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Discussion Starter #1
Let start by saying I never crate trained Isis.  Since she was 3 months, I always thought she relieved herself often.  The vet did not find anything wrong with her, and I chalked up to that she's just a puppy.  Since her energy levels are so high, she does drink a lot of water.  For this reason, I kept her wee wee pad down until about 3 weeks ago.  Since she's 10 months now, I thought she would hold it longer, but I guess I'm wrong!

Here's my routine with her.......

5:00am:  Take her out to and she does her business (both pee and poop)
5:30am:  I feed her 1 cup dry (holistic food), and 2 tea spoon scoops of plain oatmeal
7:00am:  Take her for a half walk and she does her business again (both pee and poop)

I leave my house for work and come home by 4:30pm.  As soon as I open the door, I find poop on the floor and pee on my rug :(

5:00pm   Take her out to and she does her business (both pee and poop)
5:30pm   I feed her 2 cups dry (holistic food), and 1 tea spoon scoop of plain oatmeal.
7:00pm   Take her for a half walk and she does her business again (both pee and poop)
9:00pm   Take her out one more time and she's pee's.

Where am I going wrong here?  When I had my St. Bernard, he was never crate trained, and @ 5 months he started holding it all day long until I came home.  I guess I got lucky with him.  I don't have anyone to walk her @ lunch time, and I know if I try to crate her, she will go insane being locked up for 8 hours.  I kid you not when I say she is a huge giagantic ball of energy.  

I am going to the Vet sunday to check her again and make sure she doesn't have a weak bladder, or god forbid something else.

Sorry for the war and peace post, but I need advice  :roll:

Thanks!

Rob
 

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My Tango is not crated.  We live in an apartment, so my b/f made something up for the balcony.  When the door is open, he goes outside, no problem.  When the door is closed, he hasn't learned to tell us he wants out, and, when we leave him for long periods during the day, he also pees and poops in the house instead of going outside (we leave the door open).

Sometimes I wonder if they are mad at us for leaving and that's why they do it? But, from 7:00am - 5:00pm is an awful long time for a 5 month old to hold it still, I would imagine.  That's 10 hours.   Have you tried putting the puppy pads back down?  Wonder if she would go on them again, if needed?
 

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IMO, i would get rid of the wee wee pad.they don't really realize that is ok to go on the pad, they think it is ok to go in the house. i would toss that and treat it as if you were potty training a new pup.take her out at regularly scheduled intervals,and when she does  #1 or #2 outside praise her.if you catch her going in the house tell her no and take her outside.that is just IMO though. it is what worked for me. good luck!! :roll:
 

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Is there a way you can hire a dog walking service to come during the day? You would be surprised how inexpensive they can be.
 

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At 10 mos. she should be able to hold it. That is the almost the same schedule I am on and Lucy was able to hold it. I agree with getting rid of the pad. I think she may think it is ok to go in the house. However, I applaud that she is so well behaved that you can leave her uncrated without any destruction. We are going out of town in June and I really wanted Lucy to be out of her crate by then so I have been letting her out in 30 min. increments and slowly increasing. Well, she made it to 2 hours then ate the window sill. I think she may be in the crate until she is five :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
However, I applaud that she is so well behaved that you can leave her uncrated without any destruction.

Skylar.....don't applause to quickly.  I wish I would have crate trained when I first got her.  She destroyed my rug, ripped up the rug on my stairs, ate the wall, ate the side of the couch to the bone.  Everyday I was coming home to a new mass of destruction.  Yet, I felt so bad to crate her, and kept posiitive thoughts that it will get better.  She's passed the descrutive phase, but I just can't get her to stop peeing and pooping during the day.  I have 1.3 yr old pit mix, and he holds it all day with no issues.  I wonder if she doesn't hold it because I never asked her too?????

Rob
 

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i would think its def that...shes never had to hold it...and the pee pads make it ok to go in the house...we still crate Isis at times...if we are gone long long periods and she lays in her crate open when we are home..its got 3 body pillows in it and is infront of the window....we never used it as punishment so she doenst mind it at all..and she had a very very bad past bfore we got her 2 yrs ago...
4 yrs of being locked in a concrete cage NEVER EVER  let out didnt even know what grass was...crates are NOT a bad thing..its all in how YOU handle it...treats,toys etc
 

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I agree, the way they were trained when they were young is key. I crate trained my "cubby" since day 1. I rarely used it for punishments, and today, at 6 months, she loves her crate, its her bed basically.

I don't think cubby would do that great by herself for 8 odd hours. She has never chewed anything up but her toys but that is a long time for a mischievious dog to be alone. I have tried to leave her for 30-60 minutes with success but I just don't want to see my furniture get ruined...
 

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Definitely go back to basics...Get rid of the pee pads, that's sending a mixed message....It isn't uncommon for dogs to backslide, but generally it's earlier than 10 months....If after you have had her checked out at the vet and she's fine, then you will know that you just need to work more with her to get her to learn...That is a long stretch for her to go with out being able to relieve herself, but I bet if she was crated it probably wouldn't happen...Generally dogs dont like to soil their "bed"
 

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I never crate trained Oggie and hes about the same age as Isis.  He is not left alone very long very often, but if I am gone for 6 to 8 hours he will go on the floor.  Other than that he is very well behaved so I'm not too upset about it, but I do think crating teaches them to hold it.  If I was locked in a room I could probably hold it for 8 hours too but boy that sounds uncomfortable, so I really don't expect him to do the same!
 

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I'm in the minority but I think many people abuse the crates.  You can't tell me a dog being crated all day isn't uncomfortable.  Theres definitely many ways to use a crate for training, and I agree if Isis is misbehaving, crating may be the way to go.  But I've had really good results with my dog without the crate, I think a lot of it has to do with me working from home and training him on acceptable behavior.  I also leave him in a safe area of the house.  Sure he chewed a few things when he was just starting out but he's been very good otherwise.  He will go on the floor if I'm gone 6 hours or so.  Otherwise no accidents, and that time he can hold it continues to increase.  Trust is earned.  Its true some boxers can not be trusted alone.  But I'd personally rather my dog chew a few things than be locked up in a cage all the time. I think if you have a safe area/garage for a dog, crating is unecessary. I think too many people use the crate for their own benefit, not for the dog.
 

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My breeder paper trained Delila and it was hard to break her from going in the house, the bell training worked for us. Make sure you praise her and treat her. I used to act like a clown and jump up and down. My neighbors thought I was nuts. Another thing that helps is catching her in the act, if you see the puppy starting to go say No, in a calm manner or make a noise to distract her. Take her to the same spot and when she goes praise praise praise. if she has an accident clean it up and take the soiled papers out to her pp spot. Also make sure you clean the spot well, I use natures miracle, it neutralizes the scent so they don't return to the same spot to pp or poop. Give the puppy time I am sure she will get the hang of it. Hope this helps.
 

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[b:kiia0aid]Msdiamonddawg, when you said that you wondered if your boxer was mad at you
 
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