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Discussion Starter #1
Just heard an interesting story from my mailman. Another mailman in another part of the town was bit by a boxer. Hand got pretty tore up and needed stitches.

As far as the story, this mailman has known this boxer for awhile, always very friendly. Yesterday he was dropping off a box, was returning to his truck, the owner opened the door and the dog went running out and latched onto his hand.
 

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Oh ... Ok, I saw Matt74, and bit "Mailman??" And I was like WTH??? But I see now ..."not your dog."So all is still right with the universe. :)


This is just a case of same old, same old. And ... "to much dog" for the "current owner!" I have a pretty low threshold for crap behaviour! Some of it you can let go and some off uh NO! My Struddell ... got away with a lot of "crap behaviour??" Company come over, well she was not a poster child for the well behaved, ... my bad. :chair:

But we had "hard and fast rules and she "understood" the limits of "acceptable behaviour" and she stayed "within the rules!" A dog that bolts out of "Doorways" for me, ...is not acceptable! If you can't stop "that" then you ought not to have a real dog!

Now I don't have any idea what the lineage of the Boxer involved was?? But if I had to guess ... I'd say it was either a full Euro or American Euro cross?? And it was "too much dog for that owner!"

I had one of the worst of the worst as regards "I don't much care for people" dogs in the form of my Oversized Working Line GSD. That was a dog ... that made it early on ... that he did not uh much care for strangers! I took him at his word! But busting out the doorway to go after someone?? Uh "NO" that would not ever happen!

It's the little crap like that, that distinguishes, those who can from those who can't! And why I get to say ... some K9 Officers ... aren't that good!! An attack trained patrol dog ...under the wife's watch ... "door bolted one morning and bit a neighbor in the butt!"

I merely pointed out that well "clearly" that guy is not as good at the dog as I am! Cause you know my GSD that did not like uh "anyone" aside from me and maybe three other people ... who never "Chose to Door Bolt!" It was not a popular position on a GSD Forum. :)

But hey facts are facts! At any rate, I hope the owner of that dog seeks help?? Because that owner is "clearly" over there head! And now the dog has a "bite history" and no one wants, well few, want and can handle a dog that bites.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, wasn't Zuke. lol

I don't know all the particulars, but apparently this boxer has known this mailman for a long time, gets treats from him, never even a hint of an issue.

Seems very out of character for a boxer and the limited info I have about this.
 

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No doubt it's weird??? Why it happened is kinda weird. But how it happened ...it is pretty simple. The dog went full"Red Zone!" He bite someone so I don't see how that statement can be challenged?? But perhaps I lack imagination?? :)

But dogs "default" to know trained behaviours. If a situation comes up and they don't understand what to do ... they will default to what they know. And doing that ...gets them time to think??

This dog "apparently" had no default door behaviour?? I bet this was not the first time he'd done this?? But you know prior to this incident ... no big deal?? But this time ...not so much! He bit someone with "intent to do harm!"

There was no default behaviour (ie wait at thresholds until released) and thus ... no "safety" as it were. He thoughts (the dog) was simply there is an "issue" outside ... and I'm gonna take care of it! There was no "thinking" involved ... the dog had no idea "who he was going after??" I'm pretty sure the dog took the owner by surprise also?? And a Boxer can o from zero to 30 plus ... pretty freaking quick! Good luck stopping that!

And not know uh anything! I would speculate, that if that Boxer ...was willing to engage with "intent to do harm" with a stranger?? That most likely ... that owner saw some behaviours that he did not understand and thus ignored?? There was "something" prior to this, that would have been "concerning" to a more "heads up" owner??

Dogs are either "people friendly" or they are not ... they don't screw around! :)

I proofed that one on a walk with my (formerly H/A) GSD and a newly rescued "Pit" fresh off the street rescue on a walk. We were on a walk and we got stopped by "Strangers" that asked to pet my dogs! My GSD first (Rocky) first ... Fiver years or so with him and when asked to pet ... I said "I'd rather you did not." Then they asked to pet .. would have been Sally ... fresh off the street rescue ... I'd know for 24 hours!

And I say ... sure, knock yourself out! Went just fine ... Sally Luv'd people! No questions about it! I 'could tell" that Sally a full on no BS Pure Breed Pitt ...just Luv'd people! And yeah I was right. The Boxer in question here yeah he did bite someone but I'm pretty sure that there were signs ... that he would/could do this and the sighs were ignored by the owner??? But I don't know??
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah, would love to know more about the circumstances regarding the attack. Kind of weird too, because I don't live in a big town and all the boxer owners kind of know each other. I have no idea who this one is though. Only other thing I could think of is its a boxer-pbt mix. A lot of those at the shelters around here for some reason.
 

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Aww, the old pit or derivative thereof bit (no pun intended!) :)

It could be a Johnson type American Bulldog in that case?? They look just like a Boxer ... on freaking steroids! I don't know that they have "people issues??

Actually I don't know if those guys do anything useful these days working wise?? I few them as a "Bull Dog" with legs!! Looking cool is good enough! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Aww, the old pit or derivative thereof bit (no pun intended!) :)

It could be a Johnson type American Bulldog in that case?? They look just like a Boxer ... on freaking steroids! I don't know that they have "people issues??

Actually I don't know if those guys do anything useful these days working wise?? I few them as a "Bull Dog" with legs!! Looking cool is good enough! :)
Yeah I got it all 2nd hand, even my mailman was saying no way its a boxer, but they were saying it was. Although my mailman is used to Zuke, he owns two GSD's and says Zuke is happier to see him everyday more than his own dogs. lol
 

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Now I don't have any idea what the lineage of the Boxer involved was?? But if I had to guess ... I'd say it was either a full Euro or American Euro cross?? And it was "too much dog for that owner!"
What are you talking about? – heard a rumor about a dog that.., you assume if it is a boxer it’s a “full euro”? Owner needs help? – assumption after assumption without knowing if the story is true or the background / facts. You don’t know much about what you call “euro” boxers do you? Yet you try to portray them as some kind of loose cannon. But it does sound good throwing in the “working dog”, “prey” and “Lines” verbiage every now and then. Kudos to you on your low tolerance “crap” behavior – too much of the same copy paste verbiage in your posts -getting others asking themselves if they have the right dog.
 

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benthebandit...Chip is just chatting his feelings about a situation. He has given a lot of good advise to others struggling. Don't agree with the euro/or/working line. I had a neighbor with euro boxers, the family was transferred here temporaitly. They were just the same as American line only built more muscular. I didn't see any difference in their personality. I think a lot of the "working line" goes into how you train your dog and to me "working line" is more that the dog is built and can perform certain tasks. Possibly some "lines" are a better fit for it. Years ago, like 40, lol, I had a GSD from working lines. Both sire and dam were shutzhund trained, and I think had many rewards. He was a bit more difficult to train, took a bit longer but with the help o f a good GSD club he probably ended as one of my best trained dogs ever and I learned a whole lot back then.

There are a lot of folks getting dogs and not training but treat them as children without rules. LOL I see it in my neighborhood everyday. They let them run out the front door to play with their neighbors dog, playdate..but never mind the person walking down the street possible with their dog who wants no part of it. I've had them run up to me, jump on me and the owner say of Sorry no worries he is friendly, he just wants to say hi, never mind that I recently had knee replacement and was still quite wobbly. Chips advise to them is very good.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What are you talking about? – heard a rumor about a dog that.., you assume if it is a boxer it’s a “full euro”? Owner needs help? – assumption after assumption without knowing if the story is true or the background / facts. You don’t know much about what you call “euro” boxers do you? Yet you try to portray them as some kind of loose cannon. But it does sound good throwing in the “working dog”, “prey” and “Lines” verbiage every now and then. Kudos to you on your low tolerance “crap” behavior – too much of the same copy paste verbiage in your posts -getting others asking themselves if they have the right dog.
Well the story is true. Now if it was a purebred Boxer, I have no way of knowing. Can only go by what the mailman told me.

I have a euro/american boxer, great dog.
 

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What are you talking about? – heard a rumor about a dog that.., you assume if it is a boxer it’s a “full euro”? Owner needs help? – assumption after assumption without knowing if the story is true or the background / facts.
I "assumed" it was a Boxer because that is what we were told. It was "Breaking News" as it were. And as "facts" roll in ... things change??

And I "assumed" the owner needs help with his "DOG" because as reported, regardless of "Breed" the dog bolted out the door and bit ... "Someone!" Not bolting pass a "threshold" is a pretty low standard in my book?? If your dog "bolts/pass" you and bits someone??? That is an "Unimaginable Fail" in my "opinion" and "You" suck as a "Responsible Dog Owner!"

My number one rule is "Don't make my dogs problem, ... someone else's problem??? And that include a (Fromely Dog Aggressive) American Band Dog, and a fromely Human Aggressive Wl GSD. And no Yank and Crank required, thank you very much ... P/O (Show them what you want and how you expect them to beave) and thanks to "cut and paste" or "links" actually ... anyone willing to do so ... can do the same things, if they have a "Dog" with issues! So yessss, my standards of "Acceptable Behaviour" from my dogs ... are pretty freaking high! If everyone held their, dogs to the same standards, Dog Bite stats would go way down in this country, from the "To much Dog for you crowd." Just saying. :)



You don’t know much about what you call “euro” boxers do you? Yet you try to portray them as some kind of loose cannon. But it does sound good throwing in the “working dog”, “prey” and “Lines” verbiage every now and then. Kudos to you on your low tolerance “crap” behavior – too much of the same copy paste verbiage in your posts -getting others asking themselves if they have the right dog.
Well nope I don't have a Euro, people that do have them, seem to report back that they are indeed kinda "Goofy." It's kind of an odd point to have a disagreement over but hey Boxer folks you know.


But facts are facts and what I know (unless things have changed lately??) Is that in American you won't find a single American Line Boxer in IPO or doing the K9 thing??? But the Euro's ... lot's of them all seem to be in the MidWest, for some reason?? I only knew of one American Line Boxer doing the K9 thing, and that was 10 or 12 years ago. And that dog was retired ... I figured well I found one so surely there must be more but "Nope Apparently Not???" It was simply a case of "There is always that guy and that Dog." But apparently trying to find an American Line Boxer, with the right stuff to do that kinda "work" is just not worth the time and effort to "try" and find, so those that dog and want a "Boxer" get a "Euro." So clearly ... they are "different???" Nuff Said.
 

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Yeah I got it all 2nd hand, even my mailman was saying no way its a boxer, but they were saying it was. Although my mailman is used to Zuke, he owns two GSD's and says Zuke is happier to see him everyday more than his own dogs. lol
I think as a general rule ... "GSD's" tend to be a bit more "restrained" in their "affection??"

I did not start with a "hand picked" puppy. Rocky was seven months old when I got him and for another 7 months and then at about the 14 month ranger or so ... all Hell Broke Loose??? The old "my dog changed thing???" Happens on GSDForum, all the time. :)

116 lbs of fur and fury ... cut loose on my Band Dawg "WTH??" And I met "Fury with Fury!!" Yeah ... that did not work?? And after that stopped when rocky Passed (due to unrelated issues) came the Human Aggression and again a "WTH" moment???

And yes I had "legal ownership of him" but there was no "respect" or "bond" between us?? That is when I "changed" and although I did not know it at the time ... I started to work on developing that "bond and respect."

And what I then started to do that I had not done ... was "Walk" him! We had "open desert" lot's of room to run with Gunther and Struddell, so you know why "bother walking him???" And we just walked many, many miles in silence. Ignoring people and other dogs ... "do nothing dog and follow me" that's your "JOB!" And over the course of weeks or months maybe ... don't know as I did not care, he changed???

And not a "pro" so I did not notice?? But it became "clear" to me, that we were "now" a "team," when I slipped on the ice while defending him against two charging dogs! I'd told him to "Stay" and stepped in front to "defend" him and I persuaded the one dog to stop but the other kept coming???

Well screw him I'm not gonna move! And as I braced for impact .... I slipped on the ice and went down!! Rocky was still behind at that point and the remaining dog was almost on us. It was then that Rocky "said hmm" I've not seen this before??? And stepped over me with a loud roar and flashing teeth!?? Only my continued grip on the leash saved that dog as he rethought his life's choices!! I was freaking stunned?? And at that point I realized he was now "my" dog and we were a team!

But back on point ... nope I would imagine that his dogs are not as demonstrative, in there display of affection as Zuke?? But if you ask him and unless he forbids it ... in the home, his dogs are gonna be lying quietly at his feet or near by. They have a more restrained "devotion" to owner as it were??

Now my Struddell on the hand LOL, nothing "subtle" about her! :cheers:
 

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benthebandit...Chip is just chatting his feelings about a situation. He has given a lot of good advise to others struggling. Don't agree with the euro/or/working line. I had a neighbor with euro boxers, the family was transferred here temporaitly. They were just the same as American line only built more muscular. I didn't see any difference in their personality. I think a lot of the "working line" goes into how you train your dog and to me "working line" is more that the dog is built and can perform certain tasks. Possibly some "lines" are a better fit for it. Years ago, like 40, lol, I had a GSD from working lines. Both sire and dam were shutzhund trained, and I think had many rewards. He was a bit more difficult to train, took a bit longer but with the help o f a good GSD club he probably ended as one of my best trained dogs ever and I learned a whole lot back then.

There are a lot of folks getting dogs and not training but treat them as children without rules. LOL I see it in my neighborhood everyday. They let them run out the front door to play with their neighbors dog, playdate..but never mind the person walking down the street possible with their dog who wants no part of it. I've had them run up to me, jump on me and the owner say of Sorry no worries he is friendly, he just wants to say hi, never mind that I recently had knee replacement and was still quite wobbly. Chips advise to them is very good.
Aww thanks! :clap:

I try and help members get it right by also sharing what I did wrong??? No need for people to make the same old mistakes, when they can learn from other's how "not to do it" also!

When I had my people "issues" with Rocky, there was "nothing and no one" that said "This is what to do??" Well actually there was ... but I did not know who they were at the time?? And the only advice for that one could find on "Forums" was "Find a Trainer!" And "Good Luck" going down that rathole without guidance?? If one "knows nothing" all trainers ... look pretty much the same??? No one can solve my dogs "issues" better than me and I kept it simple, in order to accomplish it! The "only" issue I had as a lone wolf "doggy" rehabber, was not recognizing "progress." A member of the public "volunteered to "proof' Rocky for me! On a walk ... I could not "ditch the guy!
But he was a GSD guy and wanted to meet us (Rocky and myself) and I told Roc to stay and I stepped in front of Rocky as I had done numerous times in the past. He asked me well what are you doing and explained "what and why" "People Issues."

I figured at that reply ... he'd be on his way?? But no instead he asked ..."Well, had it worked??" That response, I was not excepting?? I turned and looked at Rocky and he had that "same old, same old this bit look on his face??" No tension, no apprehension, if "Dad" is good with this guy ... then so am I! I stepped aside and said OK. He petted Rocky on the head and Rocky kinda wagged his tail, and he said "nice Dog you have there. :)

The Euro's LOL, well sure "I" maybe overly suspicious of them, granted??? But now ...it's slowly dawning on me that perhaps I am asking the wrong question??? As the same traits that make the American Line Boxers "an unlikely" prospect in the IPO/LE, role are more than likely the same "traits" that do make them "attractive" in their role as "Family Pet!" "That is the AL Boxers primary job in America. And they are very, very good at it! To the exclusion of other "stuff" apparently. :)
 

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I've found the two Euro Boxers I have were thoroughly socialized before I got them. They'd been out, and about. They swam, experienced different types of dirt and pavement. They were exposed to loud, and strange sounds. Since they're being bred for the specific purpose of working, they have to meet certain standards of performance, and be acceptable for work. I'd sort of describe their personality as being Dudley Do-right. We did notice they are about six times as strong as the American dog we had. Owners really need to be on top of training for any large dog, especially dogs that want to protect the family.


They certainly are as silly, and loving as the American lines I've seen. I had my male try the CGC test at a Boxer Rescue Gala. He was under 9 months, and hadn't had any training for it. Darned if he didn't pass it, and that was with all kinds of noise, and strangers around. He'd been exposed to so much as a puppy, he was not rattled at all. So much for my 2-cents.
 

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It's most likely a insecure, fearful dog.
Nothing in the story would suggest otherwise.
There is zero reason to think this was a working/euro line dog.
Just a boxer with pour nerve/temperament. There are a ton of them out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It's most likely a insecure, fearful dog.
Nothing in the story would suggest otherwise.
There is zero reason to think this was a working/euro line dog.
Just a boxer with pour nerve/temperament. There are a ton of then out there.
Only part I can't understand is why it would turn on a person he knows(the mailman), and apparently he has been giving him treats for a few years. Just a weird scenario. I was thinking maybe the dog was running out to get a treat, but why it mangled his hand, I don't know
 

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Only part I can't understand is why it would turn on a person he knows(the mailman), and apparently he has been giving him treats for a few years. Just a weird scenario. I was thinking maybe the dog was running out to get a treat, but why it mangled his hand, I don't know
Well, one of the important parts of the story is " the mailman was returning to his truck"
His back was to the dog.
So let say the dog has rehearsed guarding the door, house from outside "intruders" (people, cars, birds, dogs..etc). The dog has conditioned itself to think.. when I bark and act big and bad I push/scare the intruders away.
It would take very little for that to turn into: the intruder is moving away but not fast enough, I'll chase in away..

Now, do I know that's what the dog was doing.. no. But it's a educated guess after working with hundreds of dogs.
It would not be uncommon to find out that even though he "liked" the mailman, he also rehearsed the guarding as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, one of the important parts of the story is " the mailman was returning to his truck"
His back was to the dog.
So let say the dog has rehearsed guarding the door, house from outside "intruders" (people, cars, birds, dogs..etc). The dog has conditioned itself to think.. when I bark and act big and bad I push/scare the intruders away.
It would take very little for that to turn into: the intruder is moving away but not fast enough, I'll chase in away..

Now, do I know that's what the dog was doing.. no. But it's a educated guess after working with hundreds of dogs.
It would not be uncommon to find out that even though he "liked" the mailman, he also rehearsed the guarding as well.
Thanks Brian.
 

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They certainly are as silly, and loving as the American lines I've seen. I had my male try the CGC test at a Boxer Rescue Gala. He was under 9 months, and hadn't had any training for it. Darned if he didn't pass it, and that was with all kinds of noise, and strangers around. He'd been exposed to so much as a puppy, he was not rattled at all. So much for my 2-cents.
Darn it ... I lost my original reply. :(

But I guess to make it short ... OK point taken from those that actually have them, the reports coming in, seem to be that the Euro's are goofy also! It is a rather odd bone of contention but Boxer owners and there Boxers you know. :clap:

Good enough but that does bring me back to after WWll and what did they do with the Boxers that were "already in America for Decades" and the "to fierce for Americans, Boxers, from Germany??? What were the American Boxers that were already here like in the early days (pre WWll day's??) Clearly ... they did something, they were just another Breed before WWll and the in Breed afterwards??? Gotta find that book, I read a very, very long time ago.

But I wanted to say "Congrats on passing the CGC test!" Getting that done is something more "Boxer" owners should commit to do! But like Euro Boxers in America, you gotta know it and they are out there! :)
 

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I don’t let anyone (ever) except the family, feed my dog or give him treats. We use treats to train with, not to socialize with strangers, no matter who it is.
Dog “aggression” is basic instinct, and is part of their genetics and evolution. Generally, it’s their way of letting humans, other animals / dogs understand they need to keep their distance. Distance can be very close of further away. A dog that growls or barks is not necessarily an aggressive dog nor is it a method to understand the future behavior of a dog – and it is definitely not an immediate sign of a (bad) behavioral issue. To often we jump to conclusions – a dog that growls when another dog is nearby when it eats doesn’t mean it will behave badly in other situations. There are distinct behavioral aggression patterns, from defensive aggression to proactive aggression -the body language is completely different, not to mention the “fear biter” – quite often a dog that obeys its owner thru fear and bites because it has no idea what it should be doing.
If a dog growls when other are nearby when it eats, then this may never change – this doesn’t mean that the dog has a behavioral issue per say, and it also doesn’t mean the owner shouldn’t have a dog because it cant get it under control. Quite often it’s a situation by situation issue.
Some people tend to go into panic mode, this is the worst thing that can happen.
 
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