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Discussion Starter #1
Well someone from spain posted on the french forum i'm on saying he also had "bobtail boxers" so i did a quick search and they exist 8O  Some kind of mix they did with a corgi originally- that means they are born with a short tail. What will they mess about with next :roll:  If anyone's interested google 'bobtail boxers' you'll be surprised. Here's an example bobtail boxers
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

Hi, I was offered a white bobtail boxer by a breeder in Perth (Scotland) before getting Clay last October, so looks like Bobtails are in UK now too.
Jules
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

I wonder if they are a recognized pedigree breed :? I shouldn't have thought so. And i thought Corgi's were bad tempered dogs?  I hope they haven't passed that gene on 8O (I'm going to get criticized for my stereotyping of corgi's:wink: )
I'd choose a boxer with a tail every time over a "bobtail". At least you know what you're getting - ie - a REAL boxer. In fact chances are my next boxer will have a tail and be proud of it too :D
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

As we say here in Texas . . . That ain't right!
Those dogs in the second link don't look like boxers at all! 8O
What is wrong with people? :roll:
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

You can sure see the Corgi in them!!!!  It just looks lind of weird....Corgi's as I recall have no tail at all it is smooth to the skin and they just have a puff of hair....Very strange...I have never heard of the Bobtail Boxer....You crazy Euro's  :lol:  :lol:   :lol: (J/K)  Voltaire LOOKS like a real boxer....the smushy face manly boxer and these......I just dont know about these little things :)
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

The bobtails were developed in the UK by longtime Boxer breeder and mammalian geneticist Dr. Bruce Cattanach, in anticipation of the tail docking ban.  They are not a new breed; after the original cross, all of the descendants (if bred) were bred back to pure Boxers.  The first cross was done 15 years ago, with the knowledge and approval of the Kennel Club.  Breeding and placement of the first several generations were tightly controlled; the fourth generation crosses were able to receive KC registration as Boxers, but it was several generations later that the bobtails were released to the fancy at large.  The photos in that second link are the first generation puppies - 1/2 Boxer, 1/2 Corgi - so it's not surprising that they look very Corgi-ish. :)  

The bobtails are now on their eighth or ninth generation (depending on location) and I doubt anyone could pick one from a lineup of Boxers.

There is more about the whole bobtail project on Dr. Cattanach's site - http://www.steynmere.com/GENETICS.html
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

I agree Ginger..thats just plain sad
I think the chapter names in the Steynmere's read says it all..." Genetics can be FUN"...YUCK..what's next?? "CLONING can be FUN" also?? I say..don't mess with mother nature.....sheesh
( Btw..genetic research for breeding OUT disease I find acceptable..but messing with the breed to get a new "look"..wrong, wrong, wrong!!)
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

the boxers in the first link are gorgeous!!
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

It wasn't breeding to get a new look; it was breeding to maintain a centuries-old look that animal rights fanatics were attempting (and have succeeded) in taking away; it was breeding to maintain a tail that was less likely to suffer the damage and breakage that is often seen in long Boxer tails.  

It's perfectly fine to not agree with the bobtail crosses - many don't - but it's important not to ascribe motivations that simply weren't there.  This was a well-planned, well-regulated experimental breeding to determine the possibility of isolating a single gene (the bobtail) from one breed in another breed.  Had it not worked - had the Corgi traits carried on over the generations, or resurfaced in bobtail x bobtail crosses, or had new health problems showed up from the Corgi side of the pedigree - those dogs would never have made it into the larger Boxer gene pool.

And genetics *can* be fun, if it's an area that interests you.  Even something as simple as breeding a fawn to a brindle and seeing how accurately you predict the percentage of fawn puppies, or of breeding two flashies and seeing how close to the expected ratio of plain to flashy to white, is fun to those interested in genetics, statistical probabilities, etc.  One of the most 'fun' litters in that sense for me was one of my stud dog's, which was exactly as you'd expect in every way.  Two flashy brindles bred together produced four puppies - all brindles; two male, two female; one plain, two flashy, one white.  It doesn't get more textbook than that - and yes, it was fun, for me, to see it turn out that way.  Even more fun is to see the traits those puppies carry genetically from both parents - and from their other ancestors.  One of my girls now is a daughter of that dog (different litter), and while she is very like her father, both physically and behaviorally, there are a lot of times she's incredibly like her grandmother.  That's fun, too, to see the dogs I've lost living on in their descendants.

As far as not messing with Mother Nature - you really can't say that and be a Boxer fan.  There are few dogs that are farther removed from what Nature would have than the Boxer! :)
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

That is just wrong. Mutating a breed just to get around a tail docking ban and personal preference.
I think intentional crossbreeding should be illegal and banned...IMO thats worse than docking tails.
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

If you're opposed to, as you put it, "mutating" a breed, you really shouldn't have Boxers.  They are very "mutated" from the natural dog; square bodies, underbites, shortened muzzles, drop ears, round eyes are all mutations purposely fostered in the breed by humans for functional reasons which are mostly entirely absent today.  What is the difference between crossing with the English Bulldog 70 years ago and crossing with the Corgi 15 years ago?  Both were done on a limited basis, for a specific purpose, and bred back to the Boxer breed for long-term retention of the traits gained.
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

I think Newcastle has it right.  All domesticated dogs have been "mutated" to get a desired trait, a lot of times, that is a certain look.  I don't remember reading anything about packs of wild Boxers roaming the forest looking for bully stick trees.
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

48Dodge\";p=\"101645 said:
I think Newcastle has it right.  All domesticated dogs have been "mutated" to get a desired trait, a lot of times, that is a certain look.  I don't remember reading anything about packs of wild Boxers roaming the forest looking for bully stick trees.

LOL!!! Good point!!! :lol:  seriously though, i agree with Newcastle on this one.
 
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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

Gah!  yall beat me to it.  I was making a very nice reply agreeing with Newcastle and then I pushed the wrong button.  LOST IT ALL!   :(

Just was going to say that didn't all breeds of dogs pretty much start out as something else?  The boxer didn't start out as a boxer...   isn't the boxer an ancestor of the mastiff?

I think genetics is a very confusing thing.  I wouldn't even know how to understand it.  

I will say that 15 years ago when the first corgi and boxer puppies were produced they looked VERY odd   :-t

BUT now I couldn't tell a difference.  The ones that I saw in the link were gorgeous.  However though, what are the health issues with this, if there are any?  I know the ones that are already common in boxers, but were more created?
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

I guess what I meant was that when its done for the wrong reasons. Most breeds now are a result of crossbreeding I know and understand that. But there is a difference when its done for working/functional reasons as opposed to personal preference. I understand that this happens and sometimes its good and for the right reasons.
I mostly mean in regards to breeding for "designer breeds" and from reading this thread and looking at the links it seems that the "bobtail boxers" started because of the tail docking ban(maybe I'm wrong in saying that and mis-read something). I prefer them with their tails docked however if someone told me I couldn't dock the tail it wouldn't change my love for the breed or make me wanna change it. A boxer is a boxer with or without a tail.
There was a reason for them putting the ban into place and this just seemed like a "loop hole" to get around it.  They are born with a tail and we were the ones that decided that they shouldn't have one. I don't see the point in breeding a dog with another breed just so you can get rid of the tail "legally".
 

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Re: New breed "Bobtail Boxers" - they really exist

It wasn't the only reason but there are many long-term breeders with valuable breed knowledge who are no longer breeding because of the docking ban; there is no valid reason to ban tail docking, it is simply another step along the AR path to "total animal liberation".  (In fact the original motivation was not so much to 'get around' a docking ban, but rather to not have to dock at all.)
 
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