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Flexi leashes, leashes longer than 6ft, tie outs and etc are all illegal in my area too
OK then. If "prong Collar's," are illegal where you are??? That goes a long way in explaining, the complete lack of understanding of what they do and how they work!

And it seems like you have pretty much zero, chance of finding anyone that understands and could show you how to use a "Prong Collar"properly, were you are?? Sigh ... that's to bad cuz this would be about a two minute fix with a properly fitted Prong Collar and you'd have to do uh next to nothing! A self correcting solution as it were. Course if they are "Illegal" ??? Where you are that's another issues uh ... sorta. :)

It seems that Prongs are frowned upon , where you are but E-Collar's are not??? That's kinda ... odd???

I use the SLL 99% of the time by choice and "necessity." WIth Rescues Work, they will only let use a SSL. And they will caution you that, "this dog Pull's!" ANd 9 times out 10 they do ... for most people but not ... if you understand dog's and how to properly use a SLL. I tend to thing the SLL is more of an Art than a Science??

I have had only three "Hard Core," I don't wanna case's?? Where perhaps a Prong would have been more effective quickly?? And ironically enough all Bully's! A seriously Big/Hugh Headed APBT/Cross. That was having none of it ... I does what I want, when I wants!!

He tried to pull like a fright train! FIne then see where that get's you?? He gave that up and then went to biting, the leash another fail for him. And then flipping and spinning ... another fail for him.

Finally after he was done with his crap?? I had spent about fifteen minutes just getting him to move forward and that is a long time for me, to just for walking??? And we did finally move forward ... LOL he was not??? About three steps forward and he would dart, "Hard in front of me, from left to right, WTH??? I never was able to solve that one as I was just helping out an owner ... that did not care?? He said he had tow more dog's just like him and they do the same thing?? Most likely he does leash any of them and has no control of them ... fortunately ... he did not leave me.

And another hmm Boxer/APBT?? Backyard dog for five years at the time. My neighbors and I volunteered to walk her ... Yeah ... she was fine for about five feet, and she started to tug and I corrected her with a slight tug sideways?? And she shut down hard!! A hard core, "Plopper Downer!"

Straight to the ground and she was not gonna move!! It took about 30 minutes to get her from directly in front of her home to half to the neighbor's house ANd the house's her are close!! So now I know. The next day we load her in the car to go to the Vet. And the same behaviour ...away from home on a leash?? Soo ... I'll ploy down?? The staff of course use those really narrow SLL's. ANd while they are fine for most dog's ... they would not work with Bree?? So I intervened. I'll take her in the room and out. And now off familiar ground ... there was no one to trust ...save for me?? It went fine we checked out and again not on home turf?? SLL in hand we went for a walk and she did great!!

If you'd have seen her ... she'd have given the impression of a well trained dog that walks on leash ... all the time!! Just getting her off "Home Turf," made all the difference ... who knew???

And there was Stewie, my first Boxer/APBT rescue 4 months ... he was excellent on leash! And did not really need one?? As he would like to demonstrate at worst of time's?? If we came under thread by other dog's on a walk. Stewie could chuck his collar at will??? And I would he left with a collar and leash and no dog?? But it was all good as he would not leave my side under duress ... he just did not like that crap on him??

I never did figure out he did that ... but Martindale Collar's are designed to prevent that! Martindale's are not "Training Collar's," despite what folks seem to be belive but hey if it works for them .. it's all good!

And finally keeping it both current and on topic, we come to Bella! My current APBT/Boxer! And the first dog I have used ... "properly," a Prong Collar on! And it worked just fine! I used the SLL for the most part and walk her with that daily. But she does want to forge ahead a bit on the SLL, it's annoying and we are still working on it.

But with the "Prong Collar," she does not that. But "my" issue with the "Prong Collar," is they are a PIA to fit, and to take on and take off?? It's annoying and without a D clip to there regular, they can "pop off!"

So day in day out a typical prong collar can be a PIA?? But because, "Prong Collar's," are illegal in some part's of the World ... people have found other means, Sealth Prong's. There were other types' out but these seem to be thing now??

Keeper Collar's, seem to be the thing now and they do seem to have an advantage even if you don't need to "Hide," a Prong Collar ie they fit with a buckle no clipping and unc,, over a "real Prong," collar even where you don't need to hide them. No un clipping and re clipping prong's to fit them required! :)

Pretty cool actually but not cheap?? I'll have to see if Bella is still enough of a PIA on walks to make it worth it?? It's the last 5% or so where she get's ... annoying?? :)

And with additional information here ... I do have a few suggestions that pretty much require no special tools at all, well Ok a "Pet Convincer," perhaps? Just a slightly different approach. But you know somehow we got off on "Prong,Prong,Prong?? So ....
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Update: read the comments! I know the list of banned tools in my area is bizarre. The ecollars get a pass under the by law because they can be used with invisible fences (lots of farms around). I found out that I’m still able to special order a prong collar however there’s no one to show me how to properly use it in the area. And these lurches I was struggling with are sudden and with such force I think he has the potential to really hurt himself.
I’ve had a consult with someone who trains personal protection dogs currently but used to train police dogs. As well as a consult with a specialist who deals with the ecollar. So far so good, they had some helpful tips about timing for corrections (just like With a slip lead correct as they are walking ahead) and asked me to use a martingale or my slip lead when we’re going to an exciting area. Neither one of them wanted me to stop rewarding with treats either as it is a very effective tool with Felix- but they showed me how to rely on them less. Both mentioned that a lot of this is his lack of impulse control and that it’s a puppy problem.
So far so good. He hates the little zaps (low setting) so much that even the vibrate setting is enough of a correction. I purchased a nylon slip thing that works like the slip lead but attaches to a regular leash as I need to use a harness when we travel in the car to secure him.
I’m having a hard time deciding which I’m to hire...
 

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Update: read the comments! I know the list of banned tools in my area is bizarre. The ecollars get a pass under the by law because they can be used with invisible fences (lots of farms around). I found out that I’m still able to special order a prong collar however there’s no one to show me how to properly use it in the area. And these lurches I was struggling with are sudden and with such force I think he has the potential to really hurt himself.
I’ve had a consult with someone who trains personal protection dogs currently but used to train police dogs. As well as a consult with a specialist who deals with the ecollar. So far so good, they had some helpful tips about timing for corrections (just like With a slip lead correct as they are walking ahead) and asked me to use a martingale or my slip lead when we’re going to an exciting area. Neither one of them wanted me to stop rewarding with treats either as it is a very effective tool with Felix- but they showed me how to rely on them less. Both mentioned that a lot of this is his lack of impulse control and that it’s a puppy problem.
So far so good. He hates the little zaps (low setting) so much that even the vibrate setting is enough of a correction. I purchased a nylon slip thing that works like the slip lead but attaches to a regular leash as I need to use a harness when we travel in the car to secure him.
I’m having a hard time deciding which I’m to hire...
Nice. Sounds like things are going well. I actually agree with the treats, if thats what he is motivated for you, use it as tool. Its just knowing when and how much. I pretty much trained my guy with his meals. He has no toy motivation. My Golden I trained with just a tennis ball. All dogs are different, but if you can find what motivates them it makes training that much easier.
 

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The harness, has nothing to do with a (Training collar??) You can use both or either ... to walk him once he is trained that is. :)

I had a bunch of tab's open and "lost" some stuff?? I meant to post the link to "Keeper Collar's. So here it is if I missed it.:
https://www.keepercollars.com/collar-styles

At seventy some odd bucks?? I consider them fairly expensive?? But day in day out regardless if one "need's," to hide a "Prong Collar??" A "Keeper Collar," is the "real thing," and is a much simpler process to fit. :)

And the "Martingale Collar??" LOL well as it happen's ... I just one bought one for Bella today! It is my first Martingale and Bella's first trip into a Big Box store! And side note here, as I am not that great at playing well other's myself.

It was a lot of stress for Bella! She was shaking and trembling and clearly ... out of her comfort zone!! And from me ... she got ... "Nothing," no insurance that it was, OK??" No "good girl," and most certainly not "Treat's," to "distract her and help and help her "cope," with the "Stress??" And after 20 minutes or so ... she got over it! No ... reassure or "treats," required! But I'm not big distration's myself ... just saying.

So yes she was obviously "uncomfortable," for a little bit?? And I did not reassure, her that ... "it was gonna be OK??" I did not use treat's as a "Distraction??" I used ... "Deal with it Dog!" And in less than twenty minutes or so ... she had! No treat's, owner input or Distractions required, ie "deal with it Dog!. And in less than 15 minutes ... The "trembling," was gone! And she was, "Just Fine!" That was "today," Real World, Real Dog and not a hand picked "Prima Donna Puppy," as I use to say on Germanshepardfourm. :)

Using "treat's," is fairly new to me?? But I use "treats," only for shaping and luring Behaviours. Not as "Distractions??"

Well ... I got more (of course) but I wanted to get this part in. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Just checked in on the keeper collar that chip posted and it confirmed my suspicions about the prong collar having the potential to cause injury with sudden lurches- which is the only area I struggle with. Right there on the website.
That being said if he doesn’t stop this behaviour in a few months (I’ll allow some forgiveness in time as training takes time to stick) I may consider the keeper collar as it leaves a gap to protect the trachea... I have purchased literally every other training tool I can though, and these two trainers I’ve had consultations with are extremely competent.
I have noticed much better impulse control with the ecollar and slip lead combination though. When Felix decides that he will go for a stick he no longer just lurches, he waits until we’re within the length of the leash, and he doesn’t dart off with it when he gets it.
I think part of the problem is that I have to travel to places where I can let him off leash- and if I could give him off leash time THEN a walk he might have most of the zoomies out of his system (tip from a trainer I had years ago). It makes the places where he can go off leash (the fenced in trails/“dog park”) so much more exciting. The stores are self explanatory because the staff fusses over him and gives him plenty of treats. We have some hardware stores I take him shopping with me and he’s very well mannered around these places (no treats, scarcely any other dogs, no toys or anything exciting for him). Just a thought.
I should be a pro at this by now. Once this dog is trained I’m opening up a doggy school (kidding!).
 
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