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Thanks Chip
yes, something of a Boxer club here based out of Honoluu. Haven't kept up with them since they went FaceBook only based, was active before the switch, even hosted here.
We had some AKC based training locally before covids. Kekoa graduated CGC, but we didn't continue. Typical Boxer fashion, he pretty much "forgot" everything on truck ride home after graduation.
LOL ... now that sound's like a Boxer!! WL GSD folk's have little time or patience for that kinda crap! But Boxer owner's or most likely Boxer's first owner's ... "par for the course??" :)

I was always the odd duck over there (Germanshepardforum) . The Boxer guy, and while I did entertain them with my stories of Struddell and her high speed, high temp, high desert Bunny chasing and other antic's. I kinda ticked them off ... cuz I never recommended a WL GSD, to uh anyone!! Even LE K9, officer ... had dog's that, let's see gnawed off one of there kid's leg's! A neighbor had to save the kid! And young dog's in training ... freaking "Door Bolting," and biting neighbor's in the ass!! And ... a K9 officer "CONVICTED FOR MANSLAUGHTER," when his dog killed a neighbor! Yeah posting that story got me "Banned," there ... a "Bridge To Far," as it were??

But hey "Some," K9 handler's ... aren't that good!" Bare that in mind if you ... happen to live next to one ... just saying. We did have one other member there ... that also had "Boxer's! She had four Boxer's and "someone," that knew her said all of her "Boxer's," were Human Aggressive?? I have no idea what the heck she was doing?? But I would "suspect??" All her dog's were Euro Boxer's???

I don't know ... but as far as I have seen ... you have to mess up pretty bad to have a Human Aggressive Boxer, much less four of them???

Aww well, I find life much simpler ... in "semi Boxer," world. My Bella (not my choice sigh cuz she is a girl) but you know ... if you don't have to "constantly stay on high alert," to keep your dog from, "Maiming or Killing," company life is a lot simpler! :)

Bella my new (Pit/Boxer) gets away with "murder!" She half ass "recall's in a distraction, free environment." But hey, I can let her off leash as long as I chose location's carefully! And she is a "Counter Surfer," kinda ... the cat bowl's. I feed the cat's on the table and after the cat's finish ... Bella look's at me to see if it's OK to get the bowl's?? I look back and sigh and ... "whatever??" So she say's, hey good enough!

My better half is not crazy about that "behavior!" But I do the training and so Bella look's to me and I say .... "whatever." With my other dog's ... I'd have never allowed that kinda crap! But you know after a decade of "serious always being on alert, and reasonable," for a ... dog that would/could hurt someone!! Bella is a relief. I had to train "Rocky," to make "Good Choice's," if modaddy was around?? And he still did great!! Wl GSD's are can be amazing dog's! But hey are a lot of work! :)

And "Rocky WLGSD," ... saved me from a dog attack, when I slipped on the ice while shielding him ... unbid. Before "choosing to step up! He did as he was told ...stay behind me dog! But when "Daddy," went down ... "Well this crap is new?? Perhaps I should make presence known!! LOL it was "Epic!" But that's another story. :)

So I got a lazy with Bella. She is great around the house and pretty easy to live with. But yeah ... I know dog's can do better! :)
 

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That's 100% BS if you're talking AKC show. There is no character testing. You could have a nerve bag and win a championship on looks... which intern would be studded out to produce more nerve bags!
The # of show Championships in a dogs line means zero to me. I'm looking for a dog that's not nervy, environmentally stable and can work within reason. The flavor of the year (color) means very little to me. The fact that his/her great grand sire was a show champ means very little.
Well I do follow what your saying. And "Temperament," and "Drive," mean's more to me than "conformation." But you have to be careful what you wish for. Show Quality Boxer's and Working Boxer's ... all come from the same pool, as it were.

If you split them up, AKA GSD world, you'd have two different group's of Boxer's. Or you know actually "Three," if like the GSD's folk ... the "White Boxer," folk's got organized and just left the group! IE if you look up WL GSD's ... you won't see "White GSD's." But if you look up "White GSD's," there they are.

And "Show line," GSD's ... are yet another group and for the most part ... no one has anything good to say about AL Show line GSD's, except there owner's! And in that subset of a subset you have West German Show line's. Those dog's are suppose to be pretty good in the "Working World," although not that common?? But no where near as "Nervy," as the American Show line's are reported to be.

It's a mess really, as I see it?? Show quality Boxer's and Working Boxer's (Euro's) granted all seem to come from the same "Boxer Pool," as it were??

I'm pretty sure you most likely see way more Boxer gone wrong then "we do??" But for the rest of us, any given Boxer seems, to be pretty similar to our own for the most part??

And for the most part ... "Boxer folk's ," aren't that well organized anyway?? I know I sighed a petition, that had been flowing around for year's that wanted to get "White Boxer," recognized for conformation! Yeah that never happened but American ... is the wrong country to make that change, back to Germany ... to start. :)
 

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All bets are off if you're talking Hawaii...lol
1) It's a bit tough to get outside blood on the island (so I'm told). On top of that, not the most hospitable temps for the breed. So, I have no doubt the breed has "adjusted" a bit to deal with the environment.
And not just Boxers LOL

I haven’t kept up with things but some history.
When we came here in early 2000s we brought our spayed female and our intact male, strong Southern US pedigree, nice characteristics etc. at one point I thought as you, limited outside blood. Absolutely no interest, seems anyone I spoke with had pre arranged pairing. That said, it was still a challenge to find any Boxer pups in the state. Our next female, Kalani was along those lines, dam was local from Oahu and Sire had been imported from Italy and she was result of that 1st mating. Our male passed before her 1st heat. Kinda mentally revved up and having started testing on Kalani, I brought in a male from one of the top breeders (then and currently) in New Zealand, also no rabies so importable at 3 months. I don’t recall ever being asked to breed him. The new pup, Makani came from Oahu and I understand both sire and dam are from Ohio.

As for adjusting to our climate... if I use both hands and count the number of days per year we get over 83° or under 60°F I’d have fingers left over. I do expect to average 140 inches rain per year although only 91.25 ytd.
 

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Interesting stuff Chip. Can’t say I’ve seen Human Aggressive boxers, but I did know a lady in the Boxer club that had a bad one. Closest we came was Pele. One time we put them in a Kennel so we could take a week off island. Paid extra for the “condo” for them to be together. Part of the deal was they would be taken out for exercise. So one day attendant lets them out for exercise and Pele tears after Flash in normal boxer fashion, nothing aggressive but something the attendant wasn’t familiar with and tried to intervene (whatever that means) and Pele nipped at her heels. They put her in own kennel rest of stay. I was PO’ed when I found out. Best I can describe what I believed happen was just having the dogs pent up and suddenly opening the door and they charge out. Not fighting, nothing serious, just pent up competition to get out first.

Guilty here of some “bad”. All the dogs and cats have been allowed on the bed. Whether they spend the night is their choice they have other sleeping areas. The dogs have a single loveseat in livingroom we refer to as theirs. Of course it is the magnet that draws visitors (pre covid). The cat of course feels he owns any piece of furniture he desires. No table or counter surfing allowed or tolerated by any. At the table is discouraged but Kekoa pushes the limit and has gotten away with it, time to clamp down with the new fella.
 

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Awe you gotta give the "Kennel," a bit of a break. If they have dealt with Boxer's before?? Typical Boxer behavior would most certainly scare the crap out of a ... "First Timer??"

They "bark" they spin, and they circle at high speed! And you know the "faster... the better!" If one had never seen that kinda "Crap," before ... it would most certainly look like a "Dog Fight???" And the heel nipping?? Well that just meant the attendant wanted to get into the game! :)

So they, "Errored," on the side of caution ... you can't really fault them for that?? And the bed thing ... LOL.

Yes, I do tend to mention it off and on?? But you'll note only with "Dog's," in conflict. The "Free Roaming in the house," and the off on and the furniture. Is no big deal as long as your dog's don't have issue's.

Stick with the "Breed," you know and for the most part ... those well sigh ... bad habit's ... work out fine.

I added "Counter Suffering, for the Cat Food Bowl's with Bella. So yeah my bad. But if a behavior is exceptionable to a "dog's," owner ... it's no big deal. Bella does look to me first before jumping up on the kitchen table?? I look at her and sigh ... "whatever." So hey ... "Good Enough," it's mine. :)

And the "Counter Suffering," is limited to the "Cat Food," dishes. And after my, mayor challenges with Rocky (my first WL GSD) pack fight's (no Boxer involvement) and my "Blood Running Cold, when he first met, company ie "WTH??" Counter Surfing for cat food dishes?? If she want's to do that ... I just don't care, my bad I suppose??

But hey ... as long as one stick's with "Boxer's," that get along well. One can pretty get along with all the ... "Should Not Behavior's," they chose!

As long as the dog is not a threat to people or doing a behavior that could get them killed! No big deal. :)

But ... add a different "breed," of Wl Breed to one's pack?? And all one's "Boxer," habit's will most likely end up in a "Butt Kicking," experience??

My big three ... Sleep's in the bed with the owner. Free Rome's, indoors and hop's on the furniture at will. Every time a threat with dog's in conflict come's up??

You'll see at least one if not all three of those "rule's," were broken?? Happens all the time. Now not so much here?? In Boxer world ... if you want to find yourself in deep ... crap?? Do the two girl's thing!

Boxer owner's don't really have any idea they have it! All your Boxer and experience and Bully Breed experience, won't meant crap ... if you switch breed's??

I was a Boxer and Bully Breed guy first and I was foster with my first "Big Furry Dog with a Pointy Face??" And that was the existent of my research?? Yeah ...it was butt kicking time?? And nope I have never seen met/seen a Human Aggressive Boxer either??

But I am sure there must be some out there?? But ... if one ventures into GSD World?? You won't have to dig to deep! And all one's "Boxer," well bad habit's will land one in "Deep Crap!"

But hey ... I'm just some guy on the web you know?? And got got kicked out, year's ago (nother story) but you know ... nothing has changed!

Issues, roll in daily! Delivery people, family member's, toddler's etc etc. People Issue's, roll in daily!

Honestly, us Boxer folk's have no idea how much we have it made! I have been gone from there for year's and nothing has changed. Check it out if you want.

And note, we don't have a whole dedicated to "Aggression Here!" Seriously bad Boxer's show up ... maybe 5 or 6 time's a year?? And dog on dog is usually two females!

GSD's you see way more than that ... every day! And yet pretty much alway's number three most popular dog in America??? Go figure???

Nonetheless I luv, WL GSD's also, they are awesome dog's when you get them right! And I would say that most likely the "people luv'ing," nature of "Boxer's," comes at a price??

If one is seriously committed to "Working a Boxer??" Well a Wl GSD would be easier. I saw it ... and I get it! I luv'd my Struddell but if you throw out the "people issue's," with my Wl GSD. He was a lot quicker and easier to train then was my Struddell!

Boxer's are no doubt great dog's! But in the "Working Dog World??" They are kinda different?? :)
 

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Awe you gotta give the "Kennel," a bit of a break. If they have dealt with Boxer's before?? Typical Boxer behavior would most certainly scare the crap out of a ... "First Timer??"

They "bark" they spin, and they circle at high speed! And you know the "faster... the better!" If one had never seen that kinda "Crap," before ... it would most certainly look like a "Dog Fight???" And the heel nipping?? Well that just meant the attendant wanted to get into the game! :)

So they, "Errored," on the side of caution ... you can't really fault them for that?? And the bed thing ... LOL.

Yes, I do tend to mention it off and on?? But you'll note only with "Dog's," in conflict. The "Free Roaming in the house," and the off on and the furniture. Is no big deal as long as your dog's don't have issue's.

Stick with the "Breed," you know and for the most part ... those well sigh ... bad habit's ... work out fine.

I added "Counter Suffering, for the Cat Food Bowl's with Bella. So yeah my bad. But if a behavior is exceptionable to a "dog's," owner ... it's no big deal. Bella does look to me first before jumping up on the kitchen table?? I look at her and sigh ... "whatever." So hey ... "Good Enough," it's mine. :)

And the "Counter Suffering," is limited to the "Cat Food," dishes. And after my, mayor challenges with Rocky (my first WL GSD) pack fight's (no Boxer involvement) and my "Blood Running Cold, when he first met, company ie "WTH??" Counter Surfing for cat food dishes?? If she want's to do that ... I just don't care, my bad I suppose??

But hey ... as long as one stick's with "Boxer's," that get along well. One can pretty get along with all the ... "Should Not Behavior's," they chose!

As long as the dog is not a threat to people or doing a behavior that could get them killed! No big deal. :)

But ... add a different "breed," of Wl Breed to one's pack?? And all one's "Boxer," habit's will most likely end up in a "Butt Kicking," experience??

My big three ... Sleep's in the bed with the owner. Free Rome's, indoors and hop's on the furniture at will. Every time a threat with dog's in conflict come's up??

You'll see at least one if not all three of those "rule's," were broken?? Happens all the time. Now not so much here?? In Boxer world ... if you want to find yourself in deep ... crap?? Do the two girl's thing!

Boxer owner's don't really have any idea they have it! All your Boxer and experience and Bully Breed experience, won't meant crap ... if you switch breed's??

I was a Boxer and Bully Breed guy first and I was foster with my first "Big Furry Dog with a Pointy Face??" And that was the existent of my research?? Yeah ...it was butt kicking time?? And nope I have never seen met/seen a Human Aggressive Boxer either??

But I am sure there must be some out there?? But ... if one ventures into GSD World?? You won't have to dig to deep! And all one's "Boxer," well bad habit's will land one in "Deep Crap!"

But hey ... I'm just some guy on the web you know?? And got got kicked out, year's ago (nother story) but you know ... nothing has changed!

Issues, roll in daily! Delivery people, family member's, toddler's etc etc. People Issue's, roll in daily!

Honestly, us Boxer folk's have no idea how much we have it made! I have been gone from there for year's and nothing has changed. Check it out if you want.

And note, we don't have a whole dedicated to "Aggression Here!" Seriously bad Boxer's show up ... maybe 5 or 6 time's a year?? And dog on dog is usually two females!

GSD's you see way more than that ... every day! And yet pretty much alway's number three most popular dog in America??? Go figure???

Nonetheless I luv, WL GSD's also, they are awesome dog's when you get them right! And I would say that most likely the "people luv'ing," nature of "Boxer's," comes at a price??

If one is seriously committed to "Working a Boxer??" Well a Wl GSD would be easier. I saw it ... and I get it! I luv'd my Struddell but if you throw out the "people issue's," with my Wl GSD. He was a lot quicker and easier to train then was my Struddell!

Boxer's are no doubt great dog's! But in the "Working Dog World??" They are kinda different?? :)
Well with working line dogs in general each of them have their own ticks. And everyone has a preference for example Belgian malinois owners talk about how inferior the GSD'd are. And Doberman guys have a list of reason why they think the doberman is superior when it come to sports like schutzhund usually people go with the big 4 that is to say the GSD, malinois, doberman, and rottie. Although other breed like the giant schnauzer, cane corso, beauceron, and boxer also regularly do extremely well. really it mostly comes down to the owners/handler and what they are used to. Malinois guys for example think that the breed has superior drive, rottie guys focus on the intellence as the are the smartest of the big 4 and they also not that out of the big for rotties have the most stopping power. I personally separate the sporting and real world working categories. When it comes to a sport like schutzhund i personally would go with a dutch shepherd but when it comes to a real world applicaton of a multi purpose working dog on my ranch the Beauceron for me is easily the top choice. They are better herders than say a GSD, larger than a malinois, more of an all weather coat than a Doberman and smaller and healthier than a rottie.
 

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Well with working line dogs in general each of them have their own ticks. And everyone has a preference for example Belgian malinois owners talk about how inferior the GSD'd are. And Doberman guys have a list of reason why they think the doberman is superior when it come to sports like schutzhund usually people go with the big 4 that is to say the GSD, malinois, doberman, and rottie. Although other breed like the giant schnauzer, cane corso, beauceron, and boxer also regularly do extremely well. really it mostly comes down to the owners/handler and what they are used to. Malinois guys for example think that the breed has superior drive, rottie guys focus on the intellence as the are the smartest of the big 4 and they also not that out of the big for rotties have the most stopping power. I personally separate the sporting and real world working categories. When it comes to a sport like schutzhund i personally would go with a dutch shepherd but when it comes to a real world applicaton of a multi purpose working dog on my ranch the Beauceron for me is easily the top choice. They are better herders than say a GSD, larger than a malinois, more of an all weather coat than a Doberman and smaller and healthier than a rottie.
Well that is fair enough. And LOL, well of course the MAl, folks would say how "superior there dog's are??? That's not really a surprise. :)

The Military has decided ... MAL's are there dog's of choice. The USAF has it's own MAL Breeding Program. And all Military K9's come from there. They list a couple of reason's for the switch, one being the Mal's, do better in the heat of Afghanistan course that would also seem to mean, they would do worst in the cold ... but whatever.

And I have heard, that professorial dog buyer's, state that they have to get WL GSD's from Europe cuz good dog's are hard to find in the State's? But for the Military ... no, it's not that hard. They switched (I believe) from WL GSD's to Mal's because of well (Pet People.) And American's tend to like "Big Dog's."

And a decade or two ago WL GSD's, maxed out at 75 lb's. A "medium sized dog." But today ... they are more like 90 to 95 lb's or larger. Now if you just walking your dog around the Park or going on outing and stuff. No big deal, but if your repelling from a chopper or down a cliff with a K9 strapped to your back?? It is a big deal for the troop. The military decided 75 lbs' max weight! And that is where the MAl's, weight in.

But ... whatever, LE does not do chopper drop's?? And if you see a "trooper," SUV around here that's say's. K9 on it, 9 time's out of 10 ... it's a WL GSD.

Now frankly, the "Temperament," of today's WL GSD, has changed??? And I and my dog ... would stay well the Hell, clear of them! But that's another story.

Dobbie's I don't much about?? But what I heard was that they don't do that great in IPO stuff, cuz they are not a "Grip and Hold Kinda Dog?? More about speed and snap and release and snap again. Then a grip and hang on kinda dog??

And you threw in a whole bunch of "Molosser Breed's!" :

And out of that group, the Boxer would be the best bet, if one were serious about the IPO, Mondo Ring Stuff.

And the, Rottie, since you seem you seem to mention endurance and stuff a lot. I'm just not picturing a Rottie, as being able to keep up with my Struddell, in High Desert, High Heat, Bunny Chasing??? But hey Struddell could not herd cattle ... so there is that. :)

But to your point ... here you go.

But I am just JQP, not a IPO guy. And pretty much day in day out, most people are not gonna run across a Dutchie, a Giant Schnauzer or a Beauceron???

I don't know those dog's ... but the "Dutchie," would be highly suspect to me ... for the unknowing?? Just saying.

And the other Molosser's aside from the "Rottie and the Boxer." They I would tend think they are better as PPD, then they would for the discipline required for IPO/Mondo or LE?? IPO/Mondo Ring is just not really there thing?? And if you add PPD as a thing ... you can also throw in APBT's, The American Bull Dog's and the American Band Dogge, in the group (which is not a breed but there are lot's of them out there ... if you know where to look.)

But likeing people, I would say among working breed's, that is a fairly unusal trait???

But I am just JQP and people like me "do and can," end up with WL GSD's or Mal's as "Foster's??" And you know "initialy," ... it's just a dog?? No big deal, but after a while it can quickly turn into WTH ?? Those dog's are "Not," Boxer's and if you "expect," a Wl GSD or a MAl to be the same with people ie "People are the Best thing since baked Bread!" One could be in for a world of hurt?? :)

Boxer people ... like real dog's! But real Dog's, are not all the same ... that's all I'm saying. :)
 

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That's 100% BS if you're talking AKC show. There is no character testing. You could have a nerve bag and win a championship on looks... which intern would be studded out to produce more nerve bags!
The # of show Championships in a dogs line means zero to me. I'm looking for a dog that's not nervy, environmentally stable and can work within reason. The flavor of the year (color) means very little to me. The fact that his/her great grand sire was a show champ means very little.
BTE, I do agree with you on the "Head" testing , they do prefer a astute sharp and attentive Dog while in the ring.Depends what you want,Maxl's Golden Boy was a little edgy and mildly aggressive, At that time that's what I was looking for. I received a bitch from his lines and she lived up to all my expectations. She made the best personal protection/guard dog ever. Not to say I did see some Boxers that should of Never made C/H . I've seen dogs that should of been put up on the 1st try, For instants judge Joe Gregory was working, and Alexandria Gav came into the ring with Maffy, He did not even give him a second look. I never recommend a dog.. I do recommend that looking for a pup To "do your home work with health and longevity of the lines" That way you will cut the probability's of a nervy dog and D/M and other illness,and Still it's not a guarantee. Me I know what I like, and I know what I'm looking at .
Enjoy the Breed.
 

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She made the best personal protection/guard dog ever. Not to say I did see some Boxers that should of Never made C/H .
Wait what?? You had a PPD, Boxer and a Female at that and never thought to mention it?? Or maybe I missed it??

It's not like that is a "Common thing on here??" Unless I have "always" missed it?? :)

I thought you only did show dog stuff, but that was just an "assumption" on my part, cuz you've never said that. :)

And Bte 2?? LOL, trust me I don't how much you know ... but he knows Boxer's and well most likely dog's in general. But he seems to like keeping stuff under his hat. And being less of a A-Hole, than I used to be (longer time member's would know) it's not for me to say.

But he does have at one WL Boxer (Euro) from working lines. And was gonna do "Sport Stuff," with him ... but at one year old or so, (I think??) HE said the dog's not quite ready yet?? And then he got a MAL also (I think) and the MAl, is progressing more rapidly. Which would be pretty much "Par for the course." But I could have something off ... don't know??
 

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There are breeders who breed working dogs for IPO, Schutzhund and Tracking. They charge over $2,300.00 for a dog easily. That would be a dog that a prospective buyer would have to sign a contract to neuter or spay at a certain age. A dog that obtained a ZTP, https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51f33cfbe4b086a9c87a4a61/t/52294a2be4b0bd156390f9e6/1378437675953/The+ZTP+in+Germany+is+required+of+all+boxer+to+be+bred-edited-1.pdf

would cost more. It would have future value for selective breeding, and to compete. There are guidelines connected with the Working Dog Federation, and ATIBOX about testing. Dogs work toward their BH which enables the judges a chance to disqualify a dog that shows aggression, excessive fear or poor stamina. The dog is supposed to be fit for the tasks, love what they are doing, and have a natural talent for the work. If you need to use harsh tactics, or you have a stressed dog, they are deemed not qualified to compete.

A trip to a veterinarian for an injury can cost well over $2,000.00. The injury would also mean pain and suffering for the dog, which is the main concern. Testing for health, confirmation, and temperament works to rule these factors out. There is still no guarantee that the dog won't get cancer, or other health problems. By making owners spay and neuter their puppies, and having more of their Boxers evaluated for ZTP status, they are making progress toward their goal of returning Boxers back to their original purpose. If you've ever seen a Boxer do advanced obedience, or IPO work, they are really focused, and happy. There's room for all kinds of dogs, and the expensive ones can still have issues.
 

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Chip, found a photo of my ppd/guard bitch @ about 7 months old . Many story's to tell. Out of Maxl's Golden boy "Conner" She lived up to all my expectations and then some.
 

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View attachment 136068

Chip, found a photo of my ppd/guard bitch @ about 7 months old . Many story's to tell. Out of Maxl's Golden boy "Conner" She lived up to all my expectations and then some.
Oh my she is gorgeous! And I'm gonna, guess based on "color," which is meaningless, and a very tiny sample. That as a puppy ... she was brilliant and relate-able to JQP, quick to potty train???
 
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