Boxer Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
482 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We've been working on Obedience Training on a local canine school for about 8 weeks now.
This week was the first time the class included other dogs in it, with a lot of distractions. You can imagine how it went... total fail!

Stanley gets really excited with the other dogs and don't focus on me and my commands, therefore getting constant choke collar corrections that didn't seem to do the trick.
The trainer told me I need to work on my corrections - apparently I'm not doing it as hard as I'm supposed to. Now I've been practicing a lot at home with very hard collar corrections, but the response I'm getting is terrible! He starts jumping and attacking me, and still doesn't follow my command.
I give enough positive reinforcement when the commands are followed properly, never with treats.

Any ideas of what I could be possibly doing wrong? Suggestions on how to deal with the aggressiveness?
Is it just a matter of time and more training?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,438 Posts
Is Stanley being aggressive, or is it possible that he thinks it's some sort of play? Probably a silly question, but boxers often get spurred on by things and end up jumping like it's all good fun. I've never used a choke collar so unfortunately can't offer any advice on that. When he jumps up I'd either ignore him, or I'd try to body block and stare him down to let him know you're in charge and mean business.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,935 Posts
I find that with Bosley when you give him a harsher correction he's more likely to fight you on it (this is just my experience with my own dog). I find that waiting until he realizes that you aren't doing anything (going anywhere, moving etc) or ignoring the jumping altogether is more helpful than trying to give him a harder correction with the choke collar. Also, you might want to watch how hard you are correcting him because the choke collar can actually cause damage to their esophagus if used incorrectly... :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,056 Posts
Are you using the correctional prong collar? There is a study that actually showed the prong causes the least damage or injury than the flat correctional collar as well as the harness. And it is the most effective when used correctly.
Gracie used to turn on me too. She would attack me and the leash and pull and shake. That was then when I used the flat no slip collar. Now I use the prong collar to train her. I start her off with a quick snap with a command like sit, walk a few steps, snap/sit, then a down, and so on...even before she does ANYTHING that needs a correction like bad behavior. This gets her brain into the working zone.
Stanley is still young and it could be that he is just being playful which borders into a semi aggressive play mode. You can correct very firmly just before you see him go into it. Tell him, "Stanley, NO!" Use his name to get his attention, then a big loud NO!!! He has to understand No for starters. And it's just a simple NO. They can tell by the tone of our voices so be tough, Mom. I had to work a lot on my timing and watch for any body language. Then I beat her to it and she almost gets startled and really learned to listen closely to me. Gosh, we work on this everyday. It's funny how people we encounter on our walks remark on how obedient and well trained Gracie is. I laugh because i know how my monster could be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
The boxer doesn't respond well to over correction or very harsh corrections. BosleysMom's advice about keeping moving forward after correction helps a lot and getgracie is right about the martingale collar. I found the martingale required more force then compared to others. I myself have never used the prong as I am a big softie and Nemo alway's gives me that "what did I do Daddy?" look. Honestly it sounds like this pup needs to be wolfed a few times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,456 Posts
It's funny how people we encounter on our walks remark on how obedient and well trained Gracie is. I laugh because i know how my monster could be.
I get this comment ALL THE TIME too and I just wish I had a video of Aspen in action that I could show people because she's really a horrible monster deep down inside! If I can make Aspen behave, there's hope for any dog!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
What do you mean by with „very hard collar corrections“, do you yank him across the yard, can you please elaborate on this? How long is the training session?

There is no need for any form of brutal force, especially at that age. Some boxers are more stubborn than others, some are very sensitive.

You have been training 8 weeks, he is four moths old. It is perfectly normal that he is more interested in other dogs at the age, to expect him to follow your commands perfectly after 8 weeks of training is just asking too much. There is nothing wrong with a “total fail” at that age.

Be very careful that your expectations do not turn into frustration when you train with him. Frustration can very easily turn into aggression. Stanley could be reacting to your emotions and if you are not careful you could have serious problems later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
I agree, your puppy is far too young for choke chain corrections (or any physical corrections, actually). Honestly, if it were me, I'd be finding a different class. It's totally normal for him to be distracted by other dogs, especially if he doesn't spend a lot of time with them outside of class. Instead of punishing him for being a normal Boxer puppy, teach him what you want him to do instead, and manage the situation so that he doesn't have a chance to get it wrong. (Make sure he has a play session just before class so some of his excess energy is burned off. If he gets out of control when other dogs get nearby, move him away from the other dogs. Use super-duper-yummy treats only when he's in class and other dogs are around, and give them to him even if he's not paying attention to you ("open bar" training). Teach him "attention/watch me" in every environment you can think of; the better he knows it everywhere else, the faster he'll pick it up in a distracting environment.)

Some articles on training with distractions:
ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Attention
ClickerSolutions Training Treasures -- Teaching "Leave It" with Live Things
ClickerSolutions Training Treasures -- Desensitizing to Squirrels
ClickerSolutions Training Treasures -- Stopping Negative Behavior Positively
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
We've been working on Obedience Training on a local canine school for about 8 weeks now.
This week was the first time the class included other dogs in it, with a lot of distractions. You can imagine how it went... total fail!

Stanley gets really excited with the other dogs and don't focus on me and my commands, therefore getting constant choke collar corrections that didn't seem to do the trick.
The trainer told me I need to work on my corrections - apparently I'm not doing it as hard as I'm supposed to. Now I've been practicing a lot at home with very hard collar corrections, but the response I'm getting is terrible! He starts jumping and attacking me, and still doesn't follow my command.
I give enough positive reinforcement when the commands are followed properly, never with treats.

Any ideas of what I could be possibly doing wrong? Suggestions on how to deal with the aggressiveness?
Is it just a matter of time and more training?

hahaha i have to laugh .. and i guess i CAN laugh now . cause about a year and a half ago i was having the same issue. Actually now when i think of it even now .. if i go to correct her for something (offleash) .. she thinks its a game and she gets all revved up.. but onleash now shes very good .. i aggree with the comments, while im no expert , i would think thats too young for check chain type corrections.. but i think the principal behind the "harder" corrections .. is to startle or "snap" her out of her tantrum or alike and basically to say "hey .. cut it out" ..

my little girl did NOT repsond to corrections AT all .. in generall. she would chuck bigger tantrums and jump at me and bite me and basically look like she was attacking me ..

after hiding in the bedroom until she calmed down LOL .. i realised after a while shes NOT attacking me .. shes being a silly boisterous boxer and im letting her get away with it .. i have to be stronger (not harsher) .. and more firm .. let her chuck her tantrums but im going to ignore it and after a while she got the hint that she gets NO reaction from me when she behaves like that . Im talking 20mins worth of her carrying on.. i learnt to hold my cool .

On walks same thing .. I would wear a garden glove cause she would get sooo mouthy and didnt like where we were going and that "I" was leading .. she would look like a monster in teh street.. a little embarassing cause people were looking.. i was draggin her along hahaha. THen i learnt to stop .. when she finished her trantrum we continue walking .. and change directions alot so she doesnt get a chance to think or complain cause she was too busy wondering .. "oh where are we going now"

I think over time she just grew out of that phase at the same time with me being more persistant and firm with her.


im sorry this is probably not helpful. but keep going .. its a long journey and wont be an overnite success .. i say enjoy it all .. cause one day when the whiskers are grey and the movements are much slower .. you will remember back to this day .. i ALWAYS say to our 14yo boxer x "you used to be a little monkey once upon a time" hehe shes soo cute.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
482 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
What do you mean by with „very hard collar corrections“, do you yank him across the yard, can you please elaborate on this? How long is the training session?
The corrections we were taught in school are basically a quick yank on the chain, so it chokes him then collar is released (lose on his neck).
When I do it normally, I kinda give him little 'tugs' because when he is under too much distraction, he is always on the end of my leash chocking - he doesn't seem to care. She says that's wrong, you're not suppose to tug - you gotta make sure collar is lose, so you can yank... I can't figure out how that can be possible, but when she got him on the leash, he immediately behaved in the proper manner - making me look bad in front of class!

I asked the trainer for a prong collar, as he is getting bigger and stronger, easily pulling me and messing with my balance (I'm kinda clumpsy) :) She told me to wait and practice on the corrections, because I can't yank the prong collar as I do with the choke chain, so I think she wants me to be ready for the prong collar.


The 1st classes were 1 dog at a time, so those would last max 10 minutes.
Practicing at home doesn't take any longer than that as well. Now, the last class with many dogs were 45, him and I were completely drained.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
4 months to 5 months is when they start acting nuts trying to affirm their pack status. I would recommend you work on his manners in an environment with no other dogs or people are present like others have suggested. With my pup at that age he was challenging everyone and everything even when company came over he would challenge my guests and even my daughter with the same type of behaviour but if there other dogs present he could act like this just because he wants to play and you won't allow it. If he acts like this with no distractions I would definitely wolf him despite what others have said giving treats for bad behaviour will just amplify the situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
482 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I agree, your puppy is far too young for choke chain corrections (or any physical corrections, actually). Honestly, if it were me, I'd be finding a different class. It's totally normal for him to be distracted by other dogs, especially if he doesn't spend a lot of time with them outside of class. Instead of punishing him for being a normal Boxer puppy, teach him what you want him to do instead, and manage the situation so that he doesn't have a chance to get it wrong. (Make sure he has a play session just before class so some of his excess energy is burned off. If he gets out of control when other dogs get nearby, move him away from the other dogs. Use super-duper-yummy treats only when he's in class and other dogs are around, and give them to him even if he's not paying attention to you ("open bar" training). Teach him "attention/watch me" in every environment you can think of; the better he knows it everywhere else, the faster he'll pick it up in a distracting environment.)

Some articles on training with distractions:
ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Attention
ClickerSolutions Training Treasures -- Teaching "Leave It" with Live Things
ClickerSolutions Training Treasures -- Desensitizing to Squirrels
ClickerSolutions Training Treasures -- Stopping Negative Behavior Positively
We started training him early because I thought 'introducing the concept of OBEDIENCE' was a good idea.
The hardest thing for me is to not get frustrated when he doesn't excel simply for being a puppy. He has a lot of potential, I know he can do it - so when he misbehaves I get frustrated.

We've paid a lot of money for this training, so I am trying to absorb the most of it. I agree last week 'socialization' class was a little too much for him, which explains the bad behavior, but if I expose him constantly it should get better, right?

I almost feel like the training classes are more for me, than him most of the time!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
482 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
4 months to 5 months is when they start acting nuts trying to affirm their pack status. I would recommend you work on his manners in an environment with no other dogs or people are present like others have suggested. With my pup at that age he was challenging everyone and everything even when company came over he would challenge my guests and even my daughter with the same type of behaviour but if there other dogs present he could act like this just because he wants to play and you won't allow it. If he acts like this with no distractions I would definitely wolf him despite what others have said giving treats for bad behaviour will just amplify the situation.
At home he does fine, even when we have company he is not bad at all. Obviously, he does what every puppy is supposed to do (plays, jumps, tries to steal shoes to chew on) but nothing that would concern me.

I keep getting different opinions about when/how to start exposing him to other dogs/people, so it's hard to know the right thing to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,935 Posts


I keep getting different opinions about when/how to start exposing him to other dogs/people, so it's hard to know the right thing to do.
As long as he has all his shots I would take him everywhere. Somewhere new atleast once a week. Not too much that you overwhelm him but enough that he would recognize the situation afterwards. Always try to stay positive when socializing him and things will work out :)

I used to take Bosley all over the place; one day I would walk him on a quite path not too many distractions but big trees, the winding path, small animals. Then the next I would walk him on a busy street with tons of stuff going on; people, other dogs, cars etc. Both environments I gave the same praise for good behaviour ( being calm, walking nicely on his leash)and stayed calm. If he decided that he was usure of something I didn't change my demeanor or anything, just kept walking and ignoring the bad behaviour. If you end up having a silly puppy trying to pull you the other way or jumping or what have you, you may look ridiculous to someone watching but keep at it and just ignore. Keep walking, head up and pretend like he is being good. :chair:Easier said than done but patience and consistency are key. He will eventually pick up on the fact that he is getting nowhere being bad so he may as well join you...:)

You said so yourself, he is smart so he will learn eventually. You just have to wait out the puppy stage lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
:cheers:You a using punishment on a puppy... And the trainer is allowing this?:cry_baby: :chair:

Most likely it's a play behavior... Seek advice from your trainer... If they encourage punishment....or negative reinforcement find a new trainer... I agree to look at the clicker training articles. :):discuss:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
Also trash the choak and get a plain buckle or martingale..

FYI It will be slow at first but much better... Slower even cause of the rocky start... Change to new words for your commands to leave behind the negative connotations and associations.

I have a one year old boxer that is ready for her cd and is likely going to start trials and she has never had a physical correction as per your description during her training. She does get corrected don't take me wrong but she never had a correction in the true sence until well after six months when they are mature enough to handle it. Actually if you look up my old posts you can see a vid of her doing obedience training at three months in a packed provincial park... Quite happily too! Come sit down and wait I think are all there... Lead on but not attached to anything. Please don't get wrapped up in traditional methods :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
We started training him early because I thought 'introducing the concept of OBEDIENCE' was a good idea.


Training at a young age is an excellent idea. Choke chains at a young age is a horrible one. (Of course, IMO choke chains at any age is a less-than-great idea. They're completely unnecessary.)

The hardest thing for me is to not get frustrated when he doesn't excel simply for being a puppy. He has a lot of potential, I know he can do it - so when he misbehaves I get frustrated.
He probably picks up on that, too, which makes him frustrated and, since you're correcting him every time he does something that I'm guessing he's never been taught not to do, he's learning that you're unpredictable and untrustworthy.

Imagine you were walking along with your warden and they yelled at you, "FROODLEGOOKS!" What would you do? What if you stood there a second trying to figure out what they were talking about, and they slapped you? Alternatively, imagine you've been isolated from other people except your warden for a long time, and then a group of friendly people came into your room. You'd be excited to see someone to whom you could speak, but as soon as you tried to go over and talk to them, your warden punches you in the nose. (Imagine, too, that you've got the mental capacity of a two-year-old.)

What would you think of your warden? Would you trust them? Would you want to be around them? You would surely try your best to figure out what "FROODLEGOOKS" meant, but if you had no guidance and if every attempt was met by a slap, pretty soon you'd stop trying. You might try harder to get to the other people, to see if they could help you get away, but with each punch in the nose you might start to decide that it's the other people's fault that you keep getting punched, and then when the other people come around you'd try to scare them away, getting more and more aggressive about it as you kept getting punched. At the root of it all, you'd be working out of fear of getting slapped or punched.

We've paid a lot of money for this training, so I am trying to absorb the most of it. I agree last week 'socialization' class was a little too much for him, which explains the bad behavior, but if I expose him constantly it should get better, right?
If you expose him constantly and teach him that other dogs are not Bad Things, and behaving appropriately results in Good Things, yes, it should get better.

I almost feel like the training classes are more for me, than him most of the time!
They are. :) Training classes, first and foremost, should teach you how to teach your dog. The distraction training that is built into a group classes is a side-benefit, but not the primary purpose. Unfortunately, the class you're in is only teaching you how to make your puppy afraid of you.

(And please, please, don't ever "wolf" your puppy -- which I'm guessing means "alpha roll" him. The only thing it's good for is getting bitten. Wolves do *not* force other wolves onto their backs unless they're going in for the kill -- it's an extremely threatening move and will seriously damage your relationship with your puppy.)
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top