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Hello all, we have had a little boxer girl Eliza for almost two full weeks now. She is doing great. We love her to pieces and she is a lot of work! she is working on commands like sit, wait and spin and has them all three basically down pat. We will start a new command this weekend maybe. We are also working on bell training to let us know when she needs to go out. Housetraining is going fine, a few ups and downs but with three daughters an older dog and a puppy, i was expecting that! she is mostly good to go. And she is sleeping really well through the night. Everything seems to be going really well for us...as long as we are home. when we leave she turns into a different dog

When we leave we are rarely gone for more than an hour or two at a time. Rarely we have to leave her for three hours at a stretch. We have tried everything. We tried crating, she freaked out, she hurt her mouth biting the bars of the door, she moved the crate across the room. we tried her puppy pen where she sleeps, she is able to get out of it every time. We tried using baby gates to gate her in the kitchen, she was able to knock them down. We tried leaving her locked in my daughter's bedroom with just her chew toys and bed, she ripped her bed to shreds and threw stuffing all over the whole room.

Then when we get home she is exhausted, she can barely raise her head from her bed she is so exhausted. I have tried to take her with us for dropping off or quick errands, but I can't keep doing that. Summer is more flexible for us but once the school year starts we will have to be gone more consistently.

she will be ten weeks old tomorrow. Is this normal puppy separation? Will she grow out of this? any tips or advice for helping us help her? We walk her around the block before we leave. i have left bully sticks, toys, kongs with peanut butter. We are not gone for hours on end. I absolutely hate to leave her when i know that she is going to lose her mind once we walk out of the room. we can hear her crying and howling from the garage! It's awful.

our older dog Ezra acted like this when we tried crating him, but as soon as he was locked in a bedroom he was completely fine and we have never had a problem with him. He was two years old when we rescued him. They are getting along and I thought about gating her in our bathroom so she can have his presence nearby when we are gone, but I don't quite trust them together yet and it makes me nervous to have them in the same room together. If she were able to get over the gate then they would be trapped together in one room and I'm not ready for that yet!
 

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Here is my 2 cents start a schedule and keep with it.. even when you're at home utilize the crate. Feed, outside,play,crate and repeat. My guy had a consistent schedule he eventually just got use to the idea and just became part of his routine... he doesn't use the crate when we leave he has proved to be trustworthy but I still find him wanting to go there so we let him, kinda like a den for them safe and cozy I suspect... be vigilant in your schedule don't fall prey to the whimpers... also when you put puppy in the crate don't make a fuss set her in there close the door and walk away don't amp her up with your departure...


One more thing.. Although kongs are fairly safe I'd be wary of leaving toys or bones in her crate when you leave best to avoid a dog/puppy choking unattended.
 

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Agree with 4paws on this. I work from home but had a schedule where he would spend a certain amount of time in the crate each day. Even though I don't use it overnight he still goes in when I leave the house. There was a little bit of an initial barking, but would usually only last a few minutes. I also found a light bed sheet covering the back and sides seemed to make him feel a bit more secure. Now he spends about a 1/4 of the day in his crate on his own with the door open.

Also made sure he was pretty spent from playing/exercise before he went in when he was a puppy. Didn't really have the energy to object. lol
 

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We also crated from day 1. We had, still do have a routine. Puppy was put in his crate even when we were home. We had things that had to be done at home and when he wasn't with us he was in his crate. We never gave into a whimper and also utilize a thin blanket to cover his crate. He did always pull it in though. For his first two years he was put in the crate whenever we had to leave the house now not so much as he is trustworthy. He still sleeps in it at night. Mostly because we don't want him to lose his training there are nights here and there that he stays in my daughters room. We find that consistency with routine works, staying in his crate worked, he learned from day 1 it was ok to be alone and for the most part we only had a kong in his crate with him, and a large kong chew ring that we knew he couldn't destroy.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks all! we will try to use the crate while we are at home and see if we can help her get more used to it
 

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Our breeder recommended that we teach the "Yes" command right away. I think they are clueless about what us humans are asking. Anyway, I'd call the puppy's name, and once he/she showed up there was a little bit of chicken or high value treat. I'd call the name when I was in the kitchen, with access to the fridge and some chicken. When the puppy responded quickly to calling it's name, you would say "Yes" and then give the treat. Yes became a very important word later. When they go in the crate it's Yes.
 

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This was done several times a day, with no negative response if the puppy didn't show up. So "Yes" is really an exciting word that lets the puppy know you are so happy. It's connected with food for puppy. Later when they are doing a good recall, or learning the "leave it" command Yes is something they understand.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Okay, she seems to be calming down a bit. at least she is howling when we leave her but when we get home she is calm. Her blanket in the crate is always soaked, it smells so mild i dont' know if it is urine or sweat or saliva. She still has to be forced to enter the crate, but i am using chicken breast pieces for that. I will start with the YES command too, we kind of had started that but not that purposely yet
 

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OK well it seems like you're making progress ... so that's good. :)

And true confession, I've never Crate trained a dog or puppy. But if I did ... I would would make the rules of expected behaviour clear to the dog/puppy. That said ... I can't say where everyone else get's the "Yes" thing from but as far as I know Michael Ellis, is the Yes guy?? And as I understand it ... it's a "Marker" word for a dog doing the expected behaviour ... but it is not a "command??"

The command for going in the Crate without coercion is "Kennel Up." And when they do ... you'd say "Yes!" To let the dog/puppy know they performed the expected behaviour. I'd also lose the chicken in an effort to bribe her into the Crate ... dogs/puppies that under "Stress" won't take treats. Feed her in the Crate only ...put the food in the Crate say "Kennel Up" giver her 15 minutes, if she won't go in the Crate ... she does not eat that meal. Take the food up and try again at the next meal. I doubt ... she would be willing to skip more than three meals???

I'd start on a friday and I would expect by Sunday ... she would understand what "Kennel Up" means and "Yes" would be the "Marker" word for a job well done. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the input Chip. We didn't crate train our older dog and I actually don't care to much about crate training Eliza either. I just want her to have a safe space until I can trust her stay locked in the bedroom. Everyone says that crate training is the way to go, so I'm giving it a good go, but it's been so rough! Just as I thought she was calming down...today we left her for a couple of hours to do some errands around town. When we came home she was loose in the bedroom and had peed on my daughter's bed!!! She must have somehow popped the top of the crate up enough to loosen the door and escape/wiggle through. Somehow she got up onto my daughter's bed even though she hasn't been that adventurous so far. We went came home and she was back down on the floor waiting for us to open the door to the bedroom for her. ARRGGGHHHH I borrowed another crate from a friend that is bigger, so she shouldn't be able to reach the top of it...at least for a while. I will try the kennel up command, and i will try to have her in the crate while we are at home as well to help her get used to it. Giving her food in the crate might help, she is definitely super movitated to eat her meals, especially since we just switched her to a raw diet.
 

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Thanks for the input Chip. We didn't crate train our older dog and I actually don't care to much about crate training Eliza either. I just want her to have a safe space until I can trust her stay locked in the bedroom. Everyone says that crate training is the way to go, so I'm giving it a good go, but it's been so rough! Just as I thought she was calming down...today we left her for a couple of hours to do some errands around town. When we came home she was loose in the bedroom and had peed on my daughter's bed!!! She must have somehow popped the top of the crate up enough to loosen the door and escape/wiggle through. Somehow she got up onto my daughter's bed even though she hasn't been that adventurous so far. We went came home and she was back down on the floor waiting for us to open the door to the bedroom for her. ARRGGGHHHH I borrowed another crate from a friend that is bigger, so she shouldn't be able to reach the top of it...at least for a while. I will try the kennel up command, and i will try to have her in the crate while we are at home as well to help her get used to it. Giving her food in the crate might help, she is definitely super motivated to eat her meals, especially since we just switched her to a raw diet.
Arggghh indeed! OK ,so she acts like a tool in the Crate and she acts like a tool when she breaks out out of the Crate??? To state the obvious ... that's not good. :cry:

This is not how it's suppose to go. And while you did not sign up to become a "Dog Trainer" ... that seems to be where you are???

Give it this weekend and only feed her in the Crate, give her treats only in the Crate ... if there is no progress with that ... then girl or not ... you're gonna have to suck it up and go for "Plan B."

And :


Your not gonna like it ... and I would not want to do it but sometimes ... we don't have choices. If she is allowed to continue with this crap ... you will never be able to trust her outside the Crate. The goal I would think is that one day you won't "need to have to use the Crate??? Pro's pretty, do but pet people ... not so much?? In anycase if feeding and treats only in the Crate does not result in her choosing to settle in the Crate???

Then it's time for Plan B ... put her in the Crate, throw a blanket over it and if she does not chill out there, will be consequences! You can correct a dog for not settling down in the Crate by providing "Consequences" for poor choices. Make better choices dog or there will be Consequences!

You would use a "Bonker" to provide "consequences" for not settling in the Crate. Kennel up and yes ... if she will do that. Most likely that would be step one use "meals" to get at least that much done ... having to cram her in there is not a good approach,in my view??

Then throw a blanket over the Crate and wait ... if she acts out ... then "Correct" her in the Crate. Use a "Bonker" in this case it would be a bundle of sucksand youd throw it at the Crate! When you hear her make noise ... you throw the "Bonker" at the Crate!

What she will learn, is that if I stay "quiet in here" ... nothing bad happens??? You could say "No" and Bonker the Crate or say nothing and Bonker the Crate "Act of God" correction. What she will learn, is that if I stay quiet in here ... nothing bad happens??? If she went to a proper Board and Train ... she would be Corrected in the Crate for pulling this kinda crap. Pet owners put up with this kinda crap ... "Pro's" do not. Right now ... your laying the groundwork for your life together, if she gets away with this ... there are no limits to what comes next???

None of this ... should be necessary but sometimes it is. You have to work with the dog/puppy in front of you and sometimes you have to keep it real ... sorry. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Chip, we fed her breakfast in her "new" crate today. She went halfway in and stretched to reach her food :) While she was eating we kind of pushed her back legs in and she was fine with it. We definitely want to have a well trained dog when she is grown, so working towards that!! With commands she is amazing, 'sit' 'spin' 'down' 'wait' she has absolutely down pat. her housetraining is going really well. she is still waking up at night but only once and i think within another week she will be good to go there as well. it's just the leaving her thing! We will be out again this evening, so we will see how it goes!! I will probably try some daytime crate time today as well to get her in there more often
 

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You don't want to do, to much too, fast too soon. The primary issue you're dealing with is "Separation Anxiety" and the Crate ... is suppose to be a safe place but clearly at the moment it is not??

I'd go with feeding her in the Crate and "Kennel Up" at meal times. Not sure about the butt shoving at the end to get her completely in the Crate ... but whatever. Close the Crate at dinner time and if she wants out ... only allow her out when she is "Calm!"

That would be where the "marker word" Yes ... would come into play, the instant she stops whining or whatever ...say "Yes" and let her out! The rest of the time just throw treats in there and let her come and go as she pleases. Kennel Up and Yes ... only at meal times. The rest of the time ... just throw treats in the Crate at random and let her go in and out as she pleases.

If the in crate craziness continues, at some point you'r gonna have to "Correct" her for misbehaving in the Crate ... use a Bonker. The blanket it would make it easier because she won't associate the source of the "Correction" with you ... at of God. If I make a lot of noise in her ...bad things happen ... if I stay quite ... nothing bad happens???

At any rate ... that's how I'd proceed if I were Crate training a puppy and ran into your issue. But ... plan be ... Jeff Gellman is doing free 15 minute, Skype Sessions this year see the Menu on the left under home. :

https://www.facebook.com/Solid-K9-Training-140229622668254/?hc_ref=ARTid2ay_oysk9laD60_Tmssb29oUH7YwCy0w6OnK9Gfo12nr0N164A2YAs0t3MbnpY&fref=nf

And how did it go this weekend with her???
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So, we moved the newer bigger crate to the living room and out of my daughter's room. I am diffusing lavendar essential oil in the living room and we leave the radio on. She is able to move this crate across the living room. We are feeding all of her meals in the crate and that is fine. She cries and howls when we put her in and we can hear her from the garage as we leave, but she is quiet when we get home. Her towel is always completely soaked...with i don't know what, i'm guessing she is peeing in there. Her face is also quite wet, so maybe she is drooling as well. we will start with closing the door on her at feeding times and letting her out when she is quiet with the YES. Just plugging on . we have to leave her at least once a day, rarely for more than two hours at a time. She has to figure it out!! I did talk to her breeder and found out that her momma has SEVERE anxiety when they leave as well, so maybe it's a family trait!!
 

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So, we moved the newer bigger crate to the living room and out of my daughter's room. I am diffusing lavendar essential oil in the living room and we leave the radio on. She is able to move this crate across the living room. We are feeding all of her meals in the crate and that is fine. She cries and howls when we put her in and we can hear her from the garage as we leave, but she is quiet when we get home. Her towel is always completely soaked...with i don't know what, i'm guessing she is peeing in there. Her face is also quite wet, so maybe she is drooling as well. we will start with closing the door on her at feeding times and letting her out when she is quiet with the YES. Just plugging on . we have to leave her at least once a day, rarely for more than two hours at a time. She has to figure it out!! I did talk to her breeder and found out that her momma has SEVERE anxiety when they leave as well, so maybe it's a family trait!!
Well ... this news sucks! Avoiding crap like this ... is precisely why people go to "Breeders" ... they apparently know this and "Momma" should not be bred, not passing on traits like this is kinda the whole point of "Breeding" to better the breed.

This ... is clearly not the norm ... but it is what it is. Two hours is not that long ... we have had a rash of recent puppy arrivals and none have been like this??? So yeah ... you have a problem. Still it is what it is ... I doubt you're willing to give her back???

So you're just gonna have to out think her. And time is working against you, the longer a behaviour continues ... the harder it is to Stop.

All dog trainers that can solve dog ... puppy issues train "The Place Command" it trains calmness into a dog. See the link below, there is a link to Ruff Dogs Rescue ... and they have clips on training "Puppies" in "Place." If you can't find it, let me know and I can dig it out. :)

http://www.boxerforums.com/training/183298-fearful-anxious-flat-crazy-place-command.html

I'd start working on that ... but, I think ... you're just gonna have to "suck it up" and "Correct her in the Crate" with a "Bonker." A pair of heavy socks and just throw it hard at the side of the Crate ... when she acts up in the Crate. If done with vigor ... it should solve this issue, with one or two applications???

I'm not suggesting a "Prong or an E-Collar" for this ... but the concepct behind "correcting" a dog with fear, anixity issues can be found here.:
https://thegooddog.net/training-tips/shocking-and-pronging-fearful-dogs/

But ... maybe Kennel Up and Yes for quite ... will be good enough, start to work on "Place" also and maybe the behaviour will "Self-extinguish??? :confused:

But if it does not ... then your gonna have to correct her the Crate for misbehaving ... your kinda running out of options??
 

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You can bring your pup to the park every now and then to get it to socialize with other pups! the worse thing that can happen is for your dog to feel all alone when the isnt much of a choice. make up for it when youre back! haah spend some much needed time with your pup. shower it with some love!!!
 

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Hmm, well no updates from the OP in awhile??? Hope all is going well or better???

But since other topics were brought up ... this is not a typical puppy, if lots of Love and attention, actually "fixed" dogs?? There would be no need for "Pro's" that specialize in "Rehabbing Dogs???" Anyone can shower a dog with luv and attention?? But that won't fix issues?? Nor will "Obedience Training," a dog can Sit/Stay/Down and Recall, walk well on a loose leash or walk well off leash and still be a freaking tool!!

Been there done that ... it did not work out??? My Boxer experience lead me to believe that Luv and Obedience Training would solve issues??? My first Working Line GSD experience "proved" yeah not so much???

Stubble across a dog with "issues" and one will either rethink there approach to dog training or they can't adapt, .. they will put that dog down!! And the last thing you will want to do with an issue prone dog, is take them to a Dog Park??

Dogs understand ... Rules/Structure and Limitations! When those three things become "Crystal Clear" to them ... you can shower away with the Luv bit. And if one is dealing with a dog with serious issues?? The last place one would want to take them, is to freaking "Dog Park???" There are no rules and no limits at a "Dog Park!" You don't know, what kind of Dog or Owners are in a Dog Park?? But by and large one would be sure to find lot's of owners who's take is "My dogs issues are not my problem, they are your problem!"

Not a single one of the Pro's who's info I tend to share ... do "Dog Parks???" "IF" there dog getting attacked by some tools out of control dog ... it only adds to there dogs problems and another issue hey have to "fix."

And the assumption, that if a dog that does not associate with other dogs, will be uncontrollable around other dogs, is a myth! My Band Dawg, my Boxer and my issue prone, GSD never associated with unknown dogs.
And when forced by circumstances to do so, I had to wrangle home (three strays, inside our house!!They were heading towards the Hwy!! And when I did ... everyone got along just fine!

I roll hard ... an rest assured .. .no one would here would have had an issue with my dogs. "I don't know you, I don't know your dog?? You keep your distance, I'll keep mine ... "Thank You!" Is how we roll. I don't have the time or patience to put up with others owners, and there dogs crap behavior!!! If ... one is already having an issue, with there dog?? Go to a "Dog Park" and if there dog happens to get attacked?? Then they will be looking for "information" on "My Dog is leash Reactive while on leash" ... what can I do???"

Best advice for those who feel their dog needs to have Doggy Friends ... is known safe dogs only! Pro's don't screw around with other people and there dogs? Good enough for them, good enough for me.

My Boxer was "never attacked" in her ten years of life. That record is more important to me then her having "fun" at a Dog Park?? If one does their job right all a dog needs is "You."

So you know I tend to disagree with Cesar Millan and his rehabbing Dogs and off to the Dog Park you go dog??? Sure that's great for the rehabbed dog but what about those other dogs that are out there ... he does not know them!! Except you know it's TV and I have heard ... he does know those dogs???

At any rate ... seen I've mentioned "Dog Parks" and the limits of "Obedience Training" ... here's a couple of links.:

Leerburg | Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea


And the obedience thing ...

If one has not had a Dog with ... " uh serious "Behavioral Issues" then one has no ideal ... what is involved in rehabbing them?? That was me and while it was a butt kicking experience for awhile!! We got it done ... "Rocky and I" and in his ten years ... he never got a single correction for any untoward aggression towards people or, other dogs?? ANd this was despite my first stitches ever in an injury sustained in "Breaking up a Pack fight!" He had zero other dogs issues?? He did not live with those other dogs ... so he did not care! I certainly did not do other dogs with him and yet ... he was astonishingly good at changing other dogs behaviour!!!

Most likely he saved my "Butt" on one occasion when we got charged by an out of control Band Dawg!!! I told Rocky to Stay and I stepped in front of him ... as I don't play!!! But Rocky broke stay?? And at that point I turned my back on the charging Band Dawg and focused on Rocky ... WTH??? Rocky stepped up next to me sat down and smiled in the dogs face??? The Band Dawg ... stopped cold ...sat down and smiled back??? Problem solved ... I was stunned???

That dog gave me the clear impression, that he was intent in doing harm to my dog??? But Rocky saw something else?? And he realized ... that sometimes "Daddy does not make good choices??" ... so I got this! The charging down stopped his charge ... sat down and smiled back??? Rocky defused the "situation" by breaking command!

He only broke commands twice in his life and on each occasion ... I was glad he did! Cause the other time involved an out of site "Place Command and a "Toddler!!" And under carefully controlled conditions , Rocky my Wl GSD had proven that he did not like toddlers!!!

But you know ... "Crap Happens??" And I train dogs to make good choices?? Having them getting attacked by some tools uncontrolled cur in a "Dog Park" would mess that up! I don't have the time or patience for that kinda crap ... so I follow the Pro's and advise others to do the same ie "No Dog Parks

The good news ... is that "Dog Park" goers ... will not have an issue form people like me! Because you know save for "Proofing" you won't find us at a "Dog Park!" I did that at our local "Dog Park" and "Rocky "did great ... he did not care about other dogs ... a female GSD and a Basset hound ... were the only ones there. The GSd did butt sniff him, .. despite my mild objections and half ass block. The Basset however ... just tracked us ... like a ... well Basset hound!!! For me meeting one dog the GSD was more than enough!! I was fried! But you know ... your just not gonna loose a Basset in a confined Dog Park at a walking pace?? Rocky did keep to me he did not care about either dog?? But finally I had to stop and they met and ... no issues! :)

And as I said I think ... my dogs did not ever associate with unknown dogs. But when they did ... there was "no issue." The "dog Park" thing to create a dog that is safe around other dogs, is a myth!

My Rocky (formerly) H/A pack fighting monster ... was one of the best behaved WL GSD at the vet office! And if you don' know, as a general rule, GSD's in general ... tend to have a lot of "issues" at the Vet! Other dogs and poking and prodding by strangers, uh NO!" Typically ... "Muzzles" required! But Rocky ... uh no, no big deal! He was as good as my Struddell at the vet, who luv'd ... well everybody! :)

But rest assure that Luv, did not get him to be the dog he became to be. Nor did harsh corrections?? I walked him , trained Place and did Sit on the Dog! Pretty much that simple and ... PO as it happened??? "I say" ... anyone can do that! :)

But you know if an owner with an issue prone dog is gonna "Dog Park" that dog?? Yeah ... good luck with that.

People tend to think ... that "Dog Parks" are no big deal for the most part?? But there can be dangers there! Oh here a new member had her Boxer pup attacked in the Dog Park and was blinded!!! I did not want to be that guy ... so I was weighting issuing an warning???

And on FB another puppy Boxer got seriously mauled by a Husky!! 11,000 in reconstructive surgery to repair skull damage! No dog ...is going to do that kinda damage to my dog ..."Without getting Past ME!!"

I would get that dog off my mine and I will go after that owner!!! I just as soon not get involved with cops! So you know ... it's best for everyone if I stay clear of Dog Parks, and most likely I am not alone!

Many, Many years ago ... Bear Bear was shot and killed by an off duty cop, when he approached that tools dog!! Some Dog owners are uh "Wrapped to Tight??" Other dogs are not the only dangers in a "Dog Park" ...beware of the dogs owners also !! I don't need the freaking the freaking hassle, so me and my dogs just stay clear! No one here would have had an issue with any of my dogs?? They would meet by appointment only. :)

My Dogs safety comes first last and always! And as to what to do if your dog is attacked while on leash ... sigh ...yet again ... I got that covered!! Rocky yet again ... was for whatever a stray dog magnet???

17 "attempts" ... in neighborhoods walks!!! And only one dog managed to get past me ... when I screwed up!!! And that took, mistakes on my part (note I can't see in the dark??) and an EX MWD DD, Working Line GSD!! In the freaking dark!!!!! Insult to injury as it were!!

I was ticked, but I made adjustments! It's in my threads ... I usually, say I am not a Pro. But when it comes to defending one's dog in stray dog encounters, yeah ... I got that crap dialed in!! See my threads. :)
 
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