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Hi there, I have a 14 month old boxer boy who has lunged and attempts to eat everything on a walk. He has done this since I got him at 8 weeks old. I have owned two boxers over the years and neither of them did this, they just pulled like trains. He has been to classes, I have tried the treat method and the lease correction method, neither works, in fact correcting him, just makes him more stubborn. He even does this on his gentle leader and even on the gentle leader, he will do it with such force he has injured my arm and neck to the point I have to visit a chiropractor! He can walk extremely well on a leather collar and on his front pull harness. He slams his full body weight at the object whether it be a leaf, stone, anything really. He just zones out completly and he almost goes on the hunt for objects to lung at. I have tried everything, even increasing his raw food diet but nothing has made any difference (his tummy cannot tolerate kibble). I am at home all day, so he gets lots of attention and play time and exercise. Any advice will be gratefully received.
 

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You said he gets play time but how much free off leash time does he get? I this age they have lots of energy they need to burn off I have always let my dogs have their free silly time running in the yard but when it’s leash time it’s time to pay attention. A prong collar may help redirect your dogs attention I’m sure you can tell when he sees something he wants to lunge at before he does it give him a quick correction say no first though so he k owes he going to be corrected if he proceeds. Prong collars are not bad things used correctly they only are activated when pulled against.
 

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I would walk him on a prong collar. Be sure it is fitted correctly. He will self correct on it. There are some videos to see on proper use. Likely I would also once again take him to a certified trainer to work together with you.
 

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Thank you Luvmilboxers and Lindar51 for responding. Yes, he gets off lead play time every morning over the field with lots of other dogs. He has been to training classes since he was a puppy and also had two personal trainers, one reward based and one correction based. Neither has improved matters. Prong collars aren't widely used in the UK and they are frowned upon, I know they are probably really effective. But some of the looks I get when I correct him on the leash, make me feel awful and a complete failure!
 

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Hmm, Brittan huh? LOL, home of "Victoria Stilwell ." Based became on what I have seen and heard of how she work's? She would have my (Germansheapard) PTS because he "did not much care for people and stuff?" Now that did not happen and he became a great dog, saved me from two dogs on one occasion when I slipped on ice and went down while protecting him ... but that's another story.

AFAIK, "Prong Collar's," are Banned over there? And that is a "problem," for "shelter dog's, that can't be walked on a loose leash. Nice dog's get PTS, everyday because people "can't walk them." And just so you know a good trainer, using a "Prong Collar," could have your dog walking "Properly," on a Lose Leash, in about oh 5 minuets or so? Teaching an owner how to do what they do, takes a bit more time.

Three are basically three proper tool's that an owner can use to train there dog, to walk properly on a lose leash. First would be (if you understand what your doing) a regular collar and a Flat leash. And next would be my tool of choice ... a "British Slip Lead Leash!" Or a SLL, which is kind of odd, because we have lot's of members from Brittan on here and very few have any idea ... what that is?

Now if you understand how to walk a dog using a Regular and a Flat Leash a SLL, is a piece of cake? But I have found that teaching others to do the same with a SLL, not so much? The proper use of the "Prong Collar," is a much more easily transferable skill. And if fitted and used "Properly," it won't hurt your dog.

And if they are illegal, where you are? There is always something like these. :

I have no idea how these are fitted and to me, they seem like a "Modified," Martingale Collar? But whatever, if I did not know how to use a SSL and had to care about a Prong Bann? I'd go with a "Hidden Prong Collar." Hmm Ok, I just saw you confirmed what I suspected about the Prong collar. Well I am undeterred. :)

The "wrong tool," is only one of your current issues. Had you joined us 14 months ago and said "I'm going to use a "Harness of some kind or another?" I would have started with "You can't properly, correct a dog with a Harness, Engineering not withstanding, a Harness is designed for a dog to pull! Owners tend to not understand that, and it "usually," goes downhill from there.

A "proper Prong or SLL, correction," is so subtle that if one did not know what to look for ... you would not see it happen. :)

And it sounds like you "Dog Park," your Dog? Or whatever they do across the "Pond?" Yeah another "Heads Up," of mine is if you want to "teach your dog," that what you say "Does not matter?" Running around, "Hog Butt Wild," with a bunch of other hmm "poorly trained dog's," teaches your dog that what you say ... Does not matter. ANd that happens "All The Time."

And whoever and wherever you were having your Dog Trained? If it was a "Group Class?" It was a waste of time and money. If you can't have your dog Sit by your side "quietly," among alot of distractions (other dog's) ... your wasting both time and money.

We can help if you like (I think) if you like. But I like to try and cover "what an owner has done wrong first." You don't know where your going if you don't where you have been kind'a thing?
Ea
My first GSD (German Shepard Dog) carved me up like a turkey ... if I was gonna keep him? I'd needed to get my "Crap Together?" I got it done and he was a "Great Dog!" I did not need a leash for him ... we would trade taking point on walks. If he got tired of leading, he would step to the side let me lead and he would follow, pretty cool. :)

My current girl "Bella," Boxer/Pit yeah she is not that good? Easily better than most? But she is not "Human Aggressive," so I got kinda lazy. My Boxer Struddell was great on leash! Anyone could walk her, on leash the only reason I did not let her go off leash, was because I was not sure he had any kind of common sense? She was "Daddy's," Baby Girl."

And Bella, my current girl not my best work to be sure. But I understand how and why? I have not put the time and work into her but she is still easily better than most, but a dog without any serious issues? I find kinda boring so I got lazy, my bad. Welcome Aboard in any case and I got more. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmm, Brittan huh? LOL, home of "Victoria Stilwell ." Based became on what I have seen and heard of how she work's? She would have my (Germansheapard) PTS because he "did not much care for people and stuff?" Now that did not happen and he became a great dog, saved me from two dogs on one occasion when I slipped on ice and went down while protecting him ... but that's another story.

AFAIK, "Prong Collar's," are Banned over there? And that is a "problem," for "shelter dog's, that can't be walked on a loose leash. Nice dog's get PTS, everyday because people "can't walk them." And just so you know a good trainer, using a "Prong Collar," could have your dog walking "Properly," on a Lose Leash, in about oh 5 minuets or so? Teaching an owner how to do what they do, takes a bit more time.

Three are basically three proper tool's that an owner can use to train there dog, to walk properly on a lose leash. First would be (if you understand what your doing) a regular collar and a Flat leash. And next would be my tool of choice ... a "British Slip Lead Leash!" Or a SLL, which is kind of odd, because we have lot's of members from Brittan on here and very few have any idea ... what that is?

Now if you understand how to walk a dog using a Regular and a Flat Leash a SLL, is a piece of cake? But I have found that teaching others to do the same with a SLL, not so much? The proper use of the "Prong Collar," is a much more easily transferable skill. And if fitted and used "Properly," it won't hurt your dog.

And if they are illegal, where you are? There is always something like these. :

I have no idea how these are fitted and to me, they seem like a "Modified," Martingale Collar? But whatever, if I did not know how to use a SSL and had to care about a Prong Bann? I'd go with a "Hidden Prong Collar." Hmm Ok, I just saw you confirmed what I suspected about the Prong collar. Well I am undeterred. :)

The "wrong tool," is only one of your current issues. Had you joined us 14 months ago and said "I'm going to use a "Harness of some kind or another?" I would have started with "You can't properly, correct a dog with a Harness, Engineering not withstanding, a Harness is designed for a dog to pull! Owners tend to not understand that, and it "usually," goes downhill from there.

A "proper Prong or SLL, correction," is so subtle that if one did not know what to look for ... you would not see it happen. :)

And it sounds like you "Dog Park," your Dog? Or whatever they do across the "Pond?" Yeah another "Heads Up," of mine is if you want to "teach your dog," that what you say "Does not matter?" Running around, "Hog Butt Wild," with a bunch of other hmm "poorly trained dog's," teaches your dog that what you say ... Does not matter. ANd that happens "All The Time."

And whoever and wherever you were having your Dog Trained? If it was a "Group Class?" It was a waste of time and money. If you can't have your dog Sit by your side "quietly," among alot of distractions (other dog's) ... your wasting both time and money.

We can help if you like (I think) if you like. But I like to try and cover "what an owner has done wrong first." You don't know where your going if you don't where you have been kind'a thing?
Ea
My first GSD (German Shepard Dog) carved me up like a turkey ... if I was gonna keep him? I'd needed to get my "Crap Together?" I got it done and he was a "Great Dog!" I did not need a leash for him ... we would trade taking point on walks. If he got tired of leading, he would step to the side let me lead and he would follow, pretty cool. :)

My current girl "Bella," Boxer/Pit yeah she is not that good? Easily better than most? But she is not "Human Aggressive," so I got kinda lazy. My Boxer Struddell was great on leash! Anyone could walk her, on leash the only reason I did not let her go off leash, was because I was not sure he had any kind of common sense? She was "Daddy's," Baby Girl."

And Bella, my current girl not my best work to be sure. But I understand how and why? I have not put the time and work into her but she is still easily better than most, but a dog without any serious issues? I find kinda boring so I got lazy, my bad. Welcome Aboard in any case and I got more. :)
Hi Chip18, thank you for your post. No, prong collars aren't banned in the UK, to be honest I did not know, so I just googled it. I've just seen the online pictures of the damage they can do to a dog's neck, so I didn't want to go down that route. But, with all the online research I have done since owning my puppy, I don't think every dog in the states can be walking around with damaged necks. There is a trainer I found online that does use prong collars. The other training methods are not working, so I need to try something different. I didn't have this problem with my two previous boxers, pulling yes, lunging and injuring me on a walk no! When I walked him last night, he cut across me to lung at a leaf and I went on the floor again, it was painful and embarrassing! He runs on the field in the morning with the local dogs and he goes to a creche about once every two weeks, we did this as we got him at the end of the last Covid lockdown to socialise him, while we were waiting for classes to re-open. I have just ordered pet corrector spray from Amazon and will see what that does. I did try a choker, which of course, just choked him. I have bought a slip lead but did not want to hurt his neck, but he never seems to think of my neck and the chiropractor vists! What is an SLL correction?
 

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Well it sounds like the "Internet," has us tied? You thought dogs all across America wearing Prong Collars, were walking around with Damaged Necks and I thought the whole of the UK had banned Prong Collars? Looks like we were both wrong? :)

The "pet corrector spray," your ordering," if that is an aerosol? Just send it back, as it won't work. It's to slow and the scent will linger on the dog. The dog won't "associate," it with any kind of "Correction?"

A more effective additional tool, that does work (apparently) and if you have a "Bicycle," you may already have one? Would be "The Pet Corrector." The original not the one I think your talking about? If you have a "Bicycle?", You may already have one? As it's just a CO2 Bicycle air pump. It works by blasting air and noise at the dog as a "correction!"
And if you can say "No," at the same time ... they "should not be doing "whatever it was again."

I used to think the thing was a joke? But then I started to see "Online Trainers,: I follow and recommend using and recommending it to there client's. And usually they were client's that were "struggling," with proper "Prong Collar," corrections? So once I saw them use and recommend it? I did the same.

But as always the Devil is in the details? If you have a "Nervous, Skittish or Shy Dog," you can't use a PC on them ... it could scare the living crap out of them! And in that case, you have just set yourself back. But you know, sight on seen, I doubt that is your dog?

It sounds like he is just a "Spoiled A-Hole," and he is used to doing "What ever he want's," because, what are you going to do? You can't fairly correct a dog for doing something wrong? If he does not understand ... "what he is supposed to do?" And right now ... your dog does not how to walk on a lose leash?

And right now ... your dog is exhibiting one of the "worst behaviors on a leash, they can exhibit! And for what it is worth and I call it "Cutting across the Bow." It is both very rare and can be deadly to an owner! Your going to get hurt worst , if this continues. And I am going to guess, that it happens Lighting Fast and the next thing you know ... your on the ground?

Just so you know, dog's that do that? Are pretty rare? I am not a Pro. I work with my dogs and rescues and ... I have only seen "the cut across bow thing, once!" Millions of words, and hundreds of "issues," over many years and no has mentioned this happening? Aside from you, the only person, I know of having handled a dog that does that? Is well ... me! :)

It was a seriously, Big Headed that pulled like a "Freight Train!" The owner said, he had two other "Pit's," just like him and they also just pulled? But he did not care? But hey If you want to try and walk him ... go ahead. Of course I said sure "no problem?" Well I put a SLL, on him adjusted it high and snug and just waited for him to settle down? I knew something was going on here cuz it took about 10 minuets for him to settle down and sit.

During that time I said nothing to the dog. I just wait for them to Sit and look to me for direction. Usually, that process takes about 4 minuet's? But this dog was different? But after 10 minuet's or so ... finally he sit's and looks up at me for direction? Now ten minuet's not like seem like much? But it was about 6 minuets, longer than I used to? So we go up and down the block without issue, No big deal?

But he was "apparently," not done yet? Mr Big Headed Pitty, was smart enough to know, that his usual ... just pull straight ahead ... was not gonna work with me? But we go back to where start and this time ... he goes for "Plan B?"

We go back to the start, I wait for him to sit ... which he does pretty quickly, this time. And we go about five feet? And fast as greased lighting he cut's hard to the right in front of me?? How he did not take me down ... I have no idea? But I chalk that up as a lesson learned. The owner did not care. He said, I got two more just like him. No big deal.

So he left cause, his job at our house was done. That was many eight years ago and I still remember that dog. Now a "properly fitted "Prong Collar." A properly fitted "Prong Collar," can be self correcting? A SLL leash not so much?

Now perhaps Cesar Millan, could solve it in a few minuet's with a SLL, because if you notice ... that is all he uses. But near as I can tell, after years of watching his shows ... the cutting hard across in front of you seems to be pretty rare?

Ok enough for now. I am really big on details. Perhaps, annoyingly so? But the really good trainers, that I follow and tend to recommend, don't start out with corrections?

That can work but I don't know for how long? It's much better to first train your dog, so he learns to "Chill, the heck out," and is in a better place to learn and understand ... what you want them to do?

It's a "process," and it is/can be quite "time consuming?" But I am not a "Pro," so I can't say ... I can "fix," your dog in two to three week's? Costing thousands of dollars or I guess pound's? :)

I am just John Q Public, and based only on my Boxer experience? I doubt I'd be here. Kinda nutty, can be tricky to train but hey family and people friendly ... no big deal? What is there to talk about?

And thinking that? Was how I got I got trapped, in a New level of "Hell," by my first Working Line GSD? All dog's do not like people? IE ... this is not your other dog's? Lesson learned!

Now that is yet another long story. But suffice to say even though he did not like people, hated totter's and sent me to the ER for breaking up a "pack fight," (No Boxer) involvement ... he was a great dog!

And through it all, he never got a single "Correction, for untoward "Aggression," towards people! And he was well know in our little town and did met lot's of strangers ... he a large Blk GSD, and sigh no he was not a Wolf or a Werewolf. :)

But I learned a lot with him. And that is what I share. And the main Lesson is "Show them what you want and how, you expect them to behave!

And your "Walk Issue," is freaking serious ... that is a "really big deal!" He is gonna hurt you bad! Now a "Pro," using a SLL, or a "Prong Collar?" Could stop that cold and ... "Right Freaking," now! Great for them but not much use to you?

I have a plan ... but it would take some time and some changes in what he does "Day to Day!" But LOL, as you can see, it takes me a lot of words to explain the why of stuff. My Bad?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well it sounds like the "Internet," has us tied? You thought dogs all across America wearing Prong Collars, were walking around with Damaged Necks and I thought the whole of the UK had banned Prong Collars? Looks like we were both wrong? :)

The "pet corrector spray," your ordering," if that is an aerosol? Just send it back, as it won't work. It's to slow and the scent will linger on the dog. The dog won't "associate," it with any kind of "Correction?"

A more effective additional tool, that does work (apparently) and if you have a "Bicycle," you may already have one? Would be "The Pet Corrector." The original not the one I think your talking about? If you have a "Bicycle?", You may already have one? As it's just a CO2 Bicycle air pump. It works by blasting air and noise at the dog as a "correction!"
And if you can say "No," at the same time ... they "should not be doing "whatever it was again."

I used to think the thing was a joke? But then I started to see "Online Trainers,: I follow and recommend using and recommending it to there client's. And usually they were client's that were "struggling," with proper "Prong Collar," corrections? So once I saw them use and recommend it? I did the same.

But as always the Devil is in the details? If you have a "Nervous, Skittish or Shy Dog," you can't use a PC on them ... it could scare the living crap out of them! And in that case, you have just set yourself back. But you know, sight on seen, I doubt that is your dog?

It sounds like he is just a "Spoiled A-Hole," and he is used to doing "What ever he want's," because, what are you going to do? You can't fairly correct a dog for doing something wrong? If he does not understand ... "what he is supposed to do?" And right now ... your dog does not how to walk on a lose leash?

And right now ... your dog is exhibiting one of the "worst behaviors on a leash, they can exhibit! And for what it is worth and I call it "Cutting across the Bow." It is both very rare and can be deadly to an owner! Your going to get hurt worst , if this continues. And I am going to guess, that it happens Lighting Fast and the next thing you know ... your on the ground?

Just so you know, dog's that do that? Are pretty rare? I am not a Pro. I work with my dogs and rescues and ... I have only seen "the cut across bow thing, once!" Millions of words, and hundreds of "issues," over many years and no has mentioned this happening? Aside from you, the only person, I know of having handled a dog that does that? Is well ... me! :)

It was a seriously, Big Headed that pulled like a "Freight Train!" The owner said, he had two other "Pit's," just like him and they also just pulled? But he did not care? But hey If you want to try and walk him ... go ahead. Of course I said sure "no problem?" Well I put a SLL, on him adjusted it high and snug and just waited for him to settle down? I knew something was going on here cuz it took about 10 minuets for him to settle down and sit.

During that time I said nothing to the dog. I just wait for them to Sit and look to me for direction. Usually, that process takes about 4 minuet's? But this dog was different? But after 10 minuet's or so ... finally he sit's and looks up at me for direction? Now ten minuet's not like seem like much? But it was about 6 minuets, longer than I used to? So we go up and down the block without issue, No big deal?

But he was "apparently," not done yet? Mr Big Headed Pitty, was smart enough to know, that his usual ... just pull straight ahead ... was not gonna work with me? But we go back to where start and this time ... he goes for "Plan B?"

We go back to the start, I wait for him to sit ... which he does pretty quickly, this time. And we go about five feet? And fast as greased lighting he cut's hard to the right in front of me?? How he did not take me down ... I have no idea? But I chalk that up as a lesson learned. The owner did not care. He said, I got two more just like him. No big deal.

So he left cause, his job at our house was done. That was many eight years ago and I still remember that dog. Now a "properly fitted "Prong Collar." A properly fitted "Prong Collar," can be self correcting? A SLL leash not so much?

Now perhaps Cesar Millan, could solve it in a few minuet's with a SLL, because if you notice ... that is all he uses. But near as I can tell, after years of watching his shows ... the cutting hard across in front of you seems to be pretty rare?

Ok enough for now. I am really big on details. Perhaps, annoyingly so? But the really good trainers, that I follow and tend to recommend, don't start out with corrections?

That can work but I don't know for how long? It's much better to first train your dog, so he learns to "Chill, the heck out," and is in a better place to learn and understand ... what you want them to do?

It's a "process," and it is/can be quite "time consuming?" But I am not a "Pro," so I can't say ... I can "fix," your dog in two to three week's? Costing thousands of dollars or I guess pound's? :)

I am just John Q Public, and based only on my Boxer experience? I doubt I'd be here. Kinda nutty, can be tricky to train but hey family and people friendly ... no big deal? What is there to talk about?

And thinking that? Was how I got I got trapped, in a New level of "Hell," by my first Working Line GSD? All dog's do not like people? IE ... this is not your other dog's? Lesson learned!

Now that is yet another long story. But suffice to say even though he did not like people, hated totter's and sent me to the ER for breaking up a "pack fight," (No Boxer) involvement ... he was a great dog!

And through it all, he never got a single "Correction, for untoward "Aggression," towards people! And he was well know in our little town and did met lot's of strangers ... he a large Blk GSD, and sigh no he was not a Wolf or a Werewolf. :)

But I learned a lot with him. And that is what I share. And the main Lesson is "Show them what you want and how, you expect them to behave!

And your "Walk Issue," is freaking serious ... that is a "really big deal!" He is gonna hurt you bad! Now a "Pro," using a SLL, or a "Prong Collar?" Could stop that cold and ... "Right Freaking," now! Great for them but not much use to you?

I have a plan ... but it would take some time and some changes in what he does "Day to Day!" But LOL, as you can see, it takes me a lot of words to explain the why of stuff. My Bad?
Thank you for your detailed response, not your bad, I need all the helpful advice I can get. I have used the Pet Corrector spray on three walks, I haven't sprayed it directly on him, I sprayed it next to him just when he lunged. The first walk was yesterday evening and my other half walked him, so it was quite easy for me to use the spray. I had to have words with my other half as the first time I used the spray, my dog kept turning around like the noise had come from his rear end. My other half thought it was hilarius, which I put him straight on the fact that it wouldn't be so funny when he is away with work and I get to the point where I cannot walk him any longer. I walked him this morning and this afternoon and it was quite a breezy day with lots of leafs blowing around. He still attempted but I sprayed and this stopped him from using all his weight when he did it. He nuzzled my hand a few times as if to say "mum what just happened".

No, he definately is not nervous or skittish, he is extremely confident and then some. How dare you call my dog a "Spoiled A Hole", LOL. You are right of course, when he is out, he can walk really well, until he decides not to and turns into the "Spoiled A Hole" who injurs me.

I too have researched online that "cutting across the bow" as you put it, is very unusual.

I do watch Ceasar Milan on Youtube with the slip lead. I did use a slip lead for a few weeks, when he was smaller, but then he seemed to get used to it and it left a small bare patch on his neck, so I stopped, I know, I'm probably too soft. If the Pet Corrector spray does not work and he gets used to it, then I will try the slip again.

Thank you for your advice, it is much appreciated, I will keep you posted, and hopefully not from a hospital bed!🤕
 

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LOL, you are hilarious! :)

And I can be quite pedantic, I suppose? For instance there are two way's, to address a dog that has "issues." You can address the issue "directly," and just squash the bad behavior, and "Hope," it won't come back? Or address the "issue, indirectly, by Training Calmness, into your dog and the Bad behaviors can just disappear?

But your dog (this one is ... special) he has a happen that I think is pretty rare and can hurt you. So that crap has to stop!
And I have trained about dozen or so serious pullers, to walk well on a loose leash. And I have seen the "Cut Across Bow," thing once? Most dog's don't tend to do that?

He is actually, messing up my long term plan for you! And I usually advise and start with "Walk Your Dog." It is a big deal and it's not about exercise it's about Bonding.


But right now, you can't do that? If you told a "Pro," he does that? And I say with a SLL, it would be no issue. As soon as the dog cut's in front? With a "Properly Fitted SLL," if the dog is on your left and he cut's to the right? It would be immediate upward pressure on the leash (not a jerk) and guide Pull him back to the left, you can/could scoop his butt to move him faster w/o putting more pressure on is neck!

And I would say "Sit!" and most likely ... "Now try that again!" Now that works but a whole lot of skill is involved. But if you don't know "before," a dog would do that ... they can easily take you down?

But I am not big on telling owners thing's they can't do? I have a Plan B, for you. But I want to understand what kind of "Pet Corrector," you have? Just noise and air ... is all you need. Is that what you have?

And what are you walking him on? Any type of Harness thingy. is a no go and could actually hurt him! A flat leash and regular collar or a Martingale Collar would be a better choice?

And the SLL, well I find it to be a great tool! But ... not easy to master? If you don't understand it, it can be like trying to walk a dog with a wet noodle.

But I walked my 113 lb GSD and a client's 8 lb Pen/Chi on using a SLL. Although I did have to get a Show Lead for the Pen/Chi as the a Real British Slip Lead weighted almost the same as she did. :)

But she was a cool dog, I had to shield her once from a sigh, loose Pit! I guided, her behind me and she let me deal with this crap! We got "Pitty," back into his yard where he belonged w/o issue.

I got more but I want to know what "exactly," your Pet Corrector is? Cuz if it is just Air and Noise I got a plan. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
LOL, you are hilarious! :)

And I can be quite pedantic, I suppose? For instance there are two way's, to address a dog that has "issues." You can address the issue "directly," and just squash the bad behavior, and "Hope," it won't come back? Or address the "issue, indirectly, by Training Calmness, into your dog and the Bad behaviors can just disappear?

But your dog (this one is ... special) he has a happen that I think is pretty rare and can hurt you. So that crap has to stop!
And I have trained about dozen or so serious pullers, to walk well on a loose leash. And I have seen the "Cut Across Bow," thing once? Most dog's don't tend to do that?

He is actually, messing up my long term plan for you! And I usually advise and start with "Walk Your Dog." It is a big deal and it's not about exercise it's about Bonding.


But right now, you can't do that? If you told a "Pro," he does that? And I say with a SLL, it would be no issue. As soon as the dog cut's in front? With a "Properly Fitted SLL," if the dog is on your left and he cut's to the right? It would be immediate upward pressure on the leash (not a jerk) and guide Pull him back to the left, you can/could scoop his butt to move him faster w/o putting more pressure on is neck!

And I would say "Sit!" and most likely ... "Now try that again!" Now that works but a whole lot of skill is involved. But if you don't know "before," a dog would do that ... they can easily take you down?

But I am not big on telling owners thing's they can't do? I have a Plan B, for you. But I want to understand what kind of "Pet Corrector," you have? Just noise and air ... is all you need. Is that what you have?

And what are you walking him on? Any type of Harness thingy. is a no go and could actually hurt him! A flat leash and regular collar or a Martingale Collar would be a better choice?

And the SLL, well I find it to be a great tool! But ... not easy to master? If you don't understand it, it can be like trying to walk a dog with a wet noodle.

But I walked my 113 lb GSD and a client's 8 lb Pen/Chi on using a SLL. Although I did have to get a Show Lead for the Pen/Chi as the a Real British Slip Lead weighted almost the same as she did. :)

But she was a cool dog, I had to shield her once from a sigh, loose Pit! I guided, her behind me and she let me deal with this crap! We got "Pitty," back into his yard where he belonged w/o issue.

I got more but I want to know what "exactly," your Pet Corrector is? Cuz if it is just Air and Noise I got a plan. :)
The Pet Corrector I am using is Pet Corrector™ - Company Of Animals UK It is just noise and air. The slip lead I have is just a rope slip lead. Is a SLL slip lead different?

I have two embark front/back pull harnesses, a Kong harness, a gentle leader, a halti (which he would not tolerate, although he is not great with the gentle leader either), quarter check collar, flat leather collar, Red Dingo nylon collars, halti harness, you name it and I bought it out of hope and desperation! Two weeks ago I ordered the Sense-Ation harness, but that hasn't arrived yet, it is still in transit from the states. The only one I haven't tried yet is a martingle and of course trying to buy a gun and shoot him, which is what I feel like doing on a walk sometimes LOL.

What type of martingle would you suggest the nylon or the one with a chain? I walked him yesterday evening on his nylon collar and he was still lunging, but I was catching him before he slammed his fall body weight down with the Pet Corrector, which is quite effective. However, half way through the walk, as it was nearly getting dark and I was concentrating on using the Pet Corrector spray, I didn't see a Malamute who was walking across the road and walking perfectly with his owner, minding his own business and the Malamute's owner was even chatting on her mobile. And then, cue my "Spoiled Little A Hole"!, he cut across me and pulled me into the road, I had the Pet Corrector in the other hand, luckily as it was lateish there was only one car driving down the road, who stopped, it was so embarrassing. He didn't drag me out of aggression, it was a I want to play so, sod you mum.

I am going to try his slip lead tomorrow. When you state "you can/could scoop his butt to move him faster w/o putting more pressure on is neck!" What do you mean by scoop his butt? Is that the tap with the foot that Ceasar does? I am going to try his slip lead again tomorrow and follow your advice. I will probably have someone report me, you know the type with a small or large calm dog that looks like they are on valium when compared to a boxer! Wish me luck!:oops:

Once again thank you for your help.
 

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The Pet Corrector I am using is Pet Corrector™ - Company Of Animals UK It is just noise and air. The slip lead I have is just a rope slip lead. Is a SLL slip lead different?
Yep "Correct," tool (No pun intended) I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same tool.

And I did not think your dog, would be freaked out by it. Nervous, skittish dogs, it could most likely freak out? But confident dog's not so much. And I know ... talk is cheap. But it would be best (in your case) to cobind the use of the "PC," with a command.

Deploy and say "NO!" Say NO, at the same time, otherwise he could get used to it and it will have effect at all? Some Law Enforcement Department's were so concerned about the PC, that they started to train there dog's using " Bad Guy's" that would use them ... so that there dog's would get used to them and it would not deter them from doing there Job's.

So just saying if it is over used w/o Commands ... it could become ineffective? It Drops down low on the dog shoulders, as you walk and is no longer effective. And that is where people tend to struggle with it and say it does not work, I think? But I expect it to drop down? And for me, it does not matter, I do my prep work first, the guiding, steering changes in direction first and if I have time, usually in a distraction free environment.

And as we walk if the Lead slips down it does not matter. The dog knows what is expected of him. And I like to anticipate (Issues) before hand. Other dog's for instance, if I am walking an unknown dog, I would put the SLL, back into position and I would cross the street to avoid or step aside as far as possible. With my dog behind me to let the other dog pass by.

This works with a Dog that knows and respects you and understands that you are in control here. Right now you are trying to train your dog in the worst environment possible? A world full of distractions and possible (Four Legged Threats?) That is your local neighborhood! And LOL, I can confirm a "Fact," I was told by a friend on GermanShepardForum, while I was on an Anti Dog Park Triads ... "Most Dog Attacks Occur, Close To Home?"

Now that is broaching another topic, on which well I am a "Pro," (Based on Experience.) I was going on and about unknow dogs' and how Dog Parks were so Dangerous (and they can be!) But she asked me "Well if you don't go to Dog Parks, How come you are always telling us about how you are always having to Defend your dog's?

Well that stopped me cold! And I thought about and answered ... Well about 17 times or so? And yes always "Close To Home?" But "Dog Parks," can still suck and there is no point in looking for trouble?

And right now (nothing personnel) but your dog on a Walk would be exactly the type of Dog, I'd be looking for. Dog's did not greet my "Band Dawg," by charging at him? Now it would not be an issues cuz he would have behind me and under control. And just watching?

My dog would stay and as long as you still had yours by the leash, I could see if you needed help? But if it were bad dog one and bad dog two ... that could be a Dog Fight? But in the Live of the Free and Home of the Brave NV is an open carry state and some owners ... would not hesitate to Gun your Dog Down ... ie "I felt under threat!

Now that is not me or anyone I know ... I think? I don't own a gun but others do? It's jsut the real world and another reason to have a well behaved dog. :)

And yes, SSL is a Slip Lead Leash. The official name is a "British Slip Lead Leash," it's thicker and has the Leather Tab, to lock it into position. Up snug and high is where it is most effective. And you can guide your dog with it.


I have two embark front/back pull harnesses, a Kong harness, a gentle leader, a halti (which he would not tolerate, although he is not great with the gentle leader either), quarter check collar, flat leather collar, Red Dingo nylon collars, halti harness, you name it and I bought it out of hope and desperation! Two weeks ago I ordered the Sense-Ation harness, but that hasn't arrived yet, it is still in transit from the states. The only one I haven't tried yet is a martingle and of course trying to buy a gun and shoot him, which is what I feel like doing on a walk sometimes LOL.
What type of martingle would you suggest the nylon or the one with a chain? I walked him yesterday evening on his nylon collar and he was still lunging, but I was catching him before he slammed his fall body weight down with the Pet Corrector, which is quite effective. However, half way through the walk, as it was nearly getting dark and I was concentrating on using the Pet Corrector spray, I didn't see a Malamute who was walking across the road and walking perfectly with his owner, minding his own business and the Malamute's owner was even chatting on her mobile. And then, cue my "Spoiled Little A Hole"!, he cut across me and pulled me into the road, I had the Pet Corrector in the other hand, luckily as it was lateish there was only one car driving down the road, who stopped, it was so embarrassing. He didn't drag me out of aggression, it was a I want to play so, sod you mum. [/QUOTE]OK you have bought a lot of well Crap. And switching from this to that every couple of week's is going to be even more confusing for you dog?

I'd send all the "Crap Back," donate it, or burn it, so as not to curse others but that's me. And the foot scoop and it would be about a 270 degree spin to bring the dog to a sit beside? And no it's not Cesar's foot tap ... that is just to break the Dog's focus.

A scoop and spin as term it, would be an extremely advanced maneuver, that pretty much only a "Pro," could and would do ... if they "Messed Up! If you have to do that ... it means you got to close and the Dog under Your Care, is about to attack another Dog!

I saw it done by Jeff Gellman on youtube .... many years ago. He was rehabbing a dog (mostly he did not) and I think it was a "Lab?" And based on experience ... yeah those guy's are suspect in book (another story.) But he was walking the Dog and the Dog was doing pretty good. I think, well yeah he did have a unknown dog issue?

Well Jeff is walking the dog (in a neighborhood) and they pass a dog just laying on his front yard ... no fence, sigh. Well Jeff felt this was a learning opportunity as (this dog) under his care had just passed that dog with no reaction? SO let's go back and get closer ... But this time why the dog was there became clear, Jeff was (trying to pass back by the other dog) with his dog on the left and the other dog to the right.

But this time the Lab charged and cut across Jeff's front! In a Blink Jeff's arm went stright up and he used his foot/leg to spin the dog around and sent him right back to the left where he was!

He made him sit/stay not act a fool and they went on there way. I did something similar with my second puppy many years ago but it was to protect him. He was to my right because I did not want him next to traffic. We had just passed a house and from behind me I hear, a door slam open and People screaming? And I look back to see a massive Pitt, screaming fast towards my puppy?? I spun him around by the leash and with my foot to get him behind and I would deal with this A Hole Dog!

Well Mr Pitty, was not expecting to see me? All he saw was my puppy? My "sudden appearance," made him pause? And that gave his owners who were in hot pursuit, enough time to scoop him up, Problem solved. :)

So that is why I "term it a Foot Scoop." it's not really a "thing exactly?" It's just something some people can do by instinct? It's not really a "teachable thing?" If you have to "think," your out of time!

But for right now ... forget the SLL. You said somehow you hurt his neck with it? I need to know what that was about? Just get either Martingale (It's not actually a traing collar) but owners seem to be more comfortable using it, so ... whatever.

And fabric or chain, really makes no difference in how they work. They only constrict so far in either case. And they are really made to keep slippery headed dog's from chucking there collar at will? My puppy above (Stewie) was a master at collar chucking ... if crap went down ... he'd ditch his collar and then ... stay by side? It was annoying to me but hard to complain about?


Ok well this is long enough, I got more ... to say but see post 26 here for link's.


lot's of "Prong Stuff," cuz that is what work's. But the other Tylor Muto's links are where she start to focus your energy on.

And get him somewhere without distractions to start.

And the "Cutting across the Bow," bit LOL ... yeah I finally got it! To make it stop ... you need to send him a "message," cold fast and hard! I did not know how when "Big Headed Pitty," cut me off, out of the Blue?

But ... I forgot my current Dog Bella ... did that same crap to me once! But not with a Dog, (I sent her a hard No!) she wanted go after a Harley Davidson, radio blaring around a slow corner (we were on the sidewalk)?? Are you freaking cutting me! It was 5 years ago and I forgot mostly because ... she never pulled that crap again!

Now it will take a little bit of skill and timing? But aside from that ... pretty much anybody can do it! Now I would not give up on the "PC." But he strikes me as being "Pretty Headed?" You got to take him by surprise, and I got's something for him! The PC I don't think will work for him with this issue. :)
 

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Yep "Correct," tool (No pun intended) I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same tool.

And I did not think your dog, would be freaked out by it. Nervous, skittish dogs, it could most likely freak out? But confident dog's not so much. And I know ... talk is cheap. But it would be best (in your case) to cobind the use of the "PC," with a command.

Deploy and say "NO!" Say NO, at the same time, otherwise he could get used to it and it will have effect at all? Some Law Enforcement Department's were so concerned about the PC, that they started to train there dog's using " Bad Guy's" that would use them ... so that there dog's would get used to them and it would not deter them from doing there Job's.

So just saying if it is over used w/o Commands ... it could become ineffective? It Drops down low on the dog shoulders, as you walk and is no longer effective. And that is where people tend to struggle with it and say it does not work, I think? But I expect it to drop down? And for me, it does not matter, I do my prep work first, the guiding, steering changes in direction first and if I have time, usually in a distraction free environment.

And as we walk if the Lead slips down it does not matter. The dog knows what is expected of him. And I like to anticipate (Issues) before hand. Other dog's for instance, if I am walking an unknown dog, I would put the SLL, back into position and I would cross the street to avoid or step aside as far as possible. With my dog behind me to let the other dog pass by.

This works with a Dog that knows and respects you and understands that you are in control here. Right now you are trying to train your dog in the worst environment possible? A world full of distractions and possible (Four Legged Threats?) That is your local neighborhood! And LOL, I can confirm a "Fact," I was told by a friend on GermanShepardForum, while I was on an Anti Dog Park Triads ... "Most Dog Attacks Occur, Close To Home?"

Now that is broaching another topic, on which well I am a "Pro," (Based on Experience.) I was going on and about unknow dogs' and how Dog Parks were so Dangerous (and they can be!) But she asked me "Well if you don't go to Dog Parks, How come you are always telling us about how you are always having to Defend your dog's?

Well that stopped me cold! And I thought about and answered ... Well about 17 times or so? And yes always "Close To Home?" But "Dog Parks," can still suck and there is no point in looking for trouble?

And right now (nothing personnel) but your dog on a Walk would be exactly the type of Dog, I'd be looking for. Dog's did not greet my "Band Dawg," by charging at him? Now it would not be an issues cuz he would have behind me and under control. And just watching?

My dog would stay and as long as you still had yours by the leash, I could see if you needed help? But if it were bad dog one and bad dog two ... that could be a Dog Fight? But in the Live of the Free and Home of the Brave NV is an open carry state and some owners ... would not hesitate to Gun your Dog Down ... ie "I felt under threat!

Now that is not me or anyone I know ... I think? I don't own a gun but others do? It's jsut the real world and another reason to have a well behaved dog. :)

And yes, SSL is a Slip Lead Leash. The official name is a "British Slip Lead Leash," it's thicker and has the Leather Tab, to lock it into position. Up snug and high is where it is most effective. And you can guide your dog with it.




What type of martingle would you suggest the nylon or the one with a chain? I walked him yesterday evening on his nylon collar and he was still lunging, but I was catching him before he slammed his fall body weight down with the Pet Corrector, which is quite effective. However, half way through the walk, as it was nearly getting dark and I was concentrating on using the Pet Corrector spray, I didn't see a Malamute who was walking across the road and walking perfectly with his owner, minding his own business and the Malamute's owner was even chatting on her mobile. And then, cue my "Spoiled Little A Hole"!, he cut across me and pulled me into the road, I had the Pet Corrector in the other hand, luckily as it was lateish there was only one car driving down the road, who stopped, it was so embarrassing. He didn't drag me out of aggression, it was a I want to play so, sod you mum.
OK you have bought a lot of well Crap. And switching from this to that every couple of week's is going to be even more confusing for you dog?

I'd send all the "Crap Back," donate it, or burn it, so as not to curse others but that's me. And the foot scoop and it would be about a 270 degree spin to bring the dog to a sit beside? And no it's not Cesar's foot tap ... that is just to break the Dog's focus.

A scoop and spin as term it, would be an extremely advanced maneuver, that pretty much only a "Pro," could and would do ... if they "Messed Up! If you have to do that ... it means you got to close and the Dog under Your Care, is about to attack another Dog!

I saw it done by Jeff Gellman on youtube .... many years ago. He was rehabbing a dog (mostly he did not) and I think it was a "Lab?" And based on experience ... yeah those guy's are suspect in book (another story.) But he was walking the Dog and the Dog was doing pretty good. I think, well yeah he did have a unknown dog issue?

Well Jeff is walking the dog (in a neighborhood) and they pass a dog just laying on his front yard ... no fence, sigh. Well Jeff felt this was a learning opportunity as (this dog) under his care had just passed that dog with no reaction? SO let's go back and get closer ... But this time why the dog was there became clear, Jeff was (trying to pass back by the other dog) with his dog on the left and the other dog to the right.

But this time the Lab charged and cut across Jeff's front! In a Blink Jeff's arm went stright up and he used his foot/leg to spin the dog around and sent him right back to the left where he was!

He made him sit/stay not act a fool and they went on there way. I did something similar with my second puppy many years ago but it was to protect him. He was to my right because I did not want him next to traffic. We had just passed a house and from behind me I hear, a door slam open and People screaming? And I look back to see a massive Pitt, screaming fast towards my puppy?? I spun him around by the leash and with my foot to get him behind and I would deal with this A Hole Dog!

Well Mr Pitty, was not expecting to see me? All he saw was my puppy? My "sudden appearance," made him pause? And that gave his owners who were in hot pursuit, enough time to scoop him up, Problem solved. :)

So that is why I "term it a Foot Scoop." it's not really a "thing exactly?" It's just something some people can do by instinct? It's not really a "teachable thing?" If you have to "think," your out of time!

But for right now ... forget the SLL. You said somehow you hurt his neck with it? I need to know what that was about? Just get either Martingale (It's not actually a traing collar) but owners seem to be more comfortable using it, so ... whatever.

And fabric or chain, really makes no difference in how they work. They only constrict so far in either case. And they are really made to keep slippery headed dog's from chucking there collar at will? My puppy above (Stewie) was a master at collar chucking ... if crap went down ... he'd ditch his collar and then ... stay by side? It was annoying to me but hard to complain about?


Ok well this is long enough, I got more ... to say but see post 26 here for link's.


lot's of "Prong Stuff," cuz that is what work's. But the other Tylor Muto's links are where she start to focus your energy on.

And get him somewhere without distractions to start.

And the "Cutting across the Bow," bit LOL ... yeah I finally got it! To make it stop ... you need to send him a "message," cold fast and hard! I did not know how when "Big Headed Pitty," cut me off, out of the Blue?

But ... I forgot my current Dog Bella ... did that same crap to me once! But not with a Dog, (I sent her a hard No!) she wanted go after a Harley Davidson, radio blaring around a slow corner (we were on the sidewalk)?? Are you freaking cutting me! It was 5 years ago and I forgot mostly because ... she never pulled that crap again!

Now it will take a little bit of skill and timing? But aside from that ... pretty much anybody can do it! Now I would not give up on the "PC." But he strikes me as being "Pretty Headed?" You got to take him by surprise, and I got's something for him! The PC I don't think will work for him with this issue. :)
[/QUOTE]
Hi Chip, your advice is proving invaluable. Now, you have told me to guide him with the slip, I get it. When I used it a few months ago it was just tightening and it left a small bare patch of fur on the underside of his neck. The slip I have is a smooth rope slip, it was only £10.00 so I must invest in a better quality one or a leather one, what do you think? I have read your post 26 and I am working my way through it. I have also put Larry Krohn, Geoff Gellman and Tylor Muto on my Bookmarks list and will start watching them. I must admit before I joined the forum I was watching Beckman Dog Training on Youtube and he is very good but the method he uses for leash walking/lunging, just didn't work for me, and goodness knows I tried it for long enough.

I have gone through two sets of training classes and two personal trainers, and I know you stated that your not a "pro", but your advice has actually got me results with how to use the slip. His first walk this morning was really good, I have to keep guiding him/steering him to my side as any distraction be it vehicle or dog to play with he starts pulling out wide. He did lung towards the end at a peice of moss and he twisted my knee, but as he was being really good I had put the Pet Corrector in my rucksack as I thought I wouldn't require it for the rest of the walk, so that was my fault.

And I understand the "butt scoop" now you've explained it. I'm not quick enough to do it, but I have been doing the turns.

I have started the "place" command on an old bathmat! It is even making him a bit more obedient with the "bed" command (he usually jumps in bed and jumps back out!). We went to the pet shop yesterday and three customers in the shop made a fuss of him and he didn't jump up once, incredible. I have put a picture on my profile of my "spoiled little A hole"😄
 

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Hmm, I took a brief look at Tom Beckman's, "work." and I will say I am impressed, with some of what he say's but not a fan of the Gentle Leader. But that aside the only thing, three actual Dog Trainers will agree with, is that one of them is wrong. :)

As long as you know the "basics of a given technique?" It's "OK," to deviate , based on what you can do or your dog. I learned this many years ago on Germanshepardforum,Com, My old stumping ground, I was helping a member with a St Bernard, with issues.

And I said of course start with "Place and Sit on The Dog," And Gellman, for one say's "The Place Command," trains "Calmness, Into The Dog." You can't train anything if the dog is anxious? And of the two, pretty much anyone I would recommend and follow, trains, Place and Sit on the Dog, is kinda esoteric? But I have used them with both a "Fear of People Boxer?" And "Sit on the Dog," seemed to make enough of a difference, that the dog got adopted one week after I worked with him? I was kinda stunned? As I wanted that dog but he was gone? But that was Good News," I suppose?

Not sure if I posted this, so here it is again?


I have used it myself and it does seem to work? and on GermanshepardShepard.Com, one of the "Big Dawg's," teaches all his client's to do it as a matter of course. It's actually a very old technique. But it still work's. I know at least one member on here that used it, and reported back, great result's with his dog. And when, I did it myself ... I modded it, I did not "Sit on the leash,' to shorten it up. It was a 6 foot leash and I let the dog move about ... as I sat on a very busy outing ... "Adaptation Day Event."

On occasion he would walk to the end of the leash, I would not move or say anything and he would stop ... "say ok then?" And just sit or come back closer to me ... I did or said nothing, you have 6 feet dog and for right now, that is it.

Now the "Place Command," this is where I have a "heads Up," on some "Pro's?" As I remember where I came from, JQP can put a "spin," on something they have heard and it still can work?
So strictly speaking, you should use a "Place Cot." to train "Place?" The change in elevation makes it "easier," for the Dog to understand where he is suppose to be? Now for a "Pro," that makes sense cuz, time is money ie the sooner they can train something ... the sooner they can move to the next steps and dog.

But do you have to use a "Place Cot?" I would say No, you don't? Time Patience and a leash can achieve "pretty much" the same thing? Tylor Muto and Larry Khron show the process, So no need for me to go over it. But people "apparently," do stuff?

I helped the Sanit Bernard owner with her dog and "Place," and she finally reported back that it was going great! And she reported back that "indoors," she was using an "Ottman as a Place Cot." indoors? I had a baby cow, but she said "hey whatever it works!"

He sit's there anyway ... so what is the difference? Now I can put him there say "Place." and he won't move until I say so.? LOL well many years later with a new dog, I decide to test that out? My "problem, that is still not happening with her," I expect her to get a "Grip," on her own and just behave without instruction? It's been 5 years and well, yeah that is a still a "No Go?" Without instructions she is still a "nut ball," with me and strangers?

But ... if I "Tell her Place!" And point to the "Sofa," that end's the "Maddness." If I say "Place," and point to where I want her to go .... that is it! No more whining and crying and moving about. She stays on the Sofa and shut's the hell up! And :place," means you "stay," there and don't move from their until I tell you so!

My wife does not get this! It ticks me off! I am pretty patient? I will put up with a lot of "Bella's, crap before saying anything? That part where I am waiting for her to "get a grip, on her own?" She is not my GSD ... ao "getting a grip on her on accord, does not seem to be something she is capable of? But ... I persist,. :)

My wife however sigh, does not get it? Sometimes well most of the time, when I come from work, I do just ignore Bella, and she will just jump on the sofa snd "wait." B ut sometimes my wife has enough and tell s her "Place and points to the sofa?"

And that ticks me off! Because she won't release her? So "Bella," get's to decide ... well I have been here long enough? So I can get off now?

A dog decided, when they can move is not "Place?" I get that Marily does not and when I take "Bella,: out and about and tell her "place," and "point?" I have to worry if she will "Break Command?"

A nd "Bed," just "No." Bed is not the same as "Place?" To start "Bed," tends to be used at home? And the Dog knows where "Bed," is? But if you are out and about and you say "Bed?" Well to the dog, where is that exactly? ANd generally speaking if you say "Bed," it means the dog can hop up on the "Bed," and get off ... when ever he pleases? "Place," means you can there dog. You can just "point and say Place.' Where ever and the dog should not move until you release them.

And a "proper," two hour "Place Command," would be "Two Hour's!" My GSD could do that with out issue! My current girl "Bellam" LOL ... not a chance? But hey I don't need that level of
compliance with her? She can be just a "PIA," but not a thread to people. My bad??


So, I wanted to get that said ... and I'll talk about the SLL and the Darting in front of you issue next.
 
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