information, learn and understand why they shouldn't buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder, and do so anyway.
That's me in a nutshell!!Newcastle\";p=\"6872 said:most of the people who campaign hardest about purchasing from responsible breeders are those who didn't do so their first time, and learned the hard way.
I spent $1200.00 on Buster from a petstore.. :xNewcastle\";p=\"6872 said:As far as not being able to afford a "pedigree specimen" - that's just an excuse.
I do understand your point, but I guarantee you that if people weren't buying irresponsibly-bred puppies, there would very soon not be very many!Newcastle\";p=\"6872 said:BYB are always, always going to be bringing puppies into this world because it's just an inconceivable thing to regulate.
i would have to agree that they are basically the same level...tootsie\";p=\"6934 said:In my opinion BYB's and pet shops are on the same level. In many pet shops they are aquiring pets to sell from BYB's.
Here is a good BYB vs. Reputable Breeder chart.
Here is a video about puppy mills. it's kind of lenghthy but I think it gets the message across.
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp ... &Player=wm
If you want a less expensive option than a responsible breeder ("pro" is often used, but implies profit which is most certainly not the case!), consider a rescue. It may not be quicker - although many times it is - but you'll be doing a good deed, and if you can't afford a responsibly-bred puppy you may not be able to afford the first year's expenses either; with a rescue, the initial vet care is included in the adoption fee (heartworm test, vaccinations, stool check, spay/neuter, etc.), and you generally get to bypass the frustrating puppy challenges like teething, housetraining, crate training. There are usually questions about the dog's background and genetic health - but you get those with an irresponsibly bred puppy as well. (Most of the time, as well, rescues are less expensive even than irresponsibly-bred puppies.)Maybe you should give people out there a few pointers because they are often going to go for a quicker or cheaper option than the pro breeder anyway...
Well, I really can't advise on "how to buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder" - I just don't think it's an acceptable thing to do. I can, however, advise on how to discern whether the breeder you're considering is responsible or not. I have a very comprehensive list of questions to ask breeders, with some sample answers and discussion of why those may or may not be "good" ones, on my website at: www.newcastleboxers.com/breederquestions.shtmlIt would be good to maybe start a forum topic with a few rules on what to look for if you are buying a boxer...I know a breeder is the best choice but a bit of advice on do's & don'ts might be very useful if they're going to buy them elsewhere anyway