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My mom wants to get a Boxer puppy, so we're looking for some boxer breeders...
any near pensacola or milton or Mobile, AL...???
 

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the best place to look is the akc website for reputable breeders. I am in Texas so i cant help with a specific person. i know some people here are from the areas you are looking at. they may be able to help.


www.akc.org
 

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*Please* don't buy a puppy from a backyard breeder.  Even if you happen to be one of the lucky ones that ends up not having to deal with serious health issues, you are lining the pockets of the people who are filling the shelters and rescues.  If you don't care about health and temperament history, rescue a Boxer - www.americanboxerrescue.org - if you want the best odds for a healthy, long-lived puppy that looks and acts like a Boxer should, find a responsible breeder.  Any breeder that registers with the Continental Kennel Club (sometimes called CKC, but not to be confused with the legitimate CKC, the Canadian Kennel Club) is an irresponsible breeder.  While the AKC website does list some breeders, most of the ones advertising are not doing the necessary health screening - www.americanboxerclub.org/health-screening.html  There is a list of questions to ask breeders here, which should help you determine whether you're talking with someone who truly cares about the breed, or is breeding purely for selfish reasons: www.newcastleboxers.com/breederquestions.shtml
 

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I was almost worried Odin's breeder wouldn't pick us. She asked us all kinds of questions and gave SO much information and wanted to make sure... we weren't going to be bad owners. I LOVED IT! She actually cared! I mean I'd done LOTS of reading and research before we got Odin so I knew what we were getting into... I'd just never ran into that before.

In the state of FL they have a "Pet Lemon Law"
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/lemon_fl.html

It is one of the most far-reaching pet buyer protection laws in the nation.
She gave me registrations for both the AKC and ConKC. If the ConKC is a "bad" place to register him (and get degraded for doing it) then I won't. I'm not really sure if my breeder is considered a BYB... she USE to breed years ago... but had since "retired" and only did this last litter for her daughter to get a good, healthy boxer. If she is considered a BYB she is a damn good one and FL doesn't really allow you to be a bad one. She took the puppies to the vet at age 3 days, 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks and 8 weeks. She's definitely not one of the people
who are filling the shelters and rescues
.

Like I suggested maybe my definition of a BYB is different or wrong because of MY BYB... if that's what she is. I feel like buying from a BYB isn't a horrible thing. The puppy needs a good home. If you know you'd be a good home for the puppy then why not? Why chance that puppy going home with someone else who would keep it in its crate from 18 hrs out of the day!?? All puppies need love whether from a BYB, shelter, or reputable breeder.

I think the best thing to do is for there to be no such thing as BYB's but unfortunately ANYONE can adopt or purchase a pet... and be reckless about taking care of it. I think what would be best is if they were KIND OF like ferrets in the US... needing to be neutered or spayed before given a home... but then they'ed be 6 months by then and... it's just a mess that can't be solved. But they ALL need loving homes... and there just aren't enough. Maybe I should have referred to my breeder as a private breeder? But in any case... I think I'm just touchy because... all animals need homes... and BYB's will always be around. Not purchasing them would definitely put them "out on the street" (in shelters and rescues).
 

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She gave me registrations for both the AKC and ConKC. If the ConKC is a "bad" place to register him (and get degraded for doing it) then I won't.
Well, put it this way:  Until recently, the ConKC would register a dog as purebred as long as two other people signed the registration form "verifying" the breed (and you sent a check, or course!).  They do now require photos of the dog along with the signatures - but, of course, there's no way for them to know whether the photos are of the actual dog being registered.  

If she is considered a BYB she is a damn good one and FL doesn't really allow you to be a bad one.
Sure it does.  The Florida puppy lemon law gives the buyer a one-year period of remedy for congenital disorders; however, most of the conditions to which Boxers are prone are not detected until two years of age or later (and the same holds true for many other breeds).  Puppies do need to be seen by a vet before sale, which is a good thing, but there are no provisions for any of the other standard things done by responsible breeders - screening for genetic conditions; objective evaluation of structure and temperament; health warranties that have actual meaning; thorough screening of puppy buyers; spay/neuter or non-breeding contracts for pet puppies; first right of reclamation; lifetime 'take-back' guarantees.

If you know you'd be a good home for the puppy then why not?
Because it perpetuates the cycle.  The only way to stop irresponsible breeding is to stop irresponsible buying.

Why chance that puppy going home with someone else who would keep it in its crate from 18 hrs out of the day!??
Why would you give your money to someone that would allow their puppies to go to a situation you find untenable?  How can you justify encouraging them to breed litter after litter of puppies that may end up in those situations?

I think the best thing to do is for there to be no such thing as BYB's but unfortunately ANYONE can adopt or purchase a pet...
True; and until people decide that a puppy is worth at least as much consideration as a vacuum cleaner, there will always be irresponsible breeders.  That does not, however, mean that those who care about the future of our breed(s) should just ignore the situation - every person who decides not to buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder is a step in the right direction!

I think what would be best is if they were KIND OF like ferrets in the US... needing to be neutered or spayed before given a home
Responsible breeders utilize contracts which require the dog to be spayed/neutered at the appropriate age, and/or impose stiff monetary penalties for any puppies sired or whelped in violation of a s/n/non-breeding contract.  

But they ALL need loving homes... and there just aren't enough.
Of course there are.  (Actually, I'm not sure whether you mean there aren't enough homes, or their aren't enough puppies, but either way, there are.  If there weren't enough homes, we would quickly be rid of the problem of irresponsible breeders - if no one buys their puppies, they won't be in a hurry to have another litter.  If there weren't enough puppies, people wouldn't be turning in their "uncontrollable" (read: untrained) adolescent dogs to shelters so that they can "start over" with a new puppy.)  

Not purchasing them would definitely put them "out on the street" (in shelters and rescues).
Right - where they would be quickly adopted (puppies do not stay in shelters or rescues for long!) and loved, but no money would line the pockets of the greedy or the clueless, and the cycle would be slowed and, with repeated results, stopped.
 

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Yep  :D ! -but we're not living in some kind of Utopia! Where do we draw the line - it can't become a Hitler's Germany for cross-breeds or non-pure breeds out there 8O ! BYB are always, always going to be bringing puppies into this world because it's just an inconceivable thing to regulate. And a lot of people who really want a boxer (or other) just can't afford the cost of a pedigree specimen - it doesn't automatically make them bad owners.
I think there are way too many very bad dog owners out there and much of these problems stem from them - i'd be more for starting a "test the owners" law rather than a "pedigree only" law. Who cares if there are some non-pedigree boxers out there as long as there are still the pedigrees to keep the standard going?
It's not going to change so you can do your bit to produce good standard boxers and accept that "real" boxers will be in the minority. And on this site there are an awful lot of beautiful BYB dogs with fantastic loving owners. Hell, if we said only super models can have children :D
 

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P.S. Voltaire has an excellent pedigree and he's no better looking than some of the BYB dogs on this site :D
 

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Mastray\";p=\"6818 said:
In the state of FL they have a "Pet Lemon Law"
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/lemon_fl.html
If she is considered a BYB she is a damn good one and FL doesn't really allow you to be a bad one.
The "pet lemon law" is a very good law. It helped me get my money back for Buster, who unfortunately was bought from a pet store, before I knew any better. I loved that boy to death, but I won't ever again buy a rubber bone from a pet store, let alone another animal. So, so, so many health issues... :cry:

I really don't understand your statement that FL doesn't really allow you to be a bad breeder.
Florida is loaded with irresponsible BYB's. While searching for my next boxer, you would be surprised at some of the deplorable conditions I've come across. I've really only come across two breeders in the state that I would actually even consider. After searching, I became so disgusted that I went through FL Boxer rescue and rescued Maddie. Who knows where she came from....pet store, BYB, or reputable breeder. I don't know, all I knew was that there were so many in rescue already, and I wasn't about to line the pockets of another BYB or pet store.
The only way we are going to stop these irresponsible breeders is to stop buying from them.
 

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I really don't understand your statement that FL doesn't really allow you to be a bad breeder.
You're right that was just a comment from me getting over defensive. I agree most with Caillou... I mean I understand where you guys are coming from... but it's just impossible.
 

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BYB are always, always going to be bringing puppies into this world because it's just an inconceivable thing to regulate.
I do understand your point, but I guarantee you that if people weren't buying irresponsibly-bred puppies, there would very soon not be very many!

And a lot of people who really want a boxer (or other) just can't afford the cost of a pedigree specimen - it doesn't automatically make them bad owners.
I don't think anyone is a bad owner based on where they got their dog; they have just made a bad decision, or an uninformed one.  It happens all the time - most of the people who campaign hardest about purchasing from responsible breeders are those who didn't do so their first time, and learned the hard way why it's important.  I don't criticize anyone for making a mistake - though I'll admit I have little patience for people who have taken time to gather all the information, learn and understand why they shouldn't buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder, and do so anyway.

As far as not being able to afford a "pedigree specimen" - that's just an excuse.  If they can afford to buy an irresponsibly-bred puppy and feed it for a few months, they can afford to wait a few months and save their money and buy a responsibly-bred puppy.  (And if they can afford a puppy from the pet store, they can certainly afford a responsibly-bred one; pet store puppies generally cost half again as much as a responsibly-bred puppy, and sometimes double - or quadruple, for whites!)  People just don't want to wait; we live in a society of instant gratification, and the thought of saving money to purchase a puppy when they can get one down the street today is anathema to most.  Often, of course, in the long run by waiting they could have purchased the responsibly-bred puppy multiple times over, with the sometimes extremely expensive medical care that is necessary for many irresponsibly-bred puppies.  

The only way we are going to stop these irresponsible breeders is to stop buying from them.
Yes, exactly. :)
 

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Hi Newcastle, i actually agree with what you're saying- can you believe it :wink:
I don't criticize anyone for making a mistake - though I'll admit I have little patience for people who have taken time to gather all the information, learn and understand why they shouldn't buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder, and do so anyway.
We have a different type of problem over here - so called "Breeders" who have a variety of pedigree puppies in kennels that have been imported from Eastern countries like Romania, Hungary, Poland or God knows where. You get your pedigree dog and if you're unlucky you get a bunch of behavioural & physical problems attached. Now they really should be closed down for business.
I think it's in Germany (someone correct me if i'm wrong) that there's a law which says any dog - whatever the breed- has to be registered. You have to keep his identity papers on you at all times.
Tatooing or micro-chipping your dog should be compulsory in my opinion. It would get people to think twice before abandoning their animal if they knew they could be traced back and fined or more. It wouldn't solve the problem but it might teach a few responsibility :x !!
 

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Newcastle\";p=\"6872 said:
most of the people who campaign hardest about purchasing from responsible breeders are those who didn't do so their first time, and learned the hard way.
That's me in a nutshell!!

Newcastle\";p=\"6872 said:
As far as not being able to afford a "pedigree specimen" - that's just an excuse.
I spent $1200.00 on Buster from a petstore.. :x

Newcastle\";p=\"6872 said:
BYB are always, always going to be bringing puppies into this world because it's just an inconceivable thing to regulate.
I do understand your point, but I guarantee you that if people weren't buying irresponsibly-bred puppies, there would very soon not be very many!

AMEN to that!!  :D
 

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What's worse in your opinion - Pet shop or BYB? Maybe you should give people out there a few pointers because they are often going to go for a quicker or cheaper option than the pro breeder anyway...
It would be good to maybe start a forum topic with a few rules on what to look for if you are buying a boxer...I know a breeder is the best choice but a bit of advice on do's & don'ts might be very useful if they're going to buy them elsewhere anyway :roll:
How about it Newcastle? :D  Minimum age of puppy, warning signs regarding health, parents, living conditions etc. etc. I don't know enough but i sincerely think that you do.
 

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I agree, you really can't "rank" buying a puppy from a pet store vs. buying one from an irresponsible breeder.  It's like asking which is better, a murderer who uses a gun or a murderer who uses a knife - either way, they're still a murderer.  

Maybe you should give people out there a few pointers because they are often going to go for a quicker or cheaper option than the pro breeder anyway...
If you want a less expensive option than a responsible breeder ("pro" is often used, but implies profit which is most certainly not the case!), consider a rescue.  It may not be quicker - although many times it is - but you'll be doing a good deed, and if you can't afford a responsibly-bred puppy you may not be able to afford the first year's expenses either; with a rescue, the initial vet care is included in the adoption fee (heartworm test, vaccinations, stool check, spay/neuter, etc.), and you generally get to bypass the frustrating puppy challenges like teething, housetraining, crate training.  There are usually questions about the dog's background and genetic health - but you get those with an irresponsibly bred puppy as well.  (Most of the time, as well, rescues are less expensive even than irresponsibly-bred puppies.)

It would be good to maybe start a forum topic with a few rules on what to look for if you are buying a boxer...I know a breeder is the best choice but a bit of advice on do's & don'ts might be very useful if they're going to buy them elsewhere anyway
Well, I really can't advise on "how to buy a puppy from an irresponsible breeder" - I just don't think it's an acceptable thing to do.  I can, however, advise on how to discern whether the breeder you're considering is responsible or not.  I have a very comprehensive list of questions to ask breeders, with some sample answers and discussion of why those may or may not be "good" ones, on my website at: www.newcastleboxers.com/breederquestions.shtml

It's hard to do a nutshell, because there is so much to consider and so many ways irresponsible breeders try to fool people, but I'll give it a shot.

  • Puppies should never leave the dam/litter earlier than eight weeks of age.
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • Puppies should be active, curious, playful; they should have clear eyes and nose, shiny fur, pink gums; they should feel like 'solid' weight when you pick them up (though slightly thin is better than slightly fat).  
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • The puppies and their environment should be basically clean - but keep in mind that, especially when young, puppies aren't always mindful of where they eliminate and where they then step, and they are prone to stand *in* the food dish while eating.  There is a difference between uncared-for, filthy puppies, and typical messy puppies.  (There is also a difference, when looking at breeders' homes, between clutter and uncleanliness.  With a litter of puppies taking up most of a breeders' time, clutter can often become a problem!)  
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • Puppies should be kept, from three to four weeks of age up, in a room located in the center of the home, where there is constant activity and noise.  Pre-placement socialization is vital to a well-adjusted adult (as is post-placement socialization and training).  
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • Puppies should have been examined by a vet no more than a week before going to their new homes (this does not exclude vet visits prior to that age, of course).  Bonus points if the puppies are seen by a board-certified veterinary cardiologist at seven weeks or older.
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • The parents should have been screened for genetic health conditions, as recommended by the American Boxer Club at www.americanboxerclub.org/health-screening.html  (with the exception of Elbow Dysplasia which, while on the ABC list, is not a condition presently found in Boxers), and the breeder should be willing to provide you with hard copies of the test results (*before* you come to pick up your puppy).  Bonus points to breeders who do all the testing; minimum acceptable would be the heart testing.  (I do, as do most cardiologists, feel that auscultation by a board-certified veterinary cardiologist at or after two years of age is adequate screening, and a Doppler Echocardiogram is required only if indicated by the auscultation.)  If the pedigree is mostly pet dogs, I personally would want to see hip x-rays - dysplasia seems to be far more common among the pet lines.
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • While occasionally a breeder will have the right match for the bitch living in their house - especially long-time breeders who have developed an wide breeding program - for those newer to the breed this is the exception rather than the rule.  It is not necessarily a 'bad' thing, but certainly something to look into further - you want to know specifically why they chose that dog for that bitch, and why they didn't choose the other dogs they considered.  
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • You should be able to meet the dam of the litter, and see photos of the sire.  (If the sire is living in the house, of course, you should be able to meet him, as well.)  Meeting any other relatives is always a good thing, as it will give you some idea of the temperament you might see in your puppy.
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • Puppies should be reasonably priced (average for a pet is $900-1200, though there is variation, especially on the coasts), and pricing should not be based solely on gender, color, or markings.  You should not be charged extra for papers, or for full registration.  White puppies should never be more expensive than pet colored puppies, and in most cases from responsible breeders will be less.  
    [/*:m:2r3j953j]
  • Puppies should be placed on contracts, with a spay/neuter or non-breeding agreement for pet puppies, and limited registration.  The breeder should require you to notify them before you sell, place, or transfer ownership of the dog and give them the first chance to take it back; they should also be willing to take the dog back at any time throughout its life.[/*:m:2r3j953j]
(OK, that's a rather large nutshell and I'm sure I've missed a few points; really the article on my site addresses it far better.)
 

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Thanks for taking the time to do that :D  - it's really, really good advice and i hope that lots of people take note. Excuse my taking the liberty but i've posted it as a new topic so it'll come up in the forum index. It's too important to waste :)  - Thanks again, and here's to hoping lots of people read & follow your advice!
 

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Yeah thanks for taking time to do that... it is really important information. I'm glad to read the 10 things you listed... makes me feel better to know that those do described Odins breeder (the things a reputable breeder should do). Thanks so much... hopefully this info can help others before buying a puppy!
 
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